Back Up Rifle

[Bart Solo]

For the last 10 months I have been shooting a really nice 73 shortstroked and slicked by an extremely well known cowboy smith. Fast, reliable, no bother at all, it is a great rifle. Last night I discovered what happens after a year of weekly (and more) hard use playing cowboy. The gun broke as I was starting to clean it. Not sure what broke (seems it might be a trigger spring) and I don't think it is going to be much of a job to fix. I called this morning and was told to send it in for repair. I did.

 

This brings me to the topic. I have back up Rugers in 45 that are slick as snot and that with Cowboy Specials I can shoot almost as fast as my 38s, and I have a back up tuned shotgun. What I don't have is a back up rifle that can run as fast as my 73 (or even close.) I have a 92 that is real nice but the last time I used it at a match, I out ran it. I don't like the frustration that comes with a gun I can and will outrun.

 

Here is the question I have been pondering all day. What should I do about a back up main match rifle? I really don't want to spend big bucks on another new go fast rifle, but I intend to shoot even more next year. What should I do? I have thought about buying a Marlin or maybe a used 73, but maybe a stock new 73 I might be able to work up over time is a better solution. What do you do for a back up rifle? I think a rifle in 40 or larger caliber would give me some options if I ever wanted to change category.

 

I know one thing, if you shoot enough equipment designed in the 19th century will break down.

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Think the .40 or over would be a good start, possibly same caliber as the rugers but think 45 specials might be hard to make feed.

Is the 92 you out ran slicked up? If so the next obvious choice might be a marlin if you dont want to come off the bucks for another 73. They get pricey real quick.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Back up should be the same. If yer already shooting a 73, get a 73 44/40. Then you can shoot Wild Bunch and real BP if ever choose to. Good Luck

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Bart Solo]

Think the .40 or over would be a good start, possibly same caliber as the rugers but think 45 specials might be hard to make feed.

Is the 92 you out ran slicked up? If so the next obvious choice might be a marlin if you dont want to come off the bucks for another 73. They get pricey real quick.

 

 

Nate slicked up my 92 so I know it is as fast as they run. The last time I used it I ran into problems I never encountered when I was 10 seconds slower.

 

There is a Cowboy Special lifter that drops into a 73 with a little filing work. I understand that some smiths have been able to get a Marlin to run Cowboy Specials.

 

I have also considered 44/40. It is the very best round for black powder.

[Bart Solo]

Back up should be the same. If yer already shooting a 73, get a 73 44/40. Then you can shoot Wild Bunch and real BP if ever choose to. Good Luck

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

You might have hit on my problem with my 92. It isn't that I outrun it so much as it doesn't lever the same.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I know one thing, if you shoot enough equipment designed in the 19th century will break down.

 

Howdy

 

Funny you should mention that. Just last week the firing pin broke in my favorite Trap gun, my Winchester Model 12. The gun was not really designed in the 19th Century, it was first offered in 1912. And mine was made in 1921, so I guess shooting a 90 year old gun every single week will eventually take its toll. For a back up I am using my other Model 12, it is much newer, made in the 1950s.

 

I am lucky enough to own bunches of CAS rifles, about five of them if I recall correctly. None of them are exactly the same as my Main Match rifle, which is an Uberti Henry. For backup I have a Marlin Model 1894, made in 1895, a Winchester Model 1892, made in 1894, and a Winchester Model 1892 made in 1918. I do have an Uberti 1873, but it was made in the 1980s, so it is much too new to shoot. For me there is no other rifle caliber for CAS other than 44-40.

 

Oh, yeah, there's Mrs Johnson's little Marlin short rifle in 357Mag/38Sp for when I feel like being a Smokeless gamer.

[Six-Shot]

I have several rifles in different calibers, different models, etc. that I could use as "back-up". However my so-called "competition" guns are exactly the same . . . same model, same caliber, same sights, same action, same trigger-pull, same lever wraps, same grips, etc. They are so identical that I have to look at the serial numbers to tell which is which. I also have two sets of identical pistols as well as an identical shot gun for "back-up". Sometimes I shoot one set as my "main match" guns and the next match I may shoot the "back-ups" as my "main-match" guns to keep them all well "exercised".

