Hurricane damaged EVs in Florida.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Caught some on Local news Friday and decided to look up more on this subject.

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

12 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Caught some on Local news Friday and decided to look up more on this subject.

 

They are asking the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for guidance?

 

I have a sign on my wall:

 

"Don't Question Authority.

They Don't Know Either."

[Rip Snorter]

Dam', last I looked, salt water just wrecked gas and diesel vehicles, it didn't turn them into incendiary bombs.  A great environmental success, not!

[Eyesa Horg]

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Caught some on Local news Friday and decided to look up more on this subject.

 

The houses will start burning down soon when power is restored. Yup, much better for the environment and infrastructure. In 50+ years of driving, none of my CE vehicles has spontaneously combusted or ever caught fire in any way. Good thing most are parked outside or in a garage, not in the house like an electric scooter Segway. 

[Warden Callaway]

They look to be far more dangerous than the Pinto or Corvair.  Why aren't they outlawed?

[Cypress Sun]

 

It's not just larger EV's that are having the problem. It's anything with a lithium type battery. It's been happening to golf-type carts, atv's and the like, that were flooded or people were stupid enough to go driving around in salt water flooded areas.

 

It gets even worse as many EV's and ICV's that were salt water flooded will be sold to unsuspecting buyers. They are ticking time bombs. Once any vehicle has had salt water intrusion into the electronics or has gotten into body cavities...it's done, it's just a matter of time. Same thing with all of those 1st responder vehicles (including fire trucks) that were driven through salt water flooded areas under the guise of "rescuing" people from knee deep water.  What vehicle doesn't have the electronics eventually fry or deteriorate will rust out in short time.

[Phantom Falcon, SASS # 46139]

Just more reasons not to buy these useless, worthless, subsidized white elephants. Tow them to biden's house and let that useful idiot take care of them. 

 

PF

[Blackwater 53393]

2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

They look to be far more dangerous than the Pinto or Corvair.  Why aren't they outlawed?

They didn’t outlaw the Corvair or the Pinto.

 

It is important to note that they also weren’t trying to make everyone buy Pintos or Corvairs either!!

 

The likelihood of anyone in the gooberment suggesting that they outlaw their “environmental darling” is far more remote!!

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

Yeah, and 12x the amount of water to douse them is environmentally sound too.

[Warden Callaway]

2 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

They didn’t outlaw the Corvair or the Pinto.

I didn't say they outlawed them. But they beat them to death.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Now now, don't you guys be telling everybody just how bad EVs are, you'll upset Subdeacon Joe. He thinks that they're the bestest thing ever! 

[Pat Riot]

Here in WV there are a few Teslas and other brands of EVs. Not many as compared to other places I have been. I found out last winter that when temps drop below freezing and stay that way for extended periods the cars will not charge properly and the most charge they will take is about half of what they normally would if they take a charge at all. 
I overheard a guy that owned a Nissan Leaf say that his car basically sat in the garage for a couple of months.

 

Also the EVs I see around here mostly belong to out of state college students. 

 

 

[watab kid]

4 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

They look to be far more dangerous than the Pinto or Corvair.  Why aren't they outlawed?

i was thinking the same thing ralph nader class action suit should make some people rich and maybe we need to rethink ;letting government officials tell us what we can and cannot buy , what is good for us , who the hell let them start all this crap anyway , 

[Warden Callaway]

Just seen an ad flash before my eyes.  Buy this EV and get $7,500 tax credit. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/are-electric-vehicles-more-likely-to-catch-on-fire/

 

[Ozark Huckleberry]

9 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/are-electric-vehicles-more-likely-to-catch-on-fire/

 

Out of context -- the point of the thread is the apparent preponderance of EV batteries to combust after exposure to salt water. The posted article (and other articles promoting EV battery safety) completely omits that cause and refers only to non-immersive fires.

