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Branchwater Jack SASS #88854

Rule change?

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The simple addition of the word "prior" solves everything.

 

No ones safety is compromised - it is easy to understand and enforce, it brings the rule into compliance with what was voted on by the clubs, TG's and

what was advertised as being the rule by the Rule Committee representatives and the CEO of the company.

 

Have you read the edits in the 19.6 version of the RO1?

 

THAT is where the conflicts exist...and they are NOT consistent with those post-Summit clarifications that we've been operating under for the past 6 months...what was "advertised as being the rule..."

Some of those have been declared "in error" ( see post #1 )

and the current verbiage is what we have been attempting to get in line with regard to the INTENT of the CC editorial and subsequent statements from the WB.

(based on statements made at the Summit, but added to neither the agenda item prior to the ballot, nor to the rule change(s) themselves)

 

IMO...maybe at this point it would be best to go full reverse & back to square one.

(to the pre-Summit original MSV verbiage without the subjectivity involved)...

 

but what do I know.

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IMO...maybe at this point it would be best to go full reverse & back to square one.

(to the pre-Summit original MSV verbiage without the subjectivity involved)...

 

but what do I know.

 

 

+1

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remember my post, "I knew what I was feeling, but what was I thinking?" I don't know who all had a hand in this mess, but this sure applies...

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+2. KISS. :unsure:

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Have you read the edits in the 19.6 version of the RO1?

 

THAT is where the conflicts exist...and they are NOT consistent with those post-Summit clarifications that we've been operating under for the past 6 months...what was "advertised as being the rule..."

Some of those have been declared "in error" ( see post #1 )

and the current verbiage is what we have been attempting to get in line with regard to the INTENT of the CC editorial and subsequent statements from the WB.

(based on statements made at the Summit, but added to neither the agenda item prior to the ballot, nor to the rule change(s) themselves)

 

IMO...maybe at this point it would be best to go full reverse & back to square one.

(to the pre-Summit original MSV verbiage without the subjectivity involved)...

 

but what do I know.

 

I had read the edits - but because it was receiving so much press AND clarifications were coming from the RO Committee and the CEO - I did not feel the need to personally parse every word and phrase (my error apparently)

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I had read the edits - but because it was receiving so much press AND clarifications were coming from the RO Committee and the CEO - I did not feel the need to personally parse every word and phrase (my error apparently)

 

Which clarifications from the ROC are you referring to? (excuse the grammatical error)

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PWB , I did my best to answer the pertinent questions on post 267 so that we could talk about Stan's scenarios . I feel he did a good job of listing many possibilities that could come up in the near future . Answers on this forum could prove useful at a match . Thanks for your help .

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I try very hard to stay out of stuff like this and I do mean very hard. BUT why in Sam Heck change something right before the biggest and most important match of the year???? Just doesn't make sense for all this confusion .

Unless someone from the "Powers that Be" makes it very very clear what the NEW ruling is "MY" posse at EOT will run it as voted on at the TG summit. I know Every One has their own take for what the NEW ruling should be, but I'm simple and I want it spelled out by the Big Bosses !!

+ 1.... As a PM of many EOTs and WRs, I find this confusing and down right frustrating,but maybe its just me. I did think all worked fine with rule used at WR. Perhaps I am just getting a little old to TO, let alone PM. I felt rule (per WR) was to help out the TO but here we are at this mess.

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+ 1.... As a PM of many EOTs and WRs, I find this confusing and down right frustrating,but maybe its just me. I did think all worked fine with rule used at WR. Perhaps I am just getting a little old to TO, let alone PM. I felt rule (per WR) was to help out the TO but here we are at this mess.

+1. I'm a posse marshal at EOT and am equally frustrated. We would be better off going back to the pre-convention rule than trying to muddle through with the "new" new rule. At least under the old rule everyone knew what was meant when a TO or spotter started yelling -- LEVER! LEVER!! LEVER!!!

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+1. I'm a posse marshal at EOT and am equally frustrated. We would be better off going back to the pre-convention rule than trying to muddle through with the "new" new rule. At least under the old rule everyone knew what was meant when a TO or spotter started yelling -- LEVER! LEVER!! LEVER!!!

Can I get an AMEN!! :)

 

J :ph34r: R-E

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How does this really affect anything other then SxS's going back vertically?

 

I mean...from a practical standpoint...

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How does this really affect anything other then SxS's going back vertically?

 

I mean...from a practical standpoint...

 

I shoot a double and this rule (old , new and newest) has never come into play . In this area vertical staging is very rare . I'm more interested in what is considered "discarded" and if we get 2 MSVs for leaving a spent round on the carrier . I think at this point the old rule was better . And I guess the biggest problem is how are 30 some odd PM gonna run a posse when nobody seems to agree on the rules .

