Dillon 650 rejects

[Noah Cash]

Grizz's post about his 650 trials and tribulations got me to thinking.....

 

I loaded up 700 rounds of .45 last night and am in the process of dropping each and every one in a case guage to ensure reliability. With that many I have found a primer or two that has flipped over and wound up backwards in the case and one or two that was not pressed in completely. Nothing I can't live with but that is why I run the ammo through a case guage.

 

What kind of reject rate do you folks have with the 650? I guess mine is in the 3 or 4 per 1000 or maybe a tad bit above that. Is that the norm?

 

 

The only other thing I know I probably need to correct is the bit of shake in the table the press is mounted to. I do know they need to be SOLIDLY mounted.

KB

[Goody, SASS #26190]

3 or 4 per thousand? .3 -.4 percent error? I'd say that's pretty good.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I know on the Dillon Square Deal, the primer cup height can be adjusted to almost eliminate the flipped primer problem. I imagine that the 650 is probably the same way. Call Dillon and they can walk you through the adjustment process.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Pretty darn good reject rate.

 

Primer flipping in the 650 might be due to a dirty primer feed wheel not advancing exactly underneath the priming station. Or, the shell plate not advancing cleanly (not snapping into it's locator detent).

 

I get only about 1 primer flipped per 3 or 4 thousand cases loaded on my 650 running .38 specials. I get many more problems with neck splits developing during case mouth expanding/bullet seating - maybe 2 per hundred.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cat Brules]

Grizz's post about his 650 trials and tribulations got me to thinking.....

 

I loaded up 700 rounds of .45 last night and am in the process of dropping each and every one in a case guage to ensure reliability. With that many I have found a primer or two that has flipped over and wound up backwards in the case and one or two that was not pressed in completely. Nothing I can't live with but that is why I run the ammo through a case guage.

 

What kind of reject rate do you folks have with the 650? I guess mine is in the 3 or 4 per 1000 or maybe a tad bit above that. Is that the norm?

 

 

The only other thing I know I probably need to correct is the bit of shake in the table the press is mounted to. I do know they need to be SOLIDLY mounted.

KB

 

Even if it is DOUBLE that rate ... let's say 8 per thousand, that is STILL less than one (1) percent!!!

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I load almost everyday.

The primers flipping over on a 650 is due to misalignment of the shell plate to the primer punch.

As said about, either the shell plate is stopping over the primer punch. This is controlled by the plastic indexing cam on the right side of the press under the shell plate.

 

The primer feed wheel may be over indexing or under index. This would be just a little off. If it's off by a lot then the punch will not come up because of hitting the underside of the shell plate. This is adjusted by the metal cam above the top of the primer feed wheel.

 

Then there's the primer punch alignment to the shell plate openings. This is adjusted by loosing the two Allen cap screw and visual aligning. I understand Dillon has a tool for this. But visually takes a second or two.

 

Now to the point I was going to make. I load every day so I can actually feel the difference when a primer is going in correct of upside down. Upside down the primers go in so much easier due to the rounded edges going in to the case primer pocket first.

 

Over time I have actually gotten use to dragging my thumb on the shell plate as it rotates. I know when the shell plate is aligned. If it doesn't I can move it forward or backwards just a little to line things up.

 

But I do have rejects.

1. Cracked cases. Customers don't sort before delivering to me.

2. reject is cases not lined up going in to sizing die.

3. Primers side ways. Not completely upside down.

4. Upside down primers.

5. Rocks inside cases that do not come up during thumbing. Occasional .22 case. in .38s and .32 inside large calibers.

 

 

My reject rate is about 5% to 8% as well. I reloaded an average of 2000 to 3000 per morning.

I only work in the shop 3 to 4 hours a day. I don't like working afternoons.

[Fordyce Beals]

Cliff Hanger said:

 

"But I do have rejects.

 

2. reject is cases not lined up going in to sizing die.

.

4. Upside down primers."

 

I have one more failure mode, high primer not seated completely.

 

I agree completely with: " My reject rate is about 5% to 8% as well." Some times better.

