Weird - Bottled water not freezing in below freezing temps. UPDATE - GO TO Page 2 and scroll.

[Pat Riot]

My wife loves to leave snacks and bottled water outside for the folks from USPS, FedEx and UPS from Thanksgiving to New Year’s Day.  
A couple of times we have forgotten to bring those items in and they sat overnight in freezing temps and the water did not freeze. 
This morning the temp on my weather app was 23° F. 
I stepped outside, looked at the thermometer, threw some food out for the birds and when I turned I saw the snacks and water sitting there and the water was not frozen!? Weird!

So, I got my laser thermometer and snapped some photos. 
 

Can anyone here explain this? I honestly thought the exterior wall was warm keeping the water from freezing. That is not the case. 
 

Our outdoor thermometer. 

 

 

Our “Snack Station” just outside the front door. 

 

 

The temperature of the water. For some reason the laser dot on the label doesn’t show. 

 

The temperature of the outside wall.

 

 

 

These shots were taken a little before 08:00.

That water is not frozen. I am no thermodynamics specialist or a materials scientist so I cannot explain this one. 
Can you?

 

I am baffled. 

[Null N. Void]

Infrared thermometers are calibrated for dark colors.   Put something black there and then read it.   I'm guessing the heat coming off the house is keeping the bottles from freezing.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

4 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

Infrared thermometers are calibrated for dark colors.   Put something black there and then read it.   I'm guessing the heat coming off the house is keeping the bottles from freezing.

Either that or the anti-freeze in the bottles. 

[Pb Mark]

It is not water. 

 

The label says: purified water, calcium chloride, sodium bicarbonate. 

 

Lots of variables here too.  

[John Kloehr]

To freeze, the water needs to change state from liquid to solid.

 

As the water gets colder, its temperature drops to 32 (freezing temperature). Then more energy needs to come out of the water to freeze it. This is called the heat of fusion. The water stays at 32 until the ice forms, then it can get colder.

 

Removing 4.18 joules of energy will drop 1 gram of water by 1 degree C.

 

But it takes removing 334 joules to switch state from liquid to solid.

 

 

[Null N. Void]

Best check would be to put a kitchen thermometer in the water.  There's not enough minerals in there to significantly affect the  freezing temperature.

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

The water in your bottle is in a sealed container that will actually build pressure as it tries to freeze, the more pressure the lower the temp required for ice crystals to form, open one of those bottles at 23 degrees and I bet you will see ice crystals form almost instantly and if you leave one open you will notice that bottle will freeze while the other sealed bottles stay liquid. You can see the same affect more dramatically in a carbonated beverage like a soda that will be liquid at 20 degrees but the second you open it and release the pressure and carbonation you get covered in a spray of half frozen slush and end up with a bottle of ice mix you can’t drink

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

My theory is that the warm periodic farts from Santa (who is standing in front of the table) are keeping the bottles of water from freezing. 
I would check the chocolate coated snacks, as they may have melted from the same heated exhaust fumes. 

[Pb Mark]

Taking the lid off of one and putting a thermometer in it is a good idea.  

 

You are getting heat into the equation from somewhere.  Probably the house if the bottle sat overnight in the 20-degree freezing weather. 

 

The pressure comment above (look at a water phase diagram) is a good one too.  Just like when you open up a very cold bottle of beer and then it begins to freeze as you bring it up to your mouth.

 

Lots of variables here.  Those nut bars from Sams are great eating too.  

 

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Oh, and by the way @Pat Riot,

  for taking the time to take extensive pictures and posting the elaborate scenario for us, especially in freezing temperatures.

You're   

 

[Michigan Slim]

Freezing temps? He stepped out his door! He isn't on some North Pole expedition! 

 

Seriously though. I leave a bottled water in my deer hut and it has not frozen yet, even though the temps here are about the same as yours Pat. The pressure explanation above is spot on. Leave one open next to a sealed one. Check in with us tomorrow with more 8x10 color glossy photos with x's and arrows and a full paragraph on the back of each one. 

[Alpo]

Just now, Michigan Slim said:

Check in with us tomorrow with more 8x10 color glossy photos with x's and arrows and a full paragraph on the back of each one. 

He can't do that. Thanksgiving was last month.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

52 minutes ago, Alpo said:

He can't do that. Thanksgiving was last month.

I’m sure Officer Obie would oblige…

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

He can't do that. Thanksgiving was last month.

 

Changes one word and thinks it'll just slide right by. 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I’m sure Officer Obie would oblige…

 

Friends Obie was...

 

Now I'm doing it. Thanks Slim...both of ya's.

[Cypress Sun]

 

Sorry

 

Back to the frozen water thing. I wonder how the nut bars taste when frozen.

[Pat Riot]

36 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Sorry

 

Back to the frozen water thing. I wonder how the nut bars taste when frozen.