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

If you expect to Compete with back up guns they should be as identical as possible to your main match guns.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

You might have hit on my problem with my 92. It isn't that I outrun it so much as it doesn't lever the same.

Bingo. The '92 has a longer lever throw than your short stroked '73. After you get used the short stroke, it's hard to remember to follow through on the '92. I ran into that recently when I went back to my '92 to 'exercise' it. Had some issues that were pure operator error.

 

You shooting at Powder Creek this Saturday?

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I have two '73 short rifles, one by Cody Conagher and one by Jimmy Spurs. Though they are in different calibers it is hard to tell them apart with dummy rounds but the .38 gets a slight nod over the bigger heavier 44-40. I would like one more '73 short rifle in .45 but finances currently say no.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Bart,

 

I would follow the advice above about getting the SAME type rifle as your main, especially if your wanting to be as competitive.

 

Marlin's are less $$$ and can be modified to run the C45S round. Problem is that I ain't sure any smiths will do the work unless they are very familiar and comfortable with working on modifing the timing. This issue is covered well on Marauders website under 'WiddermAJik Marlin'.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

If you expect to Compete with back up guns they should be as identical as possible to your main match guns.

 

Same thoughts here..

If you want to be competitive..

You don't want to think your backup guns will not perform as good as your main match guns...

That little bit of wonderin'... can cost ya in a match..

 

My yellowboy's.. if I do something to my main match rifle.. I do the same to the backup..

 

On one big match recently.. I mistakenly pulled the backup rifle case out of the stagecoach... I put the rifle on the gun cart..

I was done for the day and when putting them away I saw I had my back up rifle.. That's a good feelin'

 

Rance

Thinkin'.. keepem' the same

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

My back ups are the same make model and configuration as my primary guns. Just that simple. No ammo, parts or other worries brought on by mismatched guns.

[Anvil Al #59168]

If you expect to Compete with back up guns they should be as identical as possible to your main match guns.

 

 

Yep.

 

 

That would be best.

 

But having siad that. When my wife went BW. She had to go Marlin. (which she was shooting anyway.)

So for a backup. She could not use my 73. Had to get another Marlin for her.

 

With limited funds around here. And I can shoot either in my category. So my back up is her back up.

The Marlin.

 

Will get another 73 for me. Maybe this coming year.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

66 in .38-40 WCF...

 

End of story ...

 

 

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Doc Shapiro]

Your backup should be absolutely identical. So much so that you can't tell them apart when shooting.

[Bart Solo]

Bingo. The '92 has a longer lever throw than your short stroked '73. After you get used the short stroke, it's hard to remember to follow through on the '92. I ran into that recently when I went back to my '92 to 'exercise' it. Had some issues that were pure operator error.

 

You shooting at Powder Creek this Saturday?

 

 

I think I will be doing my zen thing in the trees this Saturday. I will be dressed in bright orange sitting quietly, observing nature focusing on being alive, just like one of those buddhist monks. Saturday is the opening of deer season in Missouri.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Your backup should be absolutely identical. So much so that you can't tell them apart when shooting.

 

Exactly...otherwise it's NOT a back-up.

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I will be dressed in bright orange sitting quietly, observing nature focusing on being alive, just like one of those buddhist monks.

Sounds like those people at the airport...

 

Let's catch up at the next match. Have fun this weekend.

[Four Eyes Henry]

We are only allowed 5 guns

 

So, no room for back up guns, but if something happens people always get offered help and guns.

 

"The Cowboy Way"

[Smithy]

Back up should be the same. If yer already shooting a 73, get a 73 44/40. Then you can shoot Wild Bunch and real BP if ever choose to. Good Luck

 

I always shot your second choice a 92, but the back up was a 92. Same for backups on my Bisley Vaqueros. The shotguns were different; An 1887 and a Stoeger SXS. No matter how much I practiced on each, my times suffered when changing from one to the other. Get yourself another 73 and you'll be in business. Smithy.

[Buckshot Frank]

You could always buy a Renegade (if you can still find one). Put some Slix Springs in it and it will be similar enough to your main match '73 but won't cost as much.