 

Some criticism of the article, however:

 

1 - The article describes possible non-immersion causes for fires (e.g., collisions) but does not disaggregate the data along those lines. It's only logical that with EVs representing  <1% of vehicles on the road, there would be substantially fewer crash-related vehicle fires.

 

2.The article refers to the incidence of vehicles catching fire in terms of incidents per 100,000 vehicles. It might provide a better comparison if it referenced the numbers per 100,000 (1,000,000,000?) miles of travel since the annual average mileage of EVs is far below that of ICEs. Tesla estimates that gas vehicles are 11 times more likely to catch fire than a Tesla, but that returns us back to point #1. ETA -- other factors to be considered is the difference in age, and the likely difference in maintenance status, between EVs and ICEs -- EVs are more likely to be less than 5 years old, maintained only by professional service centers, and returned for maintenance at regular intervals.

 

3. EV fires seem to tend toward catastrophic proportions, with approximately 6-10 times the amount of water required to quench them AND a distinct possibility of re-ignition. The article naively recommends a fire extinguisher be carried to deal with vehicle fires. While there are many ICE fires that have been extinguished with a hand-held fire extinguisher, it strains credulity to consider a hand-held fire extinguisher would be equal to the task of extinguishing an EV fire.

 

But enough of the generalized fire danger issue -- back to the thread topic: Hurricane-damaged EVs in Florida.

[Texas Maverick]

20 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Caught some on Local news Friday and decided to look up more on this subject.

 

Makes you just wanta run right out and buy one. NOT

 

TM

[Sedalia Dave]

There will be thousands more ICE that were immersed in flood waters resold to unsuspecting buyers. Happenes after every major hurricane. Flood damaged cars are supposed to be scrapped but they wind up shipped across country and sold to unspecting buyers. The buyers then have to deal with all the issues caused by water intrusion induced corrosion. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

There will be thousands more ICE that were immersed in flood waters resold to unsuspecting buyers. Happenes after every major hurricane. Flood damaged cars are supposed to be scrapped but they wind up shipped across country and sold to unspecting buyers. The buyers then have to deal with all the issues caused by water intrusion induced corrosion. 

At least that won't be a problem with flooded EVs, because they'll just explode.

[Cypress Sun]

25 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

At least that won't be a problem with flooded EVs, because they'll just explode.

 

Not all of them explode, in fact, none of them explode. A few short out quickly due to salt water intrusion...the rest that were immersed are ticking time bombs.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

2 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Not all of them explode, in fact, none of them explode. A few short out quickly due to salt water intrusion...the rest that were immersed are ticking time bombs.

Okay, not explode. But they DO go up in a huge fireball.

[Eyesa Horg]

1 minute ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Okay, not explode. But they DO go up in a huge fireball.

Just what you want in your garage.

[Texas Maverick]

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Just what you want in your garage.

Something I will never have to worry about cuz I ain't buying any EV POS.

 

TM

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Okay, not explode. But they DO go up in a huge fireball.

 

2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Just what you want in your garage.

 

Like the multiple recalls over the years for Ford vehicles spontaneously catch fire while not in use. 

 

FIRE RISK: Ford Tells 200,000 SUV Owners To Park Outside

 

 

Quote

 

Ford is telling owners of some of its most popular, current, internal combustion powered SUVs to park their vehicles outside after a series of engine fires that happened even when the ignition switches were off.

Back in May, Ford recalled nearly 40,000 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator SUVs after telling owners to park them outdoors and away from homes and other buildings. On Friday, the company expanded that recall to cover more than 66,000 vehicles from the 2021 model year after getting reports of five more fires — and that’s not even the half of it. The company also announced Friday that it’s recalling yet another 100,000 SUVs in the US alone for. A. Different. Problem. That also causes engine fires.

 

 

 

 

Ford recalls SUVs due to engine fire risk, says they should be parked outdoors

 

 

Quote

Ford says in U.S. government documents posted Thursday that it doesn’t know what’s causing fires in some 2021 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator SUVs.

