What to do about revolvers that shoot six inches low.

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

I am new to SASS, but not a new shooter. I recently purchased two new Pietta 1873 revolvers and started shooting them Offhand from 15 yards, took awhile to see where the bullet was going, I found that I had to aim at the target above to hit the target below. Next week I carefully made some new ammo 38 special cases, Winchester Magnum primers and some TiteGroup with a 130 grain LRNFP bullet. Now at 7 yards from a dead rest I have to aim 5 1/2" above and 2" left to hit the center of the Bulls Eye.I could attach a pdf copy of the target if I Knew how.

 

Tell me what you think? Thanks a lot. Florida Slowpoke

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Florida,

 

First, check this chart and adjust accordingly, if appropriate.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Krazy Kajun]

First off your new and may not know this but the owners of this board don't want folks to post actual formulas for reloads as there might be some liability associated with it....so I'd think you ought to edit the actual weight of the powder out of your original post.

 

Given that you are shooting off a rest and still low it would appear that your sights might need a bit of work. If you's shooting too low you can file off a TINY bit off the tops of the sights to bring the point of aim a little higher. You'll need to do that in small steps to bring up the point of aim. If you are not comfortable doing that you should take your guns to a qualified gunsmith to help you with that.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

My thoughts only.. (but yeah... ya need ta get rid of yer loading data off the SASS Wire)

 

Find a load that you want to stay with.. what I mean is..

You said you were new to Cowboy Action Shooting...

Experiment with different loads..

I'd recommend shooting like you would in a match and not off of a dead rest..

Find a load that you'd say... "That's the recoil and power factor I want"

Then start having it sighted in..

 

Rance

Thinkin' I ain't a shooting instructor either

But I sure wouldn't start filing on the sights til I have "THE" load I wanted to stay with..

[J-BAR #18287]

Using a heavier bullet will raise the point of impact.

 

If you don't want to use a heavier bullet then your options are to use Kentucky windage, raise the back sight, or lower the front sight.

 

I have been known to file down a front sight on occasion meownself....

 

One final recommendation; shoot the gun as you would in a match, going for speed. You might find that the point of impact is higher when you are shooting at match speed because you are not taking as much time to refine your sight picture and get the front sight all the way down in the notch. It may be that at match speed, the point of impact will be pretty close to what you want. You might not have to do anything at all.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

To raise the point of impact on your revolvers, file off the front sight (not sights as indicated in earlier posts), a very tiny bit at a time and reshoot again. Do this only after you have the load you will want to shoot the rest of the revolvers life time. It is the pits to shoot a gun that does not shoot to point of aim. I suspect the left right issue is your hold or trigger pull. Very occasionally a barrel will not be installed correctly and cause a left right issue.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

I am new to SASS, but not a new shooter. I recently purchased two new Pietta 1873 revolvers and started shooting them Offhand from 15 yards, took awhile to see where the bullet was going, I found that I had to aim at the target above to hit the target below. Next week I carefully made some new ammo 38 special cases, Winchester Magnum primers and some TiteGroup with a 130 grain LRNFP bullet. Now at 7 yards from a dead rest I have to aim 5 1/2" above and 2" left to hit the center of the Bulls Eye.I could attach a pdf copy of the target if I Knew how.

 

Tell me what you think? Thanks a lot. Florida Slowpoke

 

 

yep what others have said ,I like to see what my loads chronograph at thru my guns,when Im happy with load where it meets or exceeds PF & consistant,see where there grouping adjust front sight accordingly.you might want to get some help before attemting sight adjustment

[Crisco]

Having filed several 44's to shoot 200 grain bullets, the only thing I would add to the advice above is that once you are committed to a load and bullet weight, put some masking tape on the barrel around your front sight before that sighting in trip to the range. No matter how cautious you are, I can almost guaranteee you'll slip off that sight once or twice and have a noticeable ding to clean up on your barrel.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Heavier bullet and have someone with mucho trigger time try'em.

LG

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

To raise the point of impact on your revolvers, file off the front sight (not sights as indicated in earlier posts), a very tiny bit at a time and reshoot again. Do this only after you have the load you will want to shoot the rest of the revolvers life time. It is the pits to shoot a gun that does not shoot to point of aim. I suspect the left right issue is your hold or trigger pull. Very occasionally a barrel will not be installed correctly and cause a left right issue.

