Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hi Pard, Although I have guns at home that match my main match guns, I never take them to a match. If I shoot Plainsman, I have my '87 as a back up to my '97. I have no other backups. If I shoot WB, I take a .45 rifle as back up to my .38. I have no other backups. Knock on wood, that has been okay so far. BTW, I learned how to fix what someone told me was a typical Marlin jam this weekend. I just pulled the hammer farther back and the bolt released. Regards, Allie "who thinks she might be living on 'the edge' like this" Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Backup rifle? Well, I can't decide whether I like my 73 or my Lightning better, so they're both my main match rifle. I guess that leaves my Spencer as backup to both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtwater Doc 17941 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If your backup is a different caliber be sure it is VERY different to prevent an accident. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 I was curious since I got in on the "early" sell off of the Berretta Renegade, mine in 45 LC. On GunBroker they had one at 750 (still bidding and reserve not met) and the balance were around a grand each. One really proud Renegade owner wanted $5,400.00 for his? I guess it's made of gold or something. I now kind of wish I had kept mine at 700. Money to be made now. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx Smithy. I am not complaining but I do have to wonder if we are letting ourselves down by not demanding more out of Uberti. They charge $1000 plus for a gun that is going to need another $500 in work just to bring it up to snuff. Why don't we demand quality from the factory for $1000 or that the factory sell us something for $750 since we are going to have to hire a smith to make the gun shootable. Instead we all stand around taking it. By the way, the Beretta Renegade (a Uberti) never really took off because it came with a short stroke and a shotgun style butt stock, when cowboy shooters really need a short stroke and a shotgun style butt stock. I wonder why it didn't do better? Too bad the Chaparells have such a bad reputation among people who either bought early production junk or whose only experience with the gun is what they have read on the wire. Uberti needs the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 If your backup is a different caliber be sure it is VERY different to prevent an accident. DD 38 and 45 or 44/40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 38 and 45 or 44/40? .44-40 would be my choice because it's a better rifle cartridge than .45, and especially so if you ever want to shoot black powder. It takes a bit more care to reload than .45, but after you get used to it, it's no big deal. The other issue Bart, is somewhere along the line you mentioned shooting the .45CS in a rifle. That'll give you more options for light loads than .44-40. Depends on what your goals are. In any event, I'd suggest sticking with the toggle link Winchesters ('66 or '73) since you already have a '73. Slicked up or not, those are more similar in feel than your '92, plus those are the only ones that can be converted to .45CS. NOTE: my .44-40 is a '60 Henry which is also a toggle link, but the magazine arrangement is way different than the '66 & '73. You also mentioned changing categories which I assume includes classic cowboy. Another plus for the .38-40 thru .45 cal toggle links. (I will never understand why a '92 Winchesters and internal hammered doubles aren't allowed in CC, but that's another topic...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 .44-40 would be my choice because it's a better rifle cartridge than .45, and especially so if you ever want to shoot black powder. It takes a bit more care to reload than .45, but after you get used to it, it's no big deal. The other issue Bart, is somewhere along the line you mentioned shooting the .45CS in a rifle. That'll give you more options for light loads than .44-40. Depends on what your goals are. In any event, I'd suggest sticking with the toggle link Winchesters ('66 or '73) since you already have a '73. Slicked up or not, those are more similar in feel than your '92, plus those are the only ones that can be converted to .45CS. NOTE: my .44-40 is a '60 Henry which is also a toggle link, but the magazine arrangement is way different than the '66 & '73. You also mentioned changing categories which I assume includes classic cowboy. Another plus for the .38-40 thru .45 cal toggle links. (I will never understand why a '92 Winchesters and internal hammered doubles aren't allowed in CC, but that's another topic...) I have been shooting 45CS out of my 45 Vaqueros quite a bit lately (especially in Higginsville.) I have worked up a pretty good lite load for 180 grain bullets. I am convinced the 45CS is an important improvement over the 45 Colt when playing our game, but I am not telling you anything you don't know, since you and Hondo turned me on to 45CS. I know that Jack sells 45CS carriers for 66 and 73 rifles. All that is necessary to convert a 73 to 45CS is to replace the carrier and to file a little on the end of the left side of the bolt to let it pass the stop. It is easy to convert back to 45 Colt if you want. Just replace the carrier. A lot of smiths tell me that the filing work on the bolt doesn't impact the functioning or strength of the bolt. My only objections to using 45CS in a rifle are lost brass is more expensive and I already have a lot of 45 Colt brass. I haven't tried 45CS in a rifle yet, but if my experience with 45CS in my Vaqueros is comparable consistency at the bottom end of the powder scale (which translates to accuracy) will be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Lessee.... 