Giving reshoots

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Folks who don't know all the rules, and get used to shooting in a match that doesn't abide by them, are bound to be very disappointed when they go to a big shoot and find out things are different there.

 

Then the RO is not doing their job. I'll give a new shooter a break at monthlies, immediately followed by, "If you do that at state and above, you are hosed. You get no break. And you only get a few breaks here at the monthlies." This type of attitude does not chase off new shooters, and it builds a loyal base. My two cents.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Has anyone bothered to actually READ the RULE regarding re-shoots??

 

It starts out with, "SASS matches above the club level..."

REF: SHB p.19 / RO1 p.22

 

Any club that allows reshoots for firearm/ammo malfunctions at MONTHLY CLUB matches is operating under SASS rules.

Would strongly advise informing members that the allowance does NOT APPLY at matches above the local match level.

Also make certain that it is mentioned during any pre-match safety briefing so all T/O's & PM's are aware as well.

[Oklahomabound]

Then the RO is not doing their job. I'll give a new shooter a break at monthlies, immediately followed by, "If you do that at state and above, you are hosed. You get no break. And you only get a few breaks here at the monthlies." This type of attitude does not chase off new shooters, and it builds a loyal base. My two cents.

 

 

...and another +1

 

...Okie, you be on a roll tonight!!!

 

...Bottles, set Okie up with another round of whatever he is drinkin'... ...and yes, it's on Flint's tab.

[Jacknife]

Happy Jack, at your club do you allow for loading the shotgun on the move?

[Jacknife]

Johnny Morris, yes SASS has rules and if ya read post 38 you will see that the rule allowes this practice at these aforementioned ranges.

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

We are a SASS club and run ALL our matches by SASS rules. We help the shooters as much as possible but he rules are the rules.

+1

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

FWIW - The clubs at which I usually shoot monthly matches allow (1)-ONE reshoot for a firearm malfunction per match.

NONE for ammo-related (e.g. squib) issues.

[Missouri Marshal SASS #50682]

ROI also says Don't be a hardass. Give a person a break already at monthly matches. No leeway at annuals and above.

 

Enforcing the rules is not being a hard ass, it's called doing your job as an RO.

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

For those not looking up the rules, from ROI:

 

SASS matches above the club level are "no alibi" matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. However, if there is a range failure (failure of props, timer, or the range officers) beyond the competitor’s control, a restart may be granted. On a reshoot/restart, the competitor starts over clean, carrying only accrued safety penalties forward. At all SASS annual club, state, Regional, National, and World Championship matches, no reshoots/restarts will be given after the first shot goes down range as determined by the Chief Range Officer and the Match Director, except for:

 

• Prop or match equipment failure

 

• A Range Officer impeding the progress of the shooter

 

• Timer failure or unrecorded time

 

If some of you are wondering why your club is not growing, or you are actually losing members, you might want to look at your attitude towards shooters. What goes around comes around -- a worn cliche, but true. We are putting on our first annual next weekend, and a lady shooter who cannot shoot due to call, is coming out to help us set up, run score sheets, etc. (unless she gets a call). She said that she remembered how patient we were with her, and how much we helped her, and she felt like she needed to do payback. You can't buy that kind of loyalty. I'm more proud of that than any award. Stop the nastiness in SASS already; it is NOT necessary. Stop the grudges; stop the boycotting; stop the back-biting -- life is short. Enjoy it.

 

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Enforcing the rules is not being a hard ass, it's called doing your job as an RO.

 

 

At monthlies, under certain circumstances, I disagree 100%.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I shoot at some clubs that do. Some that don't.

 

My opinion is.

 

Monthly. One posse. Sure, why not.

 

Monthly with two posses. Not so much. Same thing might happen on the other posse

and they are NOT giving one. Now it is unfair.

 

Above a monthly. Only give per SASS rule. Other than that. Get through it best you can.

[Korupt Karl]

Its funny the timing on this.....when we were a fairly new club we had an abundance of "new" shooters at one time so we were generous with re-shoots at first as we "learned" together.

 

Now some people have complained and of course others like it........and I'm stuck in between to be honest. So, please keep the responses coming and help push me off the fence....lol.

 

I am assuming you have a committee or a group that makes the club run. Sit down with them and discuss how you would like to move forward. If you have a news letter....put your decision in there and list the reason why. At your next shoot advise everyone at the shooters meeting about how it's going to be and explain your reasoning.