But the company says fires can happen even while the engines are off. Ford has reports of 16 fires under the hood, 14 in rental company vehicles. One person was burned. It’s recommending that the SUVs be parked outdoors and away from buildings. So far it hasn’t developed a repair for the fires, which appear to start at the back of the engine compartment on the passenger side.

Of the 16 fires, 12 happened while the SUV engines were turned off,

 

 

 

Ford Escape and Bronco Sport SUVs Recalled for Fire Risk

 

Ford recalls more than 140K SUVs over fire risk related to sensors

 

Quote

The company said in a statement that customers who own certain Lincoln MKC vehicles from model years 2015-19 should park their vehicles outside and away from structures while Ford supplies its dealers and Lincoln retailers with the parts and repair instructions needed to fix the issue. 

 

 

Ford is recalling more than 125,000 Escape SUVs, Maverick pickups and Lincoln Corsair luxury SUVs because their engines could leak fluids and catch fire.

 

Quote

All three models share similar engineering. Because of a manufacturing problem, the 2.5-liter gasoline engines can leak engine oil or gasoline vapors that can catch fire when they contact hot parts in the vehicles’ engine compartment. 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Yup, the brake light switch! At least they got recalled! Our fire dept won't even try to put out a Tesla and the junk yards have to put em in concrete vaults. Wonderful!

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Connecting back to the thread topic -- it brings me to wonder -- just how much immersion could an EV be expected to safely tolerate?

 

If you watch news footage, or have ever lived where there's been any kind of water over the roadway, you've seen (or even participated in) a little bit of driving through water. For some people, it can even come to the point of being a matter of escaping/surviving or not.

 

I've driven through flood water that was up to the floorboard; I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can describe driving through even deeper water.

 

So with an EV -- what depth of water do you dare ford? Do you care if it's fresh or salt, as far as combustion danger goes?

 

Anyone have any info?

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Exploding or just sudden engulfed in flames? I don't know but wouldn't want to be near one.

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Exploding or just sudden engulfed in flames? I don't know but wouldn't want to be near one.

Can't blame the car. It's that cheap Chinese electricity.

[Sedalia Dave]

10 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Exploding or just sudden engulfed in flames? I don't know but wouldn't want to be near one.

 

9 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Can't blame the car. It's that cheap Chinese electricity.

 

Given China's propensity for counterfeits, Are we even sure its actually a Tesla or a cheap knockoff.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Given China's propensity for counterfeits, Are we even sure its actually a Tesla or a cheap knockoff.

Well it wouldn't be an expensive knockoff.

[Cypress Sun]

Since Tesla has a factory in Shanghai, I doubt that it is a fake.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I dont care - batteries and electricity are not frightening.

No more dangerous than fuel vapor or gas leaks.

I can read and understand the actual level of risk (not listening to the doom and gloomers and click bait articles) and can do the math to determine the economics of gas vs EV (again by doing actual math - not getting my information from Jurassic era curmudgeons on an online forum).

 

I fully plan to purchase an EV for Painted Lady within the next 12 months (narrowed down to either a new Blazer EV, Mustang Mach E or Kia EV6).

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

9 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

batteries and electricity are not frightening.

A car battery and water are fine. From what I understand, it's a lithium-ion battery submerged in salt water that's the problem here. 

I don't have a problem with EVs in general, but I get annoyed at those that try to tell us the they're The Answer to Global Warming. That, and government trying to mandate they're usage. 

Anybody that wants an EV, more power to you. Just don't try to force one on me.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 minute ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

A car battery and water are fine. From what I understand, it's a lithium-ion battery submerged in salt water that's the problem here. 

I don't have a problem with EVs in general, but I get annoyed at those that try to tell us the they're The Answer to Global Warming. That, and government trying to mandate they're usage. 

Anybody that wants an EV, more power to you. Just don't try to force one on me.