1. Rossi 92, .44 Special 2. Winchester 73, .32-20 3. Armi San Marco 92, .45 Colt 4. Uberti Henry, .44-40 5. AWA Lightning, .45 Colt 6. Winchester 92, .44 Special These are listed in the order that I purchased them. 2 thru 6 have all been obtained since I started shooting SASS. I pick on based on how I feel at the time that will be my main match rifle at any particular shoot. That becomes then then only rifle I bring. I've never brought a backup, and never had a need. All guns except 3 and 6 are as they came from the factory. 3's action was so horrid it was nearly unusable, but after having it smoothed out, it is one of my best guns. 6 started life as a .44-40 but a previous owner had it rebarrelled with a 17.5" .44 Magnum tube and a "John Wayne" lever. As near as I can tell, no other work has been done to it. So in other words, you don't need a backup, you need a second rifle to add some variety to your fun from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My only objections to using 45CS in a rifle are lost brass is more expensive and I already have a lot of 45 Colt brass. Well, that's an economic question that's part of the equation and only you can decide what priority it has. .38sp is probably the most common caliber, with .45 Colt running second. You can easily scrounge enough of that stuff after a match to make up what you lost. The thing to consider though, is that we've been talking about a back-up rifle. I assume you'll be shooting your .38 rifle most of the time, so how big of a factor is lost brass in a back-up rifle? The other thing to consider is that if you want to say, shoot CC and have light loads, the .45 Colt is a poor choice IMHO. Others may disagree, but that's my opinion. That leaves .38-40 (very uncommon), .44SP (uncommon) .44-40 (more common) and .45 CS (uncommon with rifles). Having said that, both Chauncey Dewey and High Plains Hud shoot CC at our range and shoot .45 cal rifles and are TOP shooters. I'd suggest chatting with them. EDIT: +1 to H. K. Uriah's comment about variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi Pard, Although I have guns at home that match my main match guns, I never take them to a match. If I shoot Plainsman, I have my '87 as a back up to my '97. I have no other backups. If I shoot WB, I take a .45 rifle as back up to my .38. I have no other backups. Knock on wood, that has been okay so far. BTW, I learned how to fix what someone told me was a typical Marlin jam this weekend. I just pulled the hammer farther back and the bolt released. Regards, Allie "who thinks she might be living on 'the edge' like this" Mo I am with you Allie, I have second rifles, second & third shotgun and about 6 deep on pistols if ya throw in C&B, that stay at home. - with backups and backups to backups ya end up with needing a dodge ram 3500 for a gun cart and the darn things just dont turn very well on most stages. Having said that maybe at a really big match that had high entry fees a back up gun would help, but generally a pard will bail ya out if you dont have one especially if ya shoot a common caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curley Cole, SASS #56849 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well there are several "good" answers to that question. I supposed the first one would be to get something very similar to your main rifle. (however myself I like variety) My first backup was my main rifle before I got my 73: I had an old Rossi SRC.... My second backup is my 1866..which sometimes is so much fun to shoot, I start with it first... My third backup is a 1892 SRC...and finally my fourth backup is a 1892 brass frame with a 24" s/s bbl (so ugly I call it the Albatross, but she shoots long real good...) so as you see there is no good answer for this question...just pick one and go to town. curley PS: me and Old Top usually carry backups about 3-4 deep in all gunz, and leather too, don't ever know what may break, and 'sides, a pard may show up needen some arterily. My only rule is if a pard borrows my gun, he/she MUST use my ammo in it. (that way is something breaks it is my fault not theirs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Christmas is over and I am beginning to feel the need for speed. I can't wait for the winter to end. Seeing the revival of this old thread lets me know that others are feeling the same way. Hopefully there will be and I will be able to attend the match at Powder Creek this Saturday. Then I can renew my quest for the wiley back up toggle bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I would recommend that your backup should definitely be the same as your main match rifle, even down to barrel length. My main match rifle is a 20' short rifle and my backup is a 24" and even that difference bothers me when I use it! Also be sure the sights are the same. The front sights are not the same on all the Uberties. Clone them as close as you can, even down to the lever wrap. That being said, there is a case for a caliber switch to either 45 or 44wcf. You may indeed decide to shoot CC, Wild Bunch or BP someday. In a rifle recoil is not really a factor anyway. The downside to this is you have to carry extra ammo in that caliber also. All my rifles and pistols are 44-40's which I believe to be the perfect all around caliber, but in your case and already owning 45 pistols you may be better off getting a 73 in that caliber. It will work for anything you need it to, including BP, and you wouldn't have to add a 3rd caliber. (besides in a pinch 38s are easy to borrow at a match!