Guest diablo slim shootist Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm pretty easy as a match director/posse marshal. If some one is having a hard time with guns or ammo ect i'll ask if they would like a re-shoot.Some accept some do not. At the last shoot I attended at another club during one stage the rifle was the last gun shot After the 3rd shot I had a split case and the bullet backed into the case locking up the action.As I walked to the loading table I heard the counters talking that I would get 7 misses. I was good with that call but a buddy spoke up and said "how about giving him a re-shoot. They decided this was OK with them.Now understand This gave me the advantage of beating my buddy in the overall standings.I feel a litle humbled by this jester of friendship and hope to return the favor soon. My question to the wire is what do you consider grounds for a re-shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Monthly, club annual, or SASS-sanctioned State+ match?? REF: SHB p.19 / RO1 p.22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuno Massey, SASS # 66948 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 our local clubs will allow re-shoots often for ammo or weapons issues, the more the rounds left in the gun, the better the chance for a re-shoot. If you hace one that wont go off in a pistol or squib a rifle after 7 or 8 rounds probably not. We gave a lady shooter 3 tries at one stage last weekend, rifle wouldnt extract the round, she is still mad at her ole man For some reason, if I take a reshoot, I normally BLOW UP, and wish I hadnt taken it. Karma maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Mike SASS #38824 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 + 1 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. Folks who don't know all the rules, and get used to shooting in a match that doesn't abide by them, are bound to be very disappointed when they go to a big shoot and find out things are different there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Hi folks, I agree to go by the rules. I must tell you what happened yesterday. I jammed my marlin on the first rifle shot, not first gun, and left 10 in it. Then, the TO gave me bad directions on the pistol, which I ignored, and bumped me with the timer. I laughed and said "do I get a reshoot?" He said yes. Then, I said "you did that on purpose so I'd get a reshoot, didn't you." He said, "I'd never do that" and seemed serious. Anyway, I found someone to help me with the rifle. Somehow I wandered away from the ULT without unloading my pistols. When I got back the ULT officer said you need to unload your pistols. I said "Crap, that's a Stage DQ." He was new and didn't know. After unloading, I went to keep score and saw it said "reshoot" over the score area for me for the stage. I changed it to SDQ. Later another shooter went all the way to his guncart without unloading. They called him back and he did not get a SDQ. It could be because the ULT was a new shooter and didn't know what he should have done. At lunch, I told the shooter he should have got a SDQ and to be careful. Another shooter said no, he didn't put his guns away, which I did not do either, as my SG and Rifle were still at the ULT. The moral of the story is "rules is rules" and they need to be consistently applied. Moral two, you will never feel bad about calling something on yourself. I know this is a bit OT, I just needed to "get it out." Regards, Allie Mo PS I too have seen shooters get reshoots for malfunctions at monthly matches. It's infrequent; but happens, usually in the spirit of "it's just a practice match." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Regional match 4 shotgun targets I shot two from one window and at the spur of the moment decieded to shot 3 & 4 from a different window. As I ran backwards I caught the TO by surprise as I ran him over. I declined the offered reshoot. I figured it was my fault and should have warned the TO what I was planning on doing State match Shooter went to shoot the shotgun and realized they didn't have any shells TO (as done at local matches) handed the Shooter shells from the TO's belt. Shooter accepted them by habit. TO, Posse Leader and another cowpoke who was the 2nd TO confured, called TO interference and offered a reshoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I don't have a problem granting a reshoot for ammo or gun problems if it is a monthly shoot....after all it's more of a training atmosphere. I do however insist that the rules regarding MS, DQ's and procedurals as these insure the learning aspect of the game. We all have gun and ammo problems and that is out of our control. But, if you let someone get by with a safety issue or a procedural because they are a NEW shooter or a GOOD OLE BOY, then I have a problem. Cause when they get to a state level or above there aren't any "DO OVERS". PS: Allie, good on you for making the call on yourself....feels good, don't it? I know of a cowboy that lost overall at a two day match because he had been distracted at the UL and he noticed at his cart he hadn't unloaded his guns....he could have done it without anyone knowing, but he called it on hisself.....that was Cheyenne Culpepper. It makes me proud to know shooters like yourself and CC that do the honerable thing..... KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. No doubt about it, rules are rules. If someone on Posse 1 recieved a reshoot for gun/ammo problems, did someone on Posse 3 get one for the same problem? It is very important that the rules are applied evenly at every match. That can prevent the old "That's the way we do it at our normal match back home" statement. I'd say that 95% of the reshoots I've recieved and/or seen were due to TO interference, mainly by impeding the shooter in various ways. The rest are due to prop malfunctions, etc. CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If I have been fouled, prop failure or whatev er I will request or accept a reshoot. Other reasons I'll decline. Ethics lie with the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 ... State match Shooter went to shoot the shotgun and realized they