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How does this really affect anything other then SxS's going back vertically?

 

I mean...from a practical standpoint...

 

There are a number of related statements beyond allowing a SxS to be closed on purpose for that purpose that haven't yet been made public.

The ROC & WB are working on verbiage that will clarify those additional modifications to what was once SOP in order to update the rules to express the INTENT of what many understood to be behind the TG Summit agenda item.

Those will NOT be posted (at least by the ROC) until those other issues are resolved...one way or the other.

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It is clear chaos exists at high levels in SASS. A couple weeks ago the SASS CEO posted on this forum that the Feb 2014 Handbooks were the final rules for EOT. Specifically no last minute changes would be made. The CEO even quoted those open/closed long gun rules that apply. The CEO emphasized the TG and RO role in rule making. The CEO further stated rules are not made via CC editorials.

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I'm not a word guy...as many of y'all know. But there is no reason for a person to open their rifle, eject the last round (whether it is or not the last round is not important for this discussion), and then purposely close it. That makes no sense...so...I'm back to the gun is discarded once it's opened and assumed empty because the shooter is by their action showing they are complete with the shooting string.

 

I'm sure I'm not stating my thoughts very well...

 

Phantom

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I'm not a word guy...as many of y'all know. But there is no reason for a person to open their rifle, eject the last round (whether it is or not the last round is not important for this discussion), and then purposely close it. That makes no sense...so...I'm back to the gun is discarded once it's opened and assumed empty because the shooter is by their action showing they are complete with the shooting string.

 

I'm sure I'm not stating my thoughts very well...

 

Phantom

It does make sense and in some instances can actually be advantageous.

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It is clear chaos exists at high levels in SASS. A couple weeks ago the SASS CEO posted on this forum that the Feb 2014 Handbooks were the final rules for EOT. Specifically no last minute changes would be made. The CEO even quoted those open/closed long gun rules that apply. The CEO emphasized the TG and RO role in rule making. The CEO further stated rules are not made via CC editorials.

At this point...who cares?

 

We have an issue with a rule, it will be fixed...let's not start point fingers and looking for someone to lynch. That really is not productive at this point other then to indicate some kind of dissatisfaction with SASS.

 

Phantom

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This fish just stinks!!

The new rule (not to be confused with the new, new rule) was simple, safe and much easier on the TO.

As far as I'm concerned 80% of TGs' and the ROC have waisted their, your and my time.

Here's how its going to sound when a TG takes the time, to explain to his club a proposed rule this winter......blah, blah, blah, blah, a no vote may or may not mean no and a yes vote may or may not mean yes.

Because we all know your vote is really just to make you feel as if you have an vote????

Oh ya, what is discarded:)

Regards,

Ringer

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It does make sense and in some instances can actually be advantageous.

Not that I'm very smart...at this game...but please do tell how taking the time to close your lever after completion of the rifle string makes for a more efficient stage.

 

Phantom

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Not that I'm very smart...at this game...but please do tell how taking the time to close your lever after completion of the rifle string makes for a more efficient stage.

 

Phantom

Shoot off: Gun order is rifle, pistol, shotgun, move back to rifle and reload to engage crossover. A '73 is much easier to reload with the lever closed and laying on it's left side on a table than through the top on it's way to your shoulder. I will admit that it is not something that we do every weekend but still the possibility exists.

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WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? :ph34r:

 

Oh, wait...sorry... different crisis.... ;)

 

 

There are a number of related statements beyond allowing a SxS to be closed on purpose for that purpose that haven't yet been made public.

The ROC & WB are working on verbiage that will clarify those additional modifications to what was once SOP in order to update the rules to express the INTENT of what many understood to be behind the TG Summit agenda item.

Those will NOT be posted (at least by the ROC) until those other issues are resolved...one way or the other.

 

HUH? are you channeling Jay Carney? ;)

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Shoot off: Gun order is rifle, pistol, shotgun, move back to rifle and reload to engage crossover. A '73 is much easier to reload with the lever closed and laying on it's left side on a table than through the top on it's way to your shoulder. I will admit that it is not something that we do every weekend but still the possibility exists.

well there ya go...in a shoot off...

 

Okay.

 

;)

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or use a marlin and just plop it in the hole!!

 

you almost have to laugh at all this.... goodness gracious!!

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Creeker's suggested revision is easy to understand and enforce, it achieves the intent of the TG vote, supports the interpretation of the ROC........and contradicts an edict from he who cannot be named, therefore it will never be adopted.

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This fish just stinks!!

The new rule (not to be confused with the new, new rule) was simple, safe and much easier on the TO.

 

As far as I'm concerned 80% of TGs' and the ROC have waisted their, your and my time.