 

Fordyce

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

I've only loaded 8-10 thousand on my 650 but the only rejects have been from split cases and only a few of those. No flipped primers or bulged cases

[Roger Rapid]

I experienced some flipped-over primers and thought that they may have flipped over in the tube when I inverted the tube to transfer them into the primer hopper. I found that if I use the plastic rod (the primer alarm rod) to push the primers up in the tube - holding the tube vertically the way I pick up the primers - and then invert the tube with the rod in place, and allow the rod to stay seated on top of the primers when I pull the pin, there is no way for the primers to flip over in the tube. I started doing this about 2,000 rounds ago and I've not had a single flipped primer since. RR

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I can sometimes watch a primer turn over as it slides down the feed tube from the loading tube. Usually near the last of the loading tube. When I'm feeling anal, I'll check each primer before seating when I get near the 100 mark. If not, I knock the round apart and rebuild it.

 

1 to 3 /1,000 is average.

 

CR

[Krazy Kajun]

I experienced some flipped-over primers and thought that they may have flipped over in the tube when I inverted the tube to transfer them into the primer hopper. I found that if I use the plastic rod (the primer alarm rod) to push the primers up in the tube - holding the tube vertically the way I pick up the primers - and then invert the tube with the rod in place, and allow the rod to stay seated on top of the primers when I pull the pin, there is no way for the primers to flip over in the tube. I started doing this about 2,000 rounds ago and I've not had a single flipped primer since. RR

Interesting method...never thought of that.

 

Question, with the rod in place on top of the tube do you have to hold the rod in place or is there remaining depth in the tube for the rod to stand up on its own. I do realize that I can just put a reduced amount (not the full 100) in the tube and can get more depth but I'm just wondering if you can get all 100 in there and still have the rod to stand up on its own. I only got two hands....one to hold the tube and the other to pull the pin.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

I experienced some flipped-over primers and thought that they may have flipped over in the tube when I inverted the tube to transfer them into the primer hopper. I found that if I use the plastic rod (the primer alarm rod) to push the primers up in the tube - holding the tube vertically the way I pick up the primers - and then invert the tube with the rod in place, and allow the rod to stay seated on top of the primers when I pull the pin, there is no way for the primers to flip over in the tube. I started doing this about 2,000 rounds ago and I've not had a single flipped primer since. RR

You might be on to something. Like I posted above, I've never had a flipped primer. I also don't invert my primer tubes since I use a primer tube filler and store loaded tubes vertically.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

High primers can be caused by

1. Not seating with enough pressure when the press handle is all the way up. Careful. You can crush them.

2. The punch is not screwed in far enough to seat the primers to the correct depth. The adjustment is under the shell plate. I find it very difficult to adjust. Reason for having two presses. Small and large primers.

---------

The primer feed tube will hold more than 100 primers. Maybe 114 small and for 110 large.

Once the plastic rod that puts pressure on the primers hits the alarm, there is no pressure on the primers from the rod but there are still several primers in the feed tube. The flip occurs, not in the feed tube but as the primer is lifted by the primer punch and the primer cup catches and edge on the shell plate.

 

Also if the primer is upside down in the filler tube and transferred to the feed tube. I do find that a primer that is upside down in the feed tube will sometime hang up and stop up the feed tube requiring disassembling the primer feed system and pushing the stuck primer out of the tube. Sometimes they are so stuck that the tube is damaged. I have had to replace several tubes as they are very thin aluminum and gouge easily.

 

 

It is important to go slow when you first setup your press and make sure every station is adjusted correctly. Start by running only one case all the way around. Then another and another until all is working well. Then run several cases filling the complete shell plate. Some times if there is no case on station 4, station 1 will not be completely lined up. The case will be leaning out from the center a little. With a case in station 4 the shell plate is pushed down before the case at station one reach the die.

----------

There is a lot going on all at once on a 650 press. Any number of things can be out of adjustment. And any one of them can cause issues.

 

Once all is setup, it is not hard at all to produce 600 to 800 rounds an hour over a complete session.

 

I normally have to change calibers on the same press during any given day. If I could just talk all my customers in to the same caliber and bullet style.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I make sure all the rocks are removed.......