didn't have any shells TO (as done at local matches) handed the Shooter shells from the TO's belt. Shooter accepted them by habit. TO, Posse Leader and another cowpoke who was the 2nd TO confured, called TO interference and offered a reshoot That's stretching the rules WAY past the breaking point...IMO. Proper call would have been a "P" + misses for "Use of illegally acquired ammo"...NOT a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 The rule books explain when a re-shoot should be given. SASS clubs should follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I've shot at some clubs that allow reshoots for a gun/ammo problem and some that do not. The ones that do allow reshoots clearly state to the shooter that it is their option for monthly shoots only, and such would not be allowed at "higher level" matches or at many other clubs. So they make the SASS rules clear and explain that they are doing something allowed only at monthly matches AND at the club's option. So do not expect such options. Generally a larger monthly shoot does not allow reshoots due to both time concerns and consistency among all the posses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'm pretty easy as a match director/posse marshal. If some one is having a hard time with guns or ammo ect i'll ask if they would like a re-shoot.Some accept some do not. Sure - as long as EVERY TO offers the same chance to EVERY shooter with the same problem on EVERY posse, that should work. But I seriously doubt that's gonna happen ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyandot Jim Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Well I shoot at several clubs. Some allow do overs some don't. Lets remember that these are monthly matches. Therefore they are for practice and having fun which means shooting the most ya can. Might also be the only club you shoot at once a month. I think most of us that have shot at State level matches and been around awhile know what the RULES are. Those that don't will be told. If your Pard is the only one you want to beat. Do you want to beat him because he had a gun malfunction? My answer is NO give him a do over and let me beat him fair and square or him me. If the club lets EVERYONE know that you can have a do over for a gun, load, extraction. or squib so be it. Rules are made to be broken at times when ya want to have fun. So it might take 20-60 seconds longer for that posse to shoot that stage so what. IMHO makes a lot of folks happier. Keep in mind this is a GAME and next week most will not know who won what or care. Wyandot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorado Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We follow the rules. I got a reshoot yesterday on the account that the Timer operator thought we shot different targets than what we were supposed to. Good thing too, I did really good on my second time around, better than what I would have done on the first time. lol Basically whenever there is a malfunction or and error outside of the shooter's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tom Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Shoot at clubs that do both some are no alibi, others offer limited amount of reshoots for mechanicals. I believe Middletown and Knob Creek both will offer you a reshoot for a mechanical but penalties incured up to the mechanical carry forward. And I believe both clubs announce this at thier safety meeting so everybody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We've allowed NEW shooters at local club monthly matches some latitude, while explaining the rules and letting them know this is an exception they may not get again. We try to encourage newbies and the allow the RO the discretion in these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 After I had a bunch of sqib problems because of a new press I purchased an officer at a sister club in Texas handed me a couple of boxes of ammo to Finnish the match. At the next months match their Match director had added a new club rule that you could only have one re-shoot per stage and had to Take your second score squibs or not and borrow ammo If you were to complete the match...Every time he reads that rule I know that was because of me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 After I had a bunch of sqib problems because of a new press I purchased an officer at a sister club in Texas handed me a couple of boxes of ammo to Finnish the match. At the next months match their Match director had added a new club rule that you could only have one re-shoot per stage and had to Take your second score squibs or not and borrow ammo If you were to complete the match...Every time he reads that rule I know that was because of me Hi DSS, I like a man who can admit and live with not being perfect! Bravo for this admission. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 There are no perfect men walking on this earth...just ask my wife she will tell you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Ever been DQ'd? I'll bet everyone who has been DQ'd remembers it vividly and can tell you every little detail of what happened. You know why? Because it's a shock to the system. At best, it's a bit embarassing. At worse, it was a near-miss (like a round over the berm). Now, I am not suggesting that a guy with bad ammo get DQ'd, but I am pointing out that good judgement comes from bad experiences. A guy lays a gun down with eight or nine rounds in it, it's gonna disappoint him a little but it should motivate him to go home and really examine what he is doing in the reloading room, which could keep him and possibly others from getting hurt. Glossing over it may bring unexpected consequences, like a trip to the E.R.. The rules should be vigorously discussed and enforced at the MONTLY matches for all the right reasons. Dang It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Folks who don't know all the rules, and get used to shooting in a match that doesn't abide by them, are bound to be very disappointed when they go to a big shoot and find out things are different there. 