 

Here's how its going to sound when a TG takes the time, to explain to his club a proposed rule this winter......blah, blah, blah, blah, a no vote may or may not mean no and a yes vote may or may not mean yes.

Because we all know your vote is really just to make you feel as if you have an vote????

Oh ya, what is discarded:)

Regards,

Ringer

As I recall OUR CLUB voted on levers being closed NOT ACTIONS BEING CLOSED!!

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WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? :ph34r:

 

Oh, wait...sorry... different crisis.... ;)

 

 

HUH? are you channeling Jay Carney? ;)

 

I don't need THIS crap. :angry:

 

I'll send in a request to the moderators to delete any commentary I've made to try to alleviate the discontent without actually taking everyone on a public tour of the sausage factory.

 

<_<

 

:P

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As I recall OUR CLUB voted on levers being closed NOT ACTIONS BEING CLOSED!!

 

Then your club was apparently misinformed regarding the agenda item...all long guns do NOT have levers.

Please refer to the definitions for the ACTIONS OPEN/CLOSED in the RO1 "Glossary of Terms" p.29

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or use a marlin and just plop it in the hole!!

 

you almost have to laugh at all this.... goodness gracious!!

 

...almost...but not quite.

 

Currently dealing with multiple threads on four separate "Wires"...plus constant email & PM correspondence with various members of the ROC & WB (as well as RO Instructors, MD's and TG's plus rank & file members...three phone calls just today + face-to-face conversations over the weekend (at a non-shooting venue)...even trying to perform damage control on Face Book.

 

This while simultaneously returning to regular w**k @ ¾ time and attempting to get medically stabilized so I can attend the meetings, work with T.A. and crew as a Range Master, and actually compete in FCGF category at EoT.

 

So...if my "customer service" skills (such as they are) go haywire once in a while...well...that's just too bad.

 

 

:ph34r:

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...almost...but not quite.

 

Currently dealing with multiple threads on four separate "Wires"...plus constant email & PM correspondence with various members of the ROC & WB (as well as RO Instructors, MD's and TG's plus rank & file members...three phone calls just today + face-to-face conversations over the weekend (at a non-shooting venue)...even trying to perform damage control on Face Book.

 

This while simultaneously returning to regular w**k @ ¾ time and attempting to get medically stabilized so I can attend the meetings, work with T.A. and crew as a Range Master, and actually compete in FCGF category at EoT.

 

So...if my "customer service" skills (such as they are) go haywire once in a while...well...that's just too bad.

 

 

:ph34r:

You need a vacation! And thanks for doing what you do!

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You need a vacation! And thanks for doing what you do!

 

I took my "vacation" last summer....first match in September after release was one of the ONLY ones that I'm not allowed to w**k (other than regular, non-T/O posse chores).

 

Thanks to Mudflat Mike!

 

;)

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We'll heck, come on down to the Western a Regional at Chorro and we will not let you w**k here either. I will keep the keys to your computer safe too.

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We'll heck, come on down to the Western a Regional at Chorro and we will not let you w**k here either. I will keep the keys to your computer safe too.

 

Last road trip (over the past weekend) I actually left the Surface unit at the Wolf Den...now I can't seem to find the charging unit.

:huh:

 

My compañera (and friends) threatened to hamstring me if I tried to sneak down to the WiFi/Internet kiosk in the lobby.

^_^

 

No withdrawal symptoms at all...but I finally got the fiber-optic installed to replace the DSL here @ home yesterday...guaranteed to enable me to PO folks 3x faster than before!!

 

;)

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How does this really affect anything other then SxS's going back vertically?

 

I mean...from a practical standpoint...

How about if you lay a rifle down that is not cleared you will get 2 MSVs at a minimum.

 

Stan

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Boy you guys are sure long winded!!! 9 pages??? Really?? Has anyone actually learned anything from this??? I didn't! :P

 

 

Rye

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...almost...but not quite.

 

Currently dealing with multiple threads on four separate "Wires"...plus constant email & PM correspondence with various members of the ROC & WB (as well as RO Instructors, MD's and TG's plus rank & file members...three phone calls just today + face-to-face conversations over the weekend (at a non-shooting venue)...even trying to perform damage control on Face Book.

 

This while simultaneously returning to regular w**k @ ¾ time and attempting to get medically stabilized so I can attend the meetings, work with T.A. and crew as a Range Master, and actually compete in FCGF category at EoT.

 

So...if my "customer service" skills (such as they are) go haywire once in a while...well...that's just too bad.

 

 

:ph34r:

oh I can thoroughly imagine what your going through....thas why I haven't called, and kept pms to a minimum....

 

I can only imagine what the inside story is......

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