Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jess Money

Open Class

Recommended Posts

I enjoy reading all the threads about the different categories and classes. However, it seems there's a lot of angst being created among friends who have decidedly different points of view. That is the way it is and I'm sure it will continuelong after I'm gone.

 

However....

 

My grandfather was born in 1839 and served in the War Between the States in an Indiana Calvary Unit. After the war, and the loss of a leg, the family moved to Fayetteville, Arkansas where my dad was born in 1903 and my twin uncles in 1905. I was born in 1941 and I still recall the stories my dad and uncles delighted in telling us kids about grandpa, some of which were rather bawdy for such tender ears, but..also many of which had to do with rifle and pistol matches before and after the war. Now THOSE got my attention, even with my tender ears.

 

These matches were called Meat Shoots, Turkey Shoots or Bacon Shoots. The positions and distances varied for each firearm but every contestant shot against whomever entered the match. Nine to Ninety was the only "Class or Category" rule!

 

The interesting thing about these shoots is that there were NO categories or classes, age based, gender based or whatever. My favorite was the story of Yellow Sally, a freed slave from Ohio who was a farrier, a person who shoes horses. She plied her trade over several states and was known to be the best rifle shot in the Midwest. According to grandpa, when she came to your town to shoot for meat, if you were competing in that match, you'd better lick that front sight good to clear the dust bunnies because you really needed be damned good to beat her!

 

As it turned out, at a match in Fayetteville, a nurse from a local orphanage and Sally shot the same score, six times in a row. Grandpa said the score was determined with a caliper to determine the smallest area of bullet holes in a cedar shake target. Sally won the match but, because Sally admired the nurse's skill so much, she split the meat with the nurse. The nurse planned to give her share to the orphanage. When Sally heard this, she donated her half to the orphanage, also.

 

Yes, I know. This was a long way to get to my question.

 

So, why is there not a SASS category that's open to anyone and everyone who wants to compete with the very best shooters? In other words, an Open Class, one that states rules above .22 cal and no single barrel shotguns? This would not include the Wild Bunch matches.

 

Certainly you would have to have a starting point with age and experience, but any seasoned shooter of a predetermined cutoff age would be eligible. The Open Class would have to be based on a limited number of shooters at a State match or higher but that could be achieved by incorporating a cut-off for registration date. A predetermined number of posses with however many shooters in each posse could be another consideration for the category number competing at a given venue.

 

You could be a 74 year old grandmother wearing Grand Dame, cowgirl, B-Western or Steam Punk attire shooting .32 cal black powder cartridges. Rank Time prevails. Winners? 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Meaningful awards for sure.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cowboy is open to all ages with no costume or firearm restrictions other than those for basic sass competition

 

The only restriction to cowboy is that you cannot shoot gunfighter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some clubs already have an Open category. Some restrict winners of previous overall positions at club matches to an Open category for a certain period of time.

 

As we usually say, if you will talk it up, lead the charge and get it onto the Convention agenda from several respected Terr. Governors, you might make it happen.

 

But, Cowboy category is essentially a two-handed open category. And Gunfighter is essentially a two-revolvers-out open category. Women can shoot in one of those categories already if they so desire. Sometimes they do, bless their souls! If there were a "need" for an Open category, you would see lots of older excellent shooters sliding down the age scale and competing in Cowboy. (Like Hipshot #7 does when he shoots a match).

 

So, what you are asking about is already being done, except for competition between best Cowboy and best Gunfighter (which, normally, is Overall Winner, by the way).

 

An Open category sometimes is used to "protect" the middle of the pack shooters from the very best shooters winning all the Firsts. Well, I can take a whooping well enough that I do want to shoot against the very best when I go to matches, local or world. We don't need it for that purpose.

 

 

Thus, I see no need to fight the "no new category" battle to get something we essentially already have.

 

Good luck, GJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Thus, I see no need to fight the "no new category" battle to get something we essentially already have."

 

Not fighting anything here, just posing a question. The answers I received are quite defined and I stand corrected for my lack of knowledge. No hard feelings on my part.

 

However, I do believe it's questions like mine, and others, that allow others who might not know "Why" or "Why Not" to understand what is out there already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few clubs around here run a so called Open category.