 

Just my too scents

 

KK

[Korupt Karl]

I agree that a lot of times the decision is at the discretion of the RO at the time. There are a lot of RO's at monthly shoots that are not really qualified. For some this is how they learn and for others, they just have time in the saddle doing it. I've been to a lot of shoots both monthly and club two days where I will position myself in line with a shooter so he or she won't be available to RO for me. I know, that's bad, but some RO's just don't work for me.

 

Back to what I wanted to say. One RO might say reshoot and another might not. It needs to be fair for everyone and while we arent' playing for a cadillac, it should still be fair to all.

 

Just my too scents.

KK

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Think about the size of the monthly match and other things people will do with generous opportunity for re-shoot.

 

For example, where I shoot, there are a large number of people that show up for a monthly 5 stage match. The club used to be generous about re-shoots, and, quickly found the match taking a long time to complete. I also noticed that people would show up with all sorts of rickety old firearms that should have stayed hangin on the wall at home. Add in the occasional bad ammo and the fairly frequent "fine tuned race gun failure" and ... you have a very long match. Lots of unwanted standing around watching people mess with bad ammo or bad guns. Aside from the potentially unsafe ammo situation, I for one was glad to see the club eliminate re-shoots for firearm or ammo malfunctions. Standing around in the hot sun wathcing someone futz with a malfunctioning gun (stage after stage) is not fun.

 

PS.. another good pard asked did ya really want to beat a buddy who had a gun or ammo malfunction? IMHO ... yes. Equipment function and reliability is a really big part of this game. Before the match, make sure your guns and ammo are reliable. Botch up your equipment and ... you loose, can't finish a match, get hurt or possibly hurt someone else.

 

I know this sounds harsh ... oh well.

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

"we arent' playing for a cadillac, it should still be fair to all."

 

I agree 100% Karl

 

Virgil-"I know this sounds harsh ... oh well. "

Just a little

 

If someone drives 2 hours to our club I want him to shoot-even if his guns break or his ammo is bad...but that's just me.In Texas most of us got enough

sense to stand in the shade..if we can find any

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Since monthly's are for most shooters practice, trying new methods, or firearms, etc. for the bigger match. Many clubs I shoot or shot at, give 1 re-shoot for a malfunction of ammo, firearm or an interference.

But I have also seen to many times this abused after a round went downrange at bigger, and major matches were a shooter was given a re-shoot, because they didn't stage their firearms correctly, didn't come to the line with enough shotgun shells, after a miserable stage, was given a re-shoot because TO said he forgot to ask shooter if they understood the stage. There were also many variants given beyond these to give a re-shoot. Its abused, believe me. MT

[Jacknife]

 

But I have also seen to many times this abused after a round went downrange at bigger, and major matches were a shooter was given a re-shoot, because they didn't stage their firearms correctly, didn't come to the line with enough shotgun shells, after a miserable stage, was given a re-shoot because TO said he forgot to ask shooter if they understood the stage. Its abused, believe me. MT

 

When ya saw all ths happening, did ya complain to management to get it stopped? OR just continue on as nothing happened.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Since monthly's are for most shooters practice, trying new methods, or firearms, etc. for the bigger match. Many clubs I shoot or shot at, give 1 re-shoot for a malfunction of ammo, firearm or an interference.

But I have also seen to many times this abused after a round went downrange at bigger, and major matches were a shooter was given a re-shoot, because they didn't stage their firearms correctly, didn't come to the line with enough shotgun shells, after a miserable stage, was given a re-shoot because TO said he forgot to ask shooter if they understood the stage. There were also many variants given beyond these to give a re-shoot. Its abused, believe me. MT

 

That's not just "abuse"...that's CHEATING.

 

 

If a Range Officer elects not to penalize a shooter that has not complied with a rule, the effect is penalizing all other match participants that did comply.

RO1 p.15

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

Jacknife, YES, we allow loading the SG on the move as long as the action remains open until the shooting position is reached.