I'm not 100% convinced that the salt water Lithium thing is "a thing" either.  Even the hand wavers in the posted video admit the issues with EVs were no more common than with gasoline vehicles.

 

And heck, I live in Nevada - until California falls into the Pacific - salt water is the least of my worries. 

 

I will acknowledge that it does seem when EVs fail - they do so in spectacular fashion; but I don't even know for sure how much of that is true or reporting bias. 

Remember, a dog (gas vehicle) biting a man (bursting into flames) is not news. 

A man (EV) biting a dog (bursting into flames) is.

 

The electric vehicle is not the solution to all of the worlds ills - it will not repopulate the polar bear or replenish the polar ice caps.

It exchanges pollution from many sources (individual vehicles) for centralized pollution from a power plant (now granted, that power plants pollution may take different forms from that coming from a tail pipe - but there is always pollution/ environmental impact of some sort).

 

But that aside; the electric platform (even in its current infancy) is superior to gasoline in every single objective measure - the ONLY places where gasoline is superior is infrastructure for fueling, battery capacity and speed of recharge.  

 

And I think that just like computers 20 years ago - the leaps and progressions in EV technology over the next 10 years (infrastructure, batteries {including recycling and disposal}, charging speed and capacity) will so quickly surpass the status quo (gasoline); that adoption is nearly inevitable.

 

But instead of being reviled; EV adoption WILL be a positive for all drivers - it will FORCE the US to upgrade and fortify our aging power grid.  It will force the building and use of clean, safe nuclear power plants - it will lower demand for fossil fuels which may force certain middle east economies dependent upon its continued sale to lower prices.

It will further the safety and security of the US because when our power creation can be diversified and fully satisfied within our borders (coal, wind, hydro electric, solar, nuclear) - our freedom of movement and transport cannot be held hostage by hostile trading partners.

 

Now honestly I don't believe gasoline powered vehicles are going away in our lifetimes - but I do think that just like the horse after the auto came on scene - it's possible its usage will change.  I can see a scenario where gasoline vehicles become status symbols, "toys" or sporting equipment.

 

The market will ultimately determine how widely and how quickly EV adoption occurs - and it is still possible that a differing fuel source may rise up (Hydrogen fuel cells for example), but the internal combustion engine has likely reached its zenith.

[Blackwater 53393]

I watched a news segment last night with great interest. Here in a “suburb” of Nashville yesterday, in the parking lot of the Nissan National Corporate Headquarters, a Nissan Leaf that was being charged on the company’s equipment, caught fire and burned.

 

I found the incident ironic. Not because of the location, although there is a good quantity of irony in that, but because the claim was made that the car was left on the charger for too long!

 

My battery chargers have a design feature that shuts down the charger when full charge is reached! They’re not expensive chargers by most standards, although one is a professional quality, shop grade charger.

 

It would seem that they neglected to include an automatic shutdown feature in the design of either the car or the charger, or both!! The customer is paying thousands of dollars for the vehicle! The logic escapes me!  You buy the car and you have the required charging equipment installed in your home and then you have to mind/monitor the charging operation to keep the car and your home from being destroyed buy the failure of the system to shut itself off? Or you have to leave your work station to go back and disconnect your car from the charger provided by the company to prevent the car and the charger from burning up in the parking lot? Who’s designing these things, Rube Goldburg??

 

Add to all this the fact that the fire department had to remain on the scene for SIX HOURS  to fully extinguish the fire and to be sure that it didn’t reignite! It required more than five times the amount of water to put it out and KEEP it out and they mentioned in the news segment that it would have to be watched for much longer to be sure that it didn’t flare up again!

 

It is fortunate that this happened in an open parking lot and not down town in a parking garage or worse, in an underground parking garage like those in many office towers, hotels, or a hospital!

 

There’s a few things about these EVs that are in serious need of more refinement before they become the standard for transportation!!