 

 

+1

[Irish Pat]

use the tip of your trigger finger, don't stick to much finger in the trigger guard or you will reflecively pull down ward when you fire, try it, I just bought two 1911's and I thought both were shooting low before I tried changing my grip, Irish Pat, sass 19486

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

The probability is that you are using "too much finger" on the trigger. That's why you are shooting left. I do the same thing. If I reeeeealy take my time, and use barely the tip of my trigger finger, SOMETIMES I can control it. So I have the barrels of my guns turned, (tightened) in the frame. One that's done, I find that I don't shoot nearly as low as I did before. Only one of my guns needed any more sight work after being turned. Four, yes FOUR, LIGHT strokes of a file brought that gun on target, POA=POI. YMMV

[Squint Westwood SASS#2165]

J-Bar and Lumpy Grits gave you good advice. Given the same powder charge, a heavier bullet will increase the dwell time in the barrel and cause it to rise more before the bullet exits. Your sights are regulated by the factory for "factory-equivalent loads, which means a 158-grain bullet in the .38 Special. If you substitute a lighter bullet, you will have to file the front sight down to raise the point of impact. Make sure that's what you want to do because you won't be able to put the metal back on if you change your mind later. I had a customer once who wanted to sell his Ruger Vaquero because it shot too low. I recommended that he use factory-equivalent bullets and when he did, his problem was solved. There are other factors (as the chart shows), but this is a common one in SASS with the emphasis on light bullets and loads. Happy trails, Squint.

[Oklahoma Dee]

Good advice so far, but sounds like you need a qualified gunsmith to help you. Once you have settled on a load, make up about 100 rounds and take it to the most qualifed gunsmith in your area, and ask them to bend the barrel(s) to POA. If there are no qualifed gunsmiths that have even heard of this, contact Alan Harton of Single Action Service in Houston, Texas. He will explain what and how he does this technique. I have done this on revolvers ranging from 4 5/8" to 7.5" barrels.

OkD

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

First off your new and may not know this but the owners of this board don't want folks to post actual formulas for reloads as there might be some liability associated with it....so I'd think you ought to edit the actual weight of the powder out of your original post.

 

Given that you are shooting off a rest and still low it would appear that your sights might need a bit of work. If you's shooting too low you can file off a TINY bit off the tops of the sights to bring the point of aim a little higher. You'll need to do that in small steps to bring up the point of aim. If you are not comfortable doing that you should take your guns to a qualified gunsmith to help you with that.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Good advice so far, but sounds like you need a qualified gunsmith to help you. Once you have settled on a load, make up about 100 rounds and take it to the most qualifed gunsmith in your area, and ask them to bend the barrel(s) to POA. If there are no qualifed gunsmiths that have even heard of this, contact Alan Harton of Single Action Service in Houston, Texas. He will explain what and how he does this technique. I have done this on revolvers ranging from 4 5/8" to 7.5" barrels.

OkD

I can not imagine bending a revolver barrel to make it shoot at different point of aim. With that said on a 97 shotgun, I had a new screw in choke installed (none before) at a very slight angle, and it actually allowed the pattern to center almost perfect.

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

use the tip of your trigger finger, don't stick to much finger in the trigger guard or you will reflecively pull down ward when you fire, try it, I just bought two 1911's and I thought both were shooting low before I tried changing my grip, Irish Pat, sass 19486

 

 

 

Thank you for this suggestion, it could be right on, I will try it this week. Thanks Florida Slowpoke

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

My thoughts only.. (but yeah... ya need ta get rid of yer loading data off the SASS Wire)

 

Find a load that you want to stay with.. what I mean is..

You said you were new to Cowboy Action Shooting...

Experiment with different loads..

I'd recommend shooting like you would in a match and not off of a dead rest..

Find a load that you'd say... "That's the recoil and power factor I want"

Then start having it sighted in..

 

Rance

Thinkin' I ain't a shooting instructor either

But I sure wouldn't start filing on the sights til I have "THE" load I wanted to stay with..

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

When my revolvers shoot low... I cover up part of my front sight with invisible ink. Makes my sight look shorter.

 

ts

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

Thanks for the Good advice, I probably have been shootin at to many paper targets. Florida Slowpoke

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Thanks for the Good advice, I probably have been shootin at to many paper targets. Florida Slowpoke

 

Yep, we aren't shooting bullseye. Minute of pie plate is usually good enough. At speed a lot of people actually will hold the front sight a little over the rear sight notch as it is easier to pick up. Before you start cutting the front sight or bending anything just take some loads out to the range and shoot at a freshly painted plate set at SASS distances and see how you do.

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

Great advice, exacly what I needed to know, Thanks Florida Slowpoke

[Guest Pecos River Bob]

Great advice, exactly what I needed to know, Thanks Florida Slowpoke

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

I recommend you have a couple other competent shooters put some ammo thru your gun before you "decide" where it's hitting.

 

Fillmore

[Red Hooker]

Heavier bullet and have someone with mucho trigger time try'em.

LG

No- odds are, he'll have a hold somewhat different than yours and this will influence POI and you'll just have to start all over again.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

No- odds are, he'll have a hold somewhat different than yours and this will influence POI and you'll just have to start all over again.

 

That why I said MUCH'O trigger time....

BTW, Rugers seem to like heavier bullets.