 

One place calls it Most Wanted, another club calls it something else.

Most the top dogs get in it as all they are looking at is overall anyway.

And it frees up the normal categories for others to win or place in there category

that might not normally win.

Most times the top 5-6 overall in the match will be in the open category.

 

 

One was having anyone that won a category XXX amount of times in the year

move to there open category. Not sure what they called it.

But I don't like the idea of being forced into it. Should be voluntary.

 

Not sure SASS would want to do it as a official category. As pointed out.

Cowboy is open now except for GFer. Which that alone no longer makes it open.

 

But I have seen it work on the local club level.

And as I stated. It does free up the normal categories for others that might not

normally have a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There have been some good and worthy discussions on the Wire before with a good many well thoughtout post for both the pro and con of an OPEN category (SASS doesn't have 'classes').

 

I doubt I would join the Open category at a big match (state or above) but I have and would do it again, join the OPEN category at locals.

 

Yep, I got a good butt kickin in that Open category, but I would still jump in it again.

 

 

..........Widder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Al and Widder for the food for thought. I guess I was referring to grandpa's rendition of "classes". Mea culpa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Straight Arrow had mentioned.....our club in Indiana has a category titled "MASTER GUNFIGHTER". We designed it to give others a chance to grow and excel in their respective category. Those that continually win can go heads up against the other consistent category winners.

 

The category states any SASS legal guns and can shoot any stage any style from Duelist, Traditional to GF....sort of like B Western without the bling.

 

KK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I saw the subject line, I thought we were talking about SAA's with compensators and battery-powered optical sights... :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As Straight Arrow had mentioned.....our club in Indiana has a category titled "MASTER GUNFIGHTER". We designed it to give others a chance to grow and excel in their respective category. Those that continually win can go heads up against the other consistent category winners.

 

The category states any SASS legal guns and can shoot any stage any style from Duelist, Traditional to GF....sort of like B Western without the bling.

 

KK

I hope it is okay for me to reply, ;) as I could never shoot it. :ph34r:

 

I think it is a B) idea. It really sounds like an "open" category to me. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some really good shooters drop into the Cowboy category, which sometimes gives them better competition and sometimes discourages the chances of a shooter over the age of 17 year old to wrangler age category from doing well who is less talented or new to the sport. This can also occur at the levels above the cowboy category. Some of the clubs around AZ have a shootist category as an open category. In the world and national competitions, most categories are loaded with great shooters. I would like to see shooters in their own age categories. We have enough of them to meet everyones need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit to a large amount of confusion about the purpose of having both Cowboy and Wrangler.

 

Champion shooters easily fall into both of these... everywhere... constantly. And whichever they choose to shoot in, someone is unhappy.

 

I'm not really sure who is being protected from whom in the 36-48 range? Depending on where you are shooting that week the answer changes.

 

Are we protecting the newer young shooters from experienced Wranglers? OR are we protecting the Wranglers from the fast Cowboys?

 

Answer? Neither. It's just an obnoxious division that hammers a chisel right down the middle of the best shooters where no category choice is "right" no matter which one you pick. It splits up good rivalries between shooters that don't have any age-related speed issues...

 

Kind of like a certain fast kid that had to choose between Junior and Cowboy... and someone was up in arms either way.

 

If we can just officially define Cowboy as the sole true "open" category then we can all settle on ANY shooter being within the spirit and the letter of the rules if they decide to shoot it.

 

I doubt SASS will go for a full separate OPEN category as so many would use it that competition would be further reduced in the other already heavily diluted categories.

 

My personal preference would be for all categories to only have a single "senior" variant and that's it. Scrap everything else, and add FCGF and senior FCGF because the only shooting style variant we don't have in an otherwise sane list is "black powder gunfighter" (FCGF).

 

That would scrap a ton of excessive age categories which is just fine since we are already running headlong down the path of having senior duelist and senior gunfighter and senior everything else. GREAT! Let's just use that method across the board and make it like Golf. Regular Tour and Senior Tour. For age categories there would be Buckaroo, Junior, Cowboy, Senior Cowhand (or Senior Cowboy whatever you want to call it). That's IT. Then we'd ADD senior versions of all the shooting styles, except perhaps the costume categories depending on what the folks who actually shoot costume categories vote to do.