Actually, they’re pretty good. 

 

 

 

I may do as suggested and open a bottle and put it out there. 
 

When I bought my laser thermometer I was told color doesn’t matter. 

[Null N. Void]

They lied.   They use radiatioin heat transfer and there is an emission coefficent that depends on the material and color of what your scanning.  Most are set for darker shades.  It's close enough in most cases but white or silver can be a problem.

 

 I was using one to check that my RV was not freezing.   I checked it at about 35 derees true outside temperature.   The white skin of the RV read about 20. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

https://www.wtamu.edu/~cbaird/sq/mobile/2013/12/09/can-water-stay-liquid-below-zero-degrees-celsius/

[Eyesa Horg]

That was informative 

[Pat Riot]

5 hours ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

The water in your bottle is in a sealed container that will actually build pressure as it tries to freeze, the more pressure the lower the temp required for ice crystals to form, open one of those bottles at 23 degrees and I bet you will see ice crystals form almost instantly and if you leave one open you will notice that bottle will freeze while the other sealed bottles stay liquid. You can see the same affect more dramatically in a carbonated beverage like a soda that will be liquid at 20 degrees but the second you open it and release the pressure and carbonation you get covered in a spray of half frozen slush and end up with a bottle of ice mix you can’t drink

Your comment made sense to me. The article @Subdeacon Joe posted above pretty much confirms it. 
 

 

 

If I remember to do it I am going to:

- put a bottle out with the lid off

- take 2 temps in the morning. I have a mercury like thermometer and the laser one. I will see if they show a difference.

- I will add arrows and circles with an essay on the back of at least one photo I take. 
 

 

If I post a photo can I go to the dark web to write on the back of the photo? 

[Null N. Void]

The air space above the water will continue to decrease in pressure as the temperature drops.  P1/T1= P2/T2. (Charles Law)

  As it cools down, the pressure in the vapor space will continue to go down..  There isn't much pressure to start with in a water bottle.  You.d have to add pressure to the bottle to keep the water from freezing..

[Blackwater 53393]

If you’re up to it, when you go out in the morning, set your camera/phone to VIDEO. Open one of the water bottles and capture what it does when it’s opened.

 

If the temperature is right, it’ll frost up and turn to slush, starting at the bottom, usually.

[Texas Joker]

Ice crystal needs a focus point to start. Still water that is purified has few necleods to cuse crystal formation.

 

Like superheated water that doesn't boil until disturbed then it explodes.

 

If the water is sub freezing but still liquid thump it and watch it flash freeze.

 

It's way cool to watch.

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

If you’re up to it, when you go out in the morning, set your camera/phone to VIDEO. Open one of the water bottles and capture what it does when it’s opened.

 

If the temperature is right, it’ll frost up and turn to slush, starting at the bottom, usually.

That’s a good idea too. Thank you. 

[Buckshot Bear]

Its Vodka  

[Null N. Void]

Could be supercooled.  Hard to see with the additives, but you never know.  If it is, a small piece of anything would start ice formation. Agitation would also start ice formation.

[Maddog McCoy SASS #5672]

Now that we know water will not freeze when cold, can somebody please explain why water will not boil when watched. A 10 page dissertation with illustrations and graphs will be due by Friday at 3:30 pm.  All papers turned in on Monday will automatically have their grade reduced by one letter grade. Late papers will not be accepted after Wednesday  at 3:30 pm. All papers are to be typed with double spacing, Ariai font and 12 pint letter size.

[Rip Snorter]

Time flow is subjective.  From earliest days, I was told "A watched pot never boils".  Not true, of course, just seems that way.

[Pat Riot]

I watched a pot of water on the fire. It did boil, amazingly enough. 
 

There. That’s my submission 2 days before Friday. 
I shall have an A+ and a hot black coffee.

Bottles, my good man, coffee please. 

[Texas Joker]

It's a quantum physics thing. While being watched the water is a superposed outcome of both boiling and not. When you look away the waveform collapses into the most likely outcome. If sufficient heat has been present when you look back you notice the bubbles of the other option leaving.

[Rip Snorter]

The Cat knows!

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Maddog McCoy SASS #5672 said:

All papers are to be typed with double spacing, Ariai font and 12 pint letter size.

Does spelling count?

[Alpo]

By the way. If the papers are to be typed, they will either be pica or elite - you don't have the choice of arial - and you don't have a choice of print size.

 

Now if you required the papers to be printed, you can specify the font and the size.

 

Neener neener neener.

[Null N. Void]

I checked my infrared thermometer.  It compensates for color and material, so that's probably not the issue.

 

I would guess the plastic surface is what the thermometer is reading, but not the temperature of the water behind the plastic.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Surely the mighty Wizard of OZ will know the answer to this conundrum.