Lunger Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Thinking about getting a bolt action military rifle for side matches. Needs to be accurate and legal, so what should I look for? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Sorry. I missed the bolt acton part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, for GAF matches, I use my Krag with cast bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Legal under which regs? If you're referring to WR's "Bucky O'Neill" LR sidematch, I see they allow Mausers up to 1909. (e.g. 7.65mm Argentine Cavalry Carbine would be legal with the right bullets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Lunger, You could try and find an 03 Springfield or an 03-A3 , both in 30-06. The A3 is usually a lot less money and they are accurate. I have a Remington 03-A3 and with the right load and bullet it's a tack driver. Or maybe a more period correct (pre 1900) 30-40 Krag. There's 80 of them listed on Gunbroker right now. Of course and you already know you'd have to load lead only bullets. Side question for you. Are you coming back this July for the State shoot? It'll be just north of Great Falls about 5 miles. Camping room available and there's also 2 RV parks in town. Most of the people putting it on are also some of us who's done the last 3 at Simms. We're members of both clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Think I read it has to be wwII or older, and original battle sights...... or replica. I have an old mauser, but it is altered. Bolt handle is turned down, and a Williams reciever sight is on it. 7x57 I shot somewhere else that had a military rifle side match, but can't remember where. Guess I should've went and talked to them. It sounds fun anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Not sure yet, Charlie. I'll know more later on. Sure had a lot of fun the last couple years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How about a Remington-Keene, or a Lee Navy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You may be reading the reqmts for a Bolt Action Military rifle, as held at Wild Bunch matches sometimes. That simply is a bolt action, unmodified on the exterior, military issue sights. Made during or before WWII. Bolt action usually makes it after 1891 or so. Typical rifles seen at WB BAMM shoots: Springfield 03A3 Swedish Mausers German 98 Mausers Yugo 24 or 24/47 Mauser pattern Argentine 1909 Mausers You would rarely have to shoot over 150-200 yards in competition. A smooth, fast cycling gun that shoots 3 MOA will be good enough to win. Only the last two have I seen in the surplus channels recently. Most of the others are from collectors or shooters turning loose of something from their collection. Best shooting for the money right now - Yugo 24/47s. Best American - of course, the Springfield. Although the 1917 Enfield is plenty accurate, just not as cool. The tricky dog in the race, great shooter and minimal recoil - the Swedes. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How about a Remington-Keene, or a Lee Navy? Lee Navy would be cool, but they're scarce as eyebrows on an egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Unless you mold your projectiles, you must consider you bullet sources. Anything small than a .30 caliber. This cuts out guns like the 6mm Lee Navy or 6.5 Swede. The Krag would be my first thought. The Remington Keene and Winchester Hotchkiss are very cool .45/70s that are period correct but were never intended to be precision guns. An SMLE in .303 or 8mm Mauser could be very good and probably the least expensive choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The Mosin–Nagant is certainly a viable choice. When I play it is with a Schmidt Rubin model 1911 in 7.5x55. A Spanish mauser would give the ability to shoot .308 I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 We had a BAM side match at our annual last year. The rifle requirement was any Pre-WWII bolt action in any caliber except .308. It was a lot of fun. I used my Chilean Mauser in 7X57. The target was 200 yards away. Seven rounds, the first two didn't count. With the factory sights I was shooting over the target but I did hit the last two shots by aiming below the target. I found out Brownell's has a front sight that is taller so I have that for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No love for the SMLE? I have three made pre-WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Out of all these rifles listed, is there one that is typically more accurate than the rest? The thought of a 3 moa gun in my house won't work. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 A 6.5X55 Swede in good shape is the dream gun for BAM matches. Low recoil and extremely accurate. I don't have one but I have a 7X57 Venezuelan short rifle (1908 Mauser action, legal for BAM) in great shape that shoots like a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No love for the SMLE? I have three made pre-WWII. I have two myself. I like them but I can see the sights on the Mauser better than the Enfields and the 7X57 has less recoil than the Brit .303. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Out of all these rifles listed, is there one that is typically more accurate than the rest? The thought of a 3 moa gun in my house won't work. Lol! I can honestly say my 03-A3 is very accurate with the right ammo. You know me and even with my old eyes and the stock sights I shot a 3 round group at 100 yards about the size of a quarter. This wasn't with lead bullets, so you'd have to play with loads to find out what works for you. I tried the cheap Federal 150gr 1st. Did good to get a 5-6 inch group. Winchester 150 soft points, about a 3 inch group. Hornady 165gr SST's gave me the quarter size group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Well, looking over the thread, I see a lot of assumptions are being made over exactly what kind of a sidematch you are looking for a rifle for. Under current SASS Rules, the only existing side match where a millitary bolt action rifle *might* be legal would be in the rarely encountered "Open" Category of a Long Range Rifle sidematch. "Open Category (may be used at the match director’s option to include those firearms not covered by other official Long Range Categories)." Personally, I have never been to a shoot that has had an Open Category, but under the rules as written, this would be the only place where such a rifle could be used. The only other proviso would be that it would have to be of a pre-1900 design. There are a lot of things that fit that general grouping, but the 1903 Springfield is not one of them. However, the US Krag rifle is, and that is a very sweet and potentially very accurate rifle. So is the Mauser 98. Of course, this depends on someone doing an Open Category match where early bolt action rifles are allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Love my Krags and 03 and SMLE and Mausers but I really love my herd of Mosins and they are period correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Just for the record, at WR in the Buck O;Niell the 03 Springfield is good to go, the 03-A3 not so much. Not trying to insult any one but the 03 Springfield has the rear sight on the barrel, the 03 A3 on the receiver near the bolt handle, if you are not familiar with the difference.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Good thing you said that. That crosses that 03a3 off the list. Now i'm tore between the Springfield, mosin nagant, and the krag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I was pleasantly astounded by how good my Mosin Nagant shoots with silver tip surplus ammo and 64 yo eyes. I need to try some cast bullets thru it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 All of these old rifles will shoot cast bullets just fine at reduced velocities. You have to have the right size bullet for your barrel, though. There can be wide variations in groove diameter in military guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 One good thing about a Springfield is that new barrels are still available for a couple of hundred dollars, either 2 or 4 groove. So if it turns out that too-good-to-be find happens to have a shot out barrel, it's easy to solve that problem. It's a shame about the A3, but there are many, many clubs around shooting High Power with an antiques class where that sucker shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 ...my military bolt action is an M1903 Springfield in .30-06... ...it was my grandfather's rifle somehow came home with him and being the oldest grandson, I seemed to end up with it... ...I sent it to http://www.miltecharms.com/ - where it went through their restoration process - it is pristine and a nail driver at the distances that I shoot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Found a place that sells mosin nagant sniper rifles with the original scopes. I spose those aren't legal either??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yumpin yimminy ya, so dats a gud choice dat Sveedish mauser. Now yo gots me tinkin on dat... Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Would a stock 03-a3 work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Would a stock 03-a3 work? See post 21 in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Swedish Mauser Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Pete SASS #42168 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I shoot a 6.5x50 Arisaka my dad brought home after WWII. Very accurate but it has some tooling imperfections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Would a stock 03-a3 work? Most places yes, apparently at WR no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Lunger, If your talking about the BAMM (bolt action military match) held exclusive to WB side matches all bolt action of the worlds military without exterior modification as issued to the end of ww2 are legal as in 03a3's etc. really rifle familiarity and assuming a good condition rifle ,they are all competitive with each other especially if they are hand loaded to get rid of some horsepower. Mosins with a little work are competitive as are all the mausers which of course includes the 03 and 03a3's as GJ stated the mauser 24/47 and straight 24 along with Turks are all good deals in this day and age. 8mm is just as easy to load as any of the other military calibers. BAMM is one of the rare events that a under 100.00 rifle can compete on equal footing with a 2000.00 rifle and not be outgunned. Dusty Boddams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Lunger, one additional thought is most BAMM has a on the clock reload with winter range being the exception. So a rifle with stripper clips has the advantage over the krag. Dusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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