 

My wife and I shoot three matches a month and share a '73 carbine, so if it goes down, we are both out. Buying a Renegade was my plan until we found out that she is pregnant. Now, having a back-up rifle has moved down the priority list some .

[Rye Miles #13621]

66 in .38-40 WCF...

 

End of story ...

 

 

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

73 in .44-40....the REAL end of story! Rye

[Shakey Merlot]

Howdy Bart,

 

I don't know. I suppose all them cowboys that are sayin' get a backup rifle exactly like your main one are probably right in some way.

But..............

If you want a real back up rifle, a Spencer in 44-40 is perfect. Sure you won't ever win no speed records but imagine how cool you will look. Besides, we could get on the same posse and rally slow things down. And be the 2 handsomest cowboys shootin'.\

 

Shakey

[Bart Solo]

Howdy Bart,

 

I don't know. I suppose all them cowboys that are sayin' get a backup rifle exactly like your main one are probably right in some way.

But..............

If you want a real back up rifle, a Spencer in 44-40 is perfect. Sure you won't ever win no speed records but imagine how cool you will look. Besides, we could get on the same posse and rally slow things down. And be the 2 handsomest cowboys shootin'.\

 

Shakey

 

 

Shakey, I love watching you shoot your Spencer. It is cool when you have to reload in the middle of a rifle string. I would love to have one if'n I was one of the 1% like you, but you know me, I have a need for speed. On the other hand I am thinking a .40 plus caliber toggle link of some kind would give me some options if I decided to change categories. A Spencer is on my guns to get right after a Sharps for long range side matches.

 

On a serious note, household budgets are not infinite. I want to attend more 2 days next year and I need to conserve my discretionary income to pay for gas, entry fees, and hotel rooms. I am not talking about replacing my main match rifle. I am talking about having something to shoot in the event it breaks it down and it is being repaired. For all the reasons that have been mentioned I think a rifle that is pretty close to my current rifle will do the job, especially if it gives me some additional flexibility. While I think Doc and Phantom are absolutely right as to what I should get if I want to really be competitive, I am not sure my budget can handle it and allow me to do all the other things I want to do. In other words I don't have enough money to have my cake and eat it too.

[Shooting Bull]

..................be the 2 handsomest cowboys shootin'.\

 

Shakey

 

 

I ain't met you or Bart but, I think that MIGHT just be a bit of a stretch.

[Utah Bob #35998]

My main gun is a Henry. My back-up is a Marlin.

Go figger.

[Arizona Redneck 49989]

Exactly...otherwise it's NOT a back-up.

 

 

Howdy,

For whats it's worth I agree. Several years ago I had 2 identical 73's chambered in 357. I was going thru a rough patch ejecting live rounds on every stage and replacing ejectors sometimes twice a month (I was breaking them) a friend suggested I try his 45 colt I said I didant want to shoot that slow so we got out the trusty timmer and for me the times were the same from either caliber? I know some folks will have a different oponion but the timer is not a liar... I quickly traded one of the 357's for a 45 and started having some fun again. I prefer to shoot my 45 over my 357 for a couple of reasons, 1)is I don't need knockdown ammo ever! 2) the bullets are bigger and make more noise when they hit a target, may not mean much to some but I have been accused of only shooting 8 or 9 rounds instead of 10 about 500+ times. 3) The chambers are too big and it will kick out a split case just like any good normal case... There are some downsides to the 45 1) the chambers are way too big good for splits but a royal pain to keep clean. 2) cost is sometimes a third more to load than 357's. I waited until the Saturday before I left for CAC to clean all my guns. I had planned on having my trusty 45 as my match gun and had been shooting it several weeks prior with some minor issues that I blamed on my needing to clean it. Upon disassembly it was not a minor issue the lug was missing on the bottom of the bolt... My good friend and long gun gunsmith Palo Verde was in Tombstone shooting Border Town. Yikes what am I going to do? I cleaned the 357 and loaded it up with a brand new 66 in 45 and headed to Texas. Shot speed rifle 3 or 4 times as well as some other side matches and of corse the main match and the 357 worked flawless except the one rifle miss he he he he. I am very glad that I have one of each caliber for the reasons I mentioned plus I use the 66 mainly as my Wild Bunch rifle. I do have some adjustments I have to make to make the 66 rock but it is better than a totally different model rifle. I know at 1500 plus for one of theese rifles the more options you have makes the pill a little easier to swallow.