LG

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I have one revolver that (out of 5) that just won't shoot one powder (Winchester 231)to point of aim it shoots to the same point of aim as it's stable-mates with 4 other powders ... So it seems it just wants to shoot this one powder 3 inches to the left at 15 yards !!!

But load it with "True Blue" ,Unquiue ,Red Dot or Promo and it steps back into line ....

 

The other four revolvers and my rifles shoot this load with no sighting ajustments needed ,,,,, the one gun just don't LIKE 231 ...

 

But that's just fine as the other 4 powders produce smaller groups in all my guns ,,,,, so once I shoot-up the remaining loads of 231 it is no more .... Red Dot shoots groups less than half the size of 231 in all my .45s both long and short ..

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Creekside]

All this advice sounds right on the money

but remember cutting off is easy but cutting

on is another animal

When it come down to filing the sights I would try that last

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Shootin' 6" low? File 6" off yer sight. Easy peazy. Next question

 

CR

[Bugler]

As has already been mentioned, I use a 158 grain bullet and POI and POA seem to be one in the same. I believe that most of the .38 Spl's are regulated for 158's. I have also had good success using 147 grain truncated cone 9mm projectile's. My, oh my, do they feed well in both of my M66's. Might work for you as well.

 

Bugler

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

You probably will need to regulate your sights, just make sure you're really happy with the load you adjust you guns to. Fixed sight guns require removal of metal to move point of aim. As has been pointed out - it's harder to put it back on than to take it off.

 

CR

[ShadowCatcher]

I can not imagine bending a revolver barrel to make it shoot at different point of aim. With that said on a 97 shotgun, I had a new screw in choke installed (none before) at a very slight angle, and it actually allowed the pattern to center almost perfect.

That's what is going on when they say bend the barrel. If the barrel threads are misaligned even slightly, the barrel,

at the part of the frame it mounts to, will be pointing off to the side at some slight angle. If you hold the frame

of the gun in a padded vice and run a laser light down the bore (using a laser that fits the barrel exactly)you will be able

to see if the bore is pointed at the target that the sights are pointed at, or slightly off. What is done to adjust this is

to move the barrel tip (without bending the barrel) in the correct direction a few thousandths of an inch, moving the point of

impact accordingly. Then after this is adjusted you reface the barrel breech face to be square to the cylinder again, maintaining

the desired gap.

 

Back in the 70's or 80's one of the gun rags ran a special article on Smith and Wesson and they showed the calibrated barrel

adjustment tools they had, including a set of various length pipes for barrel aligning.

 

I've had one Colt Detective special that required a move of a few thousands to the right to make it hit centered with

factory 158 LSWC, that gun was shot by several professionals and a few other avid gun folks - all of us were 4" left at 20 yds,

and after truing up the barrel to the frame we were all on target.

 

I've also had one Ruger that was off a bit, and one Walther PP that was slightly off center left. That one took a few taps

and it was on target, the Ruger a bit more. The Op's issue about the gun hitting 5-6 inches low to point of aim is common

as we all know. Most .38/.357's are regulated for a 158 gr bullet in the 800 f/s range, so lighter bullets will hit lower.

Traditionally fixed sighted guns are built with the tallest sight you are likely to need - it can always be shortened, and

probably will be.

 

Heavier goes higher, lighter goes lower. First find a bullet weight and velocity that gives you the best possible grouping,

and the most reliable performance. The adjust the gun to hit POA = POI for that load. Remember that anticipatory flinching and

grip issues can all affect the gun as well, vertically or horizontally, so those issues need evaluation as well.

 

Browning gives a calculator on their web site that tells you approximately how much to file to change POI for different barrel lengths, etc.

 

Then do filing of the sights, bending the barrel/frame mounting point, or whatever else your gunsmith recommends.

 

Shadow Catcher

[SlicLee SASS #16638 Life]

STOP! Use the load you've got and aim at where you want to hit. See how good your groups are, how tight and how far below your both guns shoot.

Most all cowboy guns or guns with fixed sights are made to shoot low. WHY?

It takes time to figure out what load,bullet your going to shoot,wind up with thats why its made to shoot low.

When you finally decide what its going to be you will go to the range and begin slowly filing a bit off the front sights.

My advice when you get that far stop filing when you hit about 3 or 4 inches low. Stay there for awhile until youve decided what your doing and what your going to do about how your going to aim and shoot.

Never use anything bit a fine file if not use stones only. It will take a bit longer but come out perfect. Good luck,Lee

[John Boy]

Slowpoke, if all the suggestions fail to correct the POI, got a project for you ...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=13093/GunTechdetail/Sight_Correction_Calculator

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

What to do about revolvers that shoot six inches low.

 

Get a pecker-prop...

 

Course...

 

It may not be six inches. Just don't let a female measure it.

 

ts