95% of club shooters never go to big matches.,,, hardly leave town to other clubs. Scary how little rules club members knows past hits/misses/procedurals. Just my observation. Edit: I am not advocating slaking up on the rules and not giving penalties when earned. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyandot Jim Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Now, I am not suggesting that a guy with bad ammo get DQ'd, but I am pointing out that good judgement comes from bad experiences. A guy lays a gun down with eight or nine rounds in it, it's gonna disappoint him a little but it should motivate him to go home and really examine what he is doing in the reloading room, which could keep him and possibly others from getting hurt. Glossing over it may bring unexpected consequences, like a trip to the E.R.. The rules should be vigorously discussed and enforced at the MONTLY matches for all the right reasons. Dang It. Dan, I agree with you on being safe. We all want to be safe. Now I'm sure all of us that has had a squib or a split case in a 73 or a worn carrier in a Marlin know not to do that ever again. OK try not to do it ever again. The RO is there to keep us safe. In 13 years never saw any shooter go to the ER. But have seen a bunch of mistakes. Yea ya laugh at a lot of them. Some ya don't So why can't that person be able to have a do over? He already knows where he screwed up. Yea I have done all the above. Will I do it again? Probably not at a monthly or a Big one. Would be pretty stuoooooopid after paying big bucks to shoot at the big one and be stupid Just my opinion. The shooter is already embarrassed let him have a do over to gain back some respect. Wyandot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Nothing wrong with offering a reshoot w/o score for gun/ammo malfunctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Its funny the timing on this.....when we were a fairly new club we had an abundance of "new" shooters at one time so we were generous with re-shoots at first as we “learned” together. Now some people have complained and of course others like it........and I'm stuck in between to be honest. So, please keep the responses coming and help push me off the fence....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyandot Jim Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well Johnny, Seems to work OK at Oak Wood and Tejas Pistoleros. I really didn't want to get into the calling out the name of a club. Since it is your bat and ball we will play by your rules. Since it is a club with paying members and all should have the same voice, lets take a vote sometime. Ya might be surprised. Make the the rules the same for everybody. Gun malfunction ya get a do over. If you had an open mind it could be worked out the same for everybody. Has worked in the past. Not all of us take this GAME as serious as others. A good example. Sat. one middle of the pack shooter had a split case cost him 9 rounds in the rifle. Another bottom of the pack had pistol problem with 5 rounds. Why not let them try again? Probably would have made them happy. Did you win the Caddy? I sure didn't Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well Johnny, Seems to work OK at Oak Wood and Tejas Pistoleros. I really didn't want to get into the calling out the name of a club. Since it is your bat and ball we will play by your rules. Since it is a club with paying members and all should have the same voice, lets take a vote sometime. Ya might be surprised. Make the the rules the same for everybody. Gun malfunction ya get a do over. If you had an open mind it could be worked out the same for everybody. Has worked in the past. Not all of us take this GAME as serious as others. A good example. Sat one middle of the pack shooter had a splid case cost him 9 rounds in the rifle. Another bottom of the pack had pistol problem with 5 rounds. Why not let them try again? Probably would have made them happy. Did you win the Caddy? I sure didn't Jim A lot of people keep emphasizing that we are playing a GAME. Yes we are and it is a game with rules. If you aren't playing by the rules you aren't playing the game. Several clubs that I shoot with have end of year awards based on the number of points/matches scored or won. You better have a good reason to give a re-shoot that is not specified in the rules or a lot of members get real upset. To play the game fairly, you have to apply the rules equally to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'm pretty easy as a match director/posse marshal. If some one is having a hard time with guns or ammo ect i'll ask if they would like a re-shoot.Some accept some do not. At the last shoot I attended at another club during one stage the rifle was the last gun shot After the 3rd shot I had a split case and the bullet backed into the case locking up the action.As I walked to the loading table I heard the counters talking that I would get 7 misses. I was good with that call but a buddy spoke up and said "how about giving him a re-shoot. They decided this was OK with them.Now understand This gave me the advantage of beating my buddy in the overall standings.I feel a litle humbled by this jester of friendship and hope to return the favor soon. My question to the wire is what do you consider grounds for a re-shoot RO Interference or prop failure, gun or ammo issues Nope,its best to follow the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well Johnny, Seems to work OK at Oak Wood and Tejas Pistoleros. Jim Interesting point you brought up, Jim. The posses I've been on at Oakwood DONT give reshoots for ammo or equipment issues. So it looks like the rules are unevenly applied. By the way, I support Johnny and the others on this: rules is rules, and should be enforced evenly and equally! Laz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules. ROI also says Don't be a hardass. Give a person a break already at monthly matches. No leeway at annuals and above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 ROI also says Don't be a hardass. Give a person a break already at monthly matches. No leeway at annuals and above. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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