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Your backup should be absolutely identical. So much so that you can't tell them apart when shooting. Absolutely correct. Use dry fire blindfold tests to prove to yourself they are identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Too bad the Chaparells have such a bad reputation among people who either bought early production junk or whose only experience with the gun is what they have read on the wire. Uberti needs the competition. I can speak from experience. Chaparells have earned the bad rep!! Can't get parts, can't short strokem, The one piece firing pin won't hold up to dry firing and lastly, bad customer service!! As A bounus buy one for $650.00 end up cursing it and try to sell it for $450.00 Hunting, plinking, ya know out of the safe a few times a year to shoot a box or two, probably would be fine . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly SASS #45219 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My back up rifle for my Browning 92 44 is another Browning 92 44. Never needed it. It's still new. DD-DLoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The '73 can easily be stripped down and re-assembled in the normal time it takes a posse to shoot through a stage. The $200 option is a spare of all moving parts, springs, main screws and front sight. If your gun if short-stroked, the removed original parts will get you through a match. The most likely parts to break are the extractor and carrier springs, in my opinion. In 30 minutes you can change every part and continue shooting your gun. For most cowboy matches, the cowboy could shoot just fine without a rear sight if they are a decent shooter. I think that this is a better option than dropping another $1500-1600 for a tuned gun that does not get shot often and probably would just 'feel different'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 For most cowboy matches, the cowboy could shoot just fine without a rear sight if they are a decent shooter. Have you done this? How many misses did you have per stage? What kind of stage times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Howdy, When I had my main match rifle fail and had it fixed and it failed again, I was very happy that I hadnt got around to sellin my old rifle. No the old rifle wasnt the same as the new one but it was familiar and in the same caliber. The most important thing about a backup? HAVE ONE. Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofachique Dick Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I have two 73s, one with a 20" barrel and one with a 24". At the two clubs I shoot at the most I have found I do much better with the short one at one club and the long one at the other (because of the difference in target distance and spacing). So my backup changes from range to range. Just like the clubs, a little variety in rifles is nice. C D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 The '73 can easily be stripped down and re-assembled in the normal time it takes a posse to shoot through a stage. The $200 option is a spare of all moving parts, springs, main screws and front sight. If your gun if short-stroked, the removed original parts will get you through a match. The most likely parts to break are the extractor and carrier springs, in my opinion. In 30 minutes you can change every part and continue shooting your gun. For most cowboy matches, the cowboy could shoot just fine without a rear sight if they are a decent shooter. I think that this is a better option than dropping another $1500-1600 for a tuned gun that does not get shot often and probably would just 'feel different'. The sear wore out on my main match gun. I doubt anybody would think to bring a complete fire control mechanism to a match, nor could it have been fixed on the fly. I once saw a very experienced shooter lose the rear sight on his rifle. Maybe you can shoot without one, but he couldn't and he is a good shot. I have all sorts of back ups. My back up to my 73 is a 92. I love the 92. It has been slicked up by Nate himself, but I tried using the 92 at a match last year and had real problems. The rifle functioned flawlessly, but I didn't. I kept trying to shoot it like my short stroked 73. I am convinced that a lot of people who hate 92s have done the same thing, and blamed the rifle. Totally different stroke, totally different rythmn. This year I am going to acquire a back up 73 or maybe a 66. The only questions are what caliber, what barrel length and what short stroke kit. I understand the reason for buying another one that is exactly the same, but I also enjoy a little variety in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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