 

Best,

AZ Redneck

[Bart Solo]

I ain't met you or Bart but, I think that MIGHT just be a bit of a stretch.

I have met Shakey, and I occasionally look in a mirror, so I can say without any hesitation the word "stretch" gives us way, way too much credit.

 

I will say this about Shakey, he has more genuine fun than any cowboy shooter I know and nearly all the pards I know have a lot of fun. On top of that he and his lady Merlot are great people.

 

He is liable to show up at a match armed with his Spencer. He will shoot 7 shots and reload on the clock, all the time giving a running commentary.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Howdy ;

 

The 66 in .38-40 is a great fit for CC ,,,,,,

 

That said ,,, Colt got it right da first time with da .45 colt ,,,,,, took Winchester a while to improve on da .44-40 but they did with da .38-40 !!!

 

And not everyone has one yet ....

 

 

No cartridge has less Blow-back with Black than the .38-40 or feeds better in a rifle !!!

 

Or Ya could just shoot a 66 in .45 colt ....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Diamond S Doug]

My back up rifle to my 73 is a 92. Why? Because it is what I have. I am fairly new to the sport and haven't yet gotten competitive scores. That means the only reason I am here is to have fun and improve. The 92 allows me to continue to have fun if the 73 breaks. If I were seriously time competitive and/or when I get the funds I wouldn't have a back up. I would have my main match rifle and my other main match rifle (identical).

 

 

[Smithy]

My back up rifle to my 73 is a 92. Why? Because it is what I have. I am fairly new to the sport and haven't yet gotten competitive scores. That means the only reason I am here is to have fun and improve. The 92 allows me to continue to have fun if the 73 breaks. If I were seriously time competitive and/or when I get the funds I wouldn't have a back up. I would have my main match rifle and my other main match rifle (identical).

 

Diamond Doug, don't fret it. The 92 is a mighty fine gun and Braztech are doing them up right. When I started (cash short) I was told be several well meaning pards to drop or sell the 92 and get me a 73 or a 66 (about 50/50 on each). 1,200.00 bucks and then you get to pay a gunsmith to make it shootable. My 92, 30 bucks worth of parts and a day spent reviewing Nate Jones's DVD and I was set with a real sweet shooter. After a bit I bought a 73 and didn't like how the cartridge was held into battery with a pencil thin rod of metal (that and the gun was much heavier). I sold the 73 and stuck with the 92 and didn't feel slighted in the process! Smithy.

[Grizzly Dave]

As others have said, if you want a back up rifle that will allow you to be as competitive as you are with your main rifle, it should be identical.

 

Now if you aren't hyper competitive, then get something else that will allow you to still shoot, maybe not as fast, but still shoot and have fun.

 

Me, I shoot a marlin and love it, but when I get another rifle it will be a 73, and I'll shoot that for a while and the marlin will be a secondary rifle, not a true 'back up.'

[Smithy]

I was curious since I got in on the "early" sell off of the Berretta Renegade, mine in 45 LC. On GunBroker they had one at 750 (still bidding and reserve not met) and the balance were around a grand each. One really proud Renegade owner wanted $5,400.00 for his? I guess it's made of gold or something. I now kind of wish I had kept mine at 700. Money to be made now. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx Smithy.

[Tom Bullweed]

My $100 solution is to buy and carry a full set of parts that are likley to go out: springs, screws, complete bolt w/ extractor. The '73 can be easily be taken down and reassembled in the 30-40 minuutes that it usually takes to shoot a stage. This way you get to continue shooting the main rifle and not have $1000-plus tied up in a rifle that sees little use.

 

(This sounds good in theory but I enjoy shooting original '73 and '92 in monthly matches and using a Uberti '73 in .38 Sepcial for lost-brass events. The idea of leaving .32WCF or .38WCF brass at the stage is painful.)