 

As for the SASS allowance for LOCAL clubs to have variances from the rules for Sanctioned matches, I am very aware of that stipulation. With that in mind, I feel that you do not help your shooters by letting them develop habits that will not serve them well at Sanctioned matches. Some clubs are subsets of larger organizations and as such have restrictions that are outside normal SASS practices. That is certainly understandable. As for the statement: "It's OK here, but understand that if you go somewhere else it may not be". I find it not helpful to the shooter. Firearm and ammunition malfunctions are the shooter's responsibility. We have occasional "practice meets" and some reshoot a stage 3 or 4 times, but those are practice meets not matches. Your position on the matter may be different.

[Lead Ringer]

FWIW - The clubs at which I usually shoot monthly matches allow (1)-ONE reshoot for a firearm malfunction per match.

NONE for ammo-related (e.g. squib) issues.

 

This is what I've been use to.

I am now shooting in a different part of the county and they seem to be a little more lieneant at the monthly shoots. They do have a lot less people, usually 12-20 shooters. I am ok with it, but I would hope at any match bigger than monthly they operate under SASS rules?

Ringer

[Rowdy Rex, SASS #71002]

Ever been DQ'd?

 

I'll bet everyone who has been DQ'd remembers it vividly and can tell you every little detail of what happened. You know why? Because it's a shock to the system. At best, it's a bit embarassing. At worse, it was a near-miss (like a round over the berm).

 

Now, I am not suggesting that a guy with bad ammo get DQ'd, but I am pointing out that good judgement comes from bad experiences. A guy lays a gun down with eight or nine rounds in it, it's gonna disappoint him a little but it should motivate him to go home and really examine what he is doing in the reloading room, which could keep him and possibly others from getting hurt. Glossing over it may bring unexpected consequences, like a trip to the E.R..

 

The rules should be vigorously discussed and enforced at the MONTLY matches for all the right reasons.

 

Dang It.

 

 

Dan, I agree with what you are saying. Up here in the PNW most clubs will allow a reshoot for a gun malfunction but not ammo related problems. As hard as we are on our guns I know they are going to break at some point. What I see is several of the same people having problems with guns. These are the folks that never clean or perform preventive maintenence on the guns. I bet that if we stopped giving reshoots folks would take better care of there guns. More than once I have found problems with my guns or parts that were about to fail just by spending a little time taking care of them. The same goes for ammo. If someone eats ten rounds in the rifle because of a back crimp they will take a little more care at the reloading bench.

 

Bad things can happen when our guns are neglected. An example would be the shooter who never cleans the mag tube on the rifle and the tenth round get stuck in the tube. On the firing line the shooter thinks he jacked one out or only loaded 9. It is missed at the unloading table because the round is up in the tube and the ULT officer did not look for the follower. The shoother puts the rifle back in the cart and the round pops out of the mag tube and is ready to chamber. Now we have a real potential for problems.

 

Rowdy

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Everyone is familiar with the local clubs can do what they want "rule." (Which isn't really a rule, bit rather an exemption from the rules.) The question isn't whether they can, it's whether they should. What do people remember? What they are allowed to do on a regular basis or what they are told they MIGHT have to do in the future? Most of the people on this thread go to other than club shoots. How often have you heard after a penalty or warning about equipment is given, "well, that's the way our club does it" or "they let me shoot this this gun at my club?" Who do they get angry with? The ones that let them shoot that way at the local club or the TO that assesses the penalty? Common sense always has to factor into a situation like when dealing with new shooters or children or rules made because of local range rules. However, SASS has developed a good set of rules and you can't go wrong by applying them. You can go wrong, or lead your shooters to go wrong, by ignoring them.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

.... In Texas most of us got enough sense to stand in the shade..if we can find any

 

That is why we wear big hats.

[Sue Render]

ROI also says Don't be a hardass. Give a person a break already at monthly matches. No leeway at annuals and above.

 

Totally agree! If you don't agree with reshoots then don't take one if it is offered when you have had a problem.

[Constable Nelson #11784]

Larsen summmed it up nicely IMO...

[Charlie Whiskers]

Monthly, club annual, or SASS-sanctioned State+ match??

 

REF: SHB p.19 / RO1 p.22

 

 

Queston.....what if the 1st firearm malfunctions and NO 1st round goes down range?Then is a reshoot ok at any SASS level?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Queston.....what if the 1st firearm malfunctions and NO 1st round goes down range?Then is a reshoot ok at any SASS level?

 

That would be considered a re-START.

 

...and the answer is YES.