 

This provides the obvious solution to the OPEN problem. Cowboy and Senior Cowhand become the ONLY two age categories and by default definition they are OPEN categories. Open them up to any shooting style, I don't care if gunfighters want to shoot in it.

 

This really would solve both the open problem and the "too many categories" problem all at once and we don't have to touch the costume categories at all.

 

It would make the whole list easy to read and understand too.

 

Just my .02. Flame suit is on. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We already have the "OPEN :-)" category. It's called "OVERALL".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We already have the "OPEN :-)" category. It's called "OVERALL".

You beat me to it!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 14 year old daughter and I compete head to head. Don't matter what catagory we are each in. At the end of the day we look at the overall standings to see who had the better day. She be Young Gun, Girls and I am in Cowboy. We are splitting it pretty even at the monthly shoots. Got it handed to me in the State shoots this year.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cowboy is the open class.

Most if not all the shoots I go to have an overall winner trophy and list the Top 10 and Clean shooters.

Billy Badazz joked at the last one he's working on collecting enough trophys to make a chess set!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cowboy IS NOT a open category. NOT. IT IS NOT.

 

With GFer not being allowed. That alone makes it NOT a open category.

 

To be a truly Open category. It would have to allow GFer.

Cowboy is a ALMOST open category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I just add....Happy New Year. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never have been a fan of an OVERALL award.

It takes away from the importance of having categories. All which have restrictions of one kind or another.

Shoot in the age category/bracket God gave you, or pick your smoky preference, or pick your shooting style, or dress up fancy, then you can be proud of where you placed in YOUR category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never have been a fan of an OVERALL award.

It takes away from the importance of having categories. All which have restrictions of one kind or another.

Shoot in the age category/bracket God gave you, or pick your smoky preference, or pick your shooting style, or dress up fancy, then you can be proud of where you placed in YOUR category.

There is only one Winner....The Champion is the Top Dog Individual or Team of whatever sport you are talking about.

 

Everything else is a Bridesmaid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is only one Winner....The Champion is the Top Dog Individual or Team of whatever sport you are talking about.

 

Everything else is a Bridesmaid.

 

 

Some of us like being bridesmaids!

 

:D:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope it is okay for me to reply, ;) as I could never shoot it. :ph34r:

 

I think it is a B) idea. It really sounds like an "open" category to me. :)

Why wouldn't it be ok. Allie you can respond to anything I say....and yes it is an open category....we were just ahead of times as we've been shooting it for quite some time and we just named it Master GF....we could have called it "open" as well.

 

Happy New Year.

 

KK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS I get the impression that some folks think that if you cannot or do not shoot a category, you should keep out of the discussion. I believe that as a TG, I am encouraged by my club to keep up with and participate in discussions about a variety of issues. If I state an opinion, I like to know what the opposing side says about it. I have been known to and am proud to write that I have changed my mind about issues after reading/hearing others' views. For example, I signed the petition to get the category name changed from Grand Dame to Golden Girls. I still think it should be on the agenda and changed if enough ladies wish it to happen. However, I have decided that I prefer the more historic and dignified Grand Dame designation. :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is only one Winner....The Champion is the Top Dog Individual or Team of whatever sport you are talking about.

 

Everything else is a Bridesmaid.

That is why I think they deserve special recognition/award. That person chose their category and sometimes the unexpected happens, which makes it really special. I'm thinking of the annual match that Hubby won shooting Duelist and the EOT that Bud won as a Junior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never have been a fan of an OVERALL award.

It takes away from the importance of having categories. All which have restrictions of one kind or another.

Shoot in the age category/bracket God gave you, or pick your smoky preference, or pick your shooting style, or dress up fancy, then you can be proud of where you placed in YOUR category.

 

I on the other hand can't stand it when a shoot doesn't recognize the overall winner . How do you have a competition and not award the very best that was there . That takes nothing away from the shooter that won CC with its limits on equipment and shooting style .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I on the other hand can't stand it when a shoot doesn't recognize the overall winner . How do you have a competition and not award the very best that was there . That takes nothing away from the shooter that won CC with its limits on equipment and shooting style .