I deprime and resize.

I wash the cases and ultrasonic clean them

I tumble them dry in walnut shells

I inspect and remove any media from the cases

I hand prime the cases

Then back on the press for powder, bullet and crimping.

 

Rejects at that point - Almost none. (A few cases with small splits)

 

Every case is then run through a case gauge.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Take a 45 ACP round and put it on the end of the plastic primer alarm rod. It adds a bit of pressure while the primers are being fed and helped eliminate my issues.

[Key Hay]

I have 2 550s. One for Large primers and one for small primers. Only loading issues I have had were finding a split case at the powder/bell stage. Started checking for them before loading and haven't seen one since. Have never seen a primer in backwards.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

I've had a dillion 650 for years and make tens of thousands of rds with it, I've never had a primer flip over, the only rejects I get from occasional 357's getting in with my 38's or bad piece of brass.

 

 

Good luck AO

[Krazy Kajun]

I experienced some flipped-over primers and thought that they may have flipped over in the tube when I inverted the tube to transfer them into the primer hopper. I found that if I use the plastic rod (the primer alarm rod) to push the primers up in the tube - holding the tube vertically the way I pick up the primers - and then invert the tube with the rod in place, and allow the rod to stay seated on top of the primers when I pull the pin, there is no way for the primers to flip over in the tube. I started doing this about 2,000 rounds ago and I've not had a single flipped primer since. RR

ok....so I ran about 400 rounds last night and I used your method of putting the plastic rod on top of the primer tube and letting it sit by gravity on top before I pulled the pin to release the primers into the primer feed assembly on the press. You know what...it works very well. I found that I did not have any primers sticking at the top going from the filler tube into the assembly. I also did not have any flipped primers in the 400 loads I ran. Great suggestion Roger Rapid.

 

Kajun

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

Some times it will be 1 out of 100 that has an issue. Then it will go for 500 to 600 rounds with no problems. Last time I loaded 38's ran 2000 rounds and no issues.

I loaded 2000 380's with no case issues. But the case feeder kept jamming up.

 

Most of the rejects have been from brass issues.

[Roger Rapid]

Krazy Kajun... Sorry for not responding to your question earlier. I shared this idea with two shooters at Western Regional and just heard back that it appears to have solved their primer problems, too. Glad it worked for you... RR

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

I have had only minimal rejects due to primer seating on my 650. The biggest rash of poorly seated primers was caused by part #16658 platform coming loose on the top of the ram. This allowed the head to tilt away from the primer punch as primers were being seated. I now check the screws that hold it on the ram about every 1500-2000 rounds as I change over from 45LC to .38s.

Buff Bill

[Noah Cash]

I apprecite all the feedback, Some of the suggestions I have already been using, and some are new to me. In any case, it seems like my reject rate is about par,. nothing to really be concerned with but I will implement a number of the suggestions and see how they do for me.

[Michigan Slim]

My 12 yo little girl just completed 2000 .45ACP and .38 Specials. One reject due to a small primer case on the .45. This was on a RL550B, not a 650 though. I have never seen someone so intent -and content- on a job before. Wish I could hire kids like that. Most grown (relative term!) men that I hire won't do that good a job!

[Chance Derringer, SASS #19985]

I experienced some flipped-over primers and thought that they may have flipped over in the tube when I inverted the tube to transfer them into the primer hopper. I found that if I use the plastic rod (the primer alarm rod) to push the primers up in the tube - holding the tube vertically the way I pick up the primers - and then invert the tube with the rod in place, and allow the rod to stay seated on top of the primers when I pull the pin, there is no way for the primers to flip over in the tube. I started doing this about 2,000 rounds ago and I've not had a single flipped primer since. RR

+1.....I do it the exact same way & rarely have a flipped primer since I started this procedure about 6 years ago.

[Red Cent]

In the priming position, the arm that is held in place by a spring guides the case over the primer hole. If the tension is too tight it will press the case against the shell holder and will cause fipped primers. Too loose and the case can go the other way. Place a business card between the case and arm and adjust accordingly. The case needs just a tad bit of wiggle room to prime efficiently.