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I on the other hand can't stand it when a shoot doesn't recognize the overall winner . How do you have a competition and not award the very best that was there . That takes nothing away from the shooter that won CC with its limits on equipment and shooting style .

We heap tons of praise on the overall winner, while at the same time many shooters are handicapped by shooting style or equipment. Is it really a measure of achievement that a two handed shooter with no equipment limitations compete with a person shooting Frontiersman.

My hat is off to those that can shoot a 12 stage match under 200 seconds, but they picked there category and won a award in it. There achievement is no more grand than that Frontiersman fighting smoke and fire all the way. That two handed overall award winner didn't compete against that Frontiersman. He avoided the category and shot something a lot easier.

 

Or give out a Category winner award and then awards to the top 10% percent shooters. That would certainly simplify the Match Directors job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do away with overall awards all you want.

 

BUT.

 

The first thing everyone is going to do as soon as the scores are posted is look to see WHO WON OVERALL..

 

 

SO.

 

You might as well announce it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do away with overall awards all you want.

 

BUT.

 

The first thing everyone is going to do as soon as the scores are posted is look to see WHO WON OVERALL..

 

 

SO.

 

You might as well announce it.

+1000

 

It's part of our American Culture. We always want to know who flew the fastest, jumped the highest,

went the furtherest...etc.

 

It doesn't take anything away from the category winners.

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We heap tons of praise on the overall winner, while at the same time many shooters are handicapped by shooting style or equipment. Is it really a measure of achievement that a two handed shooter with no equipment limitations compete with a person shooting Frontiersman.

My hat is off to those that can shoot a 12 stage match under 200 seconds, but they picked there category and won a award in it. There achievement is no more grand than that Frontiersman fighting smoke and fire all the way. That two handed overall award winner didn't compete against that Frontiersman. He avoided the category and shot something a lot easier.

 

Or give out a Category winner award and then awards to the top 10% percent shooters. That would certainly simplify the Match Directors job.

On a like note, could that same Frontiersman beat that overall shooting in the unrestricted category? Choose the category that best suits you. Have fun doing what you do....and give the overall his due. The funny thing is that the overall shooter could be just as effective in almost any category.

 

Prime example is Dang it Dan....two handed or gunfighter....equally as dangerous....and we could name many others. Question? Do you want to have Deuce shootin BP against you? As others have said, they shoot in a category, but it's the overall that really matters to the top shooters.

 

Just sayin.

 

KK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a shoot every month on the first wednesday at Firelands. We've been doing this about close to 10 years. It was my idea to come up with a shoot to just truly just have fun and it's worked. We get 25-30 shooters, not bad for the middle of the week!! NO CATEGORIES!!!You can shoot a different style on each of the 5 stages. WB and Josey Wales and Plainsman are okay too! We score as normal and do a Top Ten. It's only 5 bucks and it's a ball!!

 

Rye, we don't need no stinkin' categories, Miles :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We heap tons of praise on the overall winner, while at the same time many shooters are handicapped by shooting style or equipment. Is it really a measure of achievement that a two handed shooter with no equipment limitations compete with a person shooting Frontiersman.

My hat is off to those that can shoot a 12 stage match under 200 seconds, but they picked there category and won a award in it. There achievement is no more grand than that Frontiersman fighting smoke and fire all the way. That two handed overall award winner didn't compete against that Frontiersman. He avoided the category and shot something a lot easier.

 

Or give out a Category winner award and then awards to the top 10% percent shooters. That would certainly simplify the Match Directors job.

If you think that all you have to do is shoot two handed and use whatever equipment you want to win an overall you are mistaken. It takes lots of hard work that many including myself aren't willing to do. Then it also takes a certain amount of God given talent to be the very best. People that shoot frontiersman aren't trying to win the overall and they are ok with it or they wouldn't be shooting cap and ball. I suggest you use whatever equipment and style of shooting at your reginal this year and go for the overall. Then maybe you'll appreciate what these winners accomplished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.