Question for the Law Enforcement Officers

[Pat Riot, SASS #13748]

There is a term used on many TV police and crime shows that to me, just plain sounds stupid. The term is “through and through” as in someone is shot and the bullet passes completely through and exits the body. 
Is this a term that police and emergency responders use or is it purely a fictional term used to make actors sound knowledgeable on these shows? 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I never used that saying and don't recall hearing it used.

[Alpo]

One I've wondered about for a while, and hear more and more often on the tube, is GSW.

 

Now I am fully aware that it means gunshot wound. But if I was standing over the corpse and someone asked me how he died, I would say something more along the lines of "shot in the chest" instead of "GSW to the chest".

 

I don't know - it just sounds -- hokey.

 

It's like if someone gets hit with a club, they say blunt force trauma. Not BFT - blunt force trauma. So if they've got to be all precise and technical, why don't they say gunshot wound?

[Subdeacon Joe]

From dictionary.com

 

"In every part or aspect, throughout. For example, I was wet through and through, or He was a success through and through. This idiom originally was used to indicate literally penetration, as by a sword. The figurative usage was first recorded in 1410."

 

Another site says in forensics it  is used to mean both entry and exit wounds.  

[Pat Riot, SASS #13748]

Through and through still sounds silly regarding a bullet passing through a victim or bad guy. 
I have heard “shot clean through” or “the bullet passed through…” 

 

[Dantankerous]

Through and through...

 

Did the bullet go through the person, turn around and come back and go through again?

 

Stupid phrase.

 

GSW works much better.

 

 

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

I never used it or heard it used, but please understand that police lingo tends to be very regional.  A lot of TV shows are based in the NYPD, and I've heard from some folks that the TV lingo actually comes from them.  I never heard terms such as "perp," but NYPD actually uses it.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Hmmm...it would seem that the meaning of completely through - entry and exit wounds - goes back a bit.

 

 

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

      And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

      The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun

      The frumious Bandersnatch!”

 

He took his vorpal sword in hand;

      Long time the manxome foe he sought—

So rested he by the Tumtum tree

      And stood awhile in thought.

 

And, as in uffish thought he stood,

      The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,

Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,

      And burbled as it came!

 

One, two! One, two! And through and through

      The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!

He left it dead, and with its head

      He went galumphing back.

 

[Rip Snorter]

37 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

Hmmm...it would seem that the meaning of completely through - entry and exit wounds - goes back a bit.

 

 

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves

      Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

All mimsy were the borogoves,

      And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!

      The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun

      The frumious Bandersnatch!”

 

He took his vorpal sword in hand;

      Long time the manxome foe he sought—

So rested he by the Tumtum tree

      And stood awhile in thought.

 

And, as in uffish thought he stood,

      The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,

Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,

      And burbled as it came!

 

One, two! One, two! And through and through

      The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!

He left it dead, and with its head

      He went galumphing back.

 

Works for me, guns are fine but blades are personal.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Ve seen the term used by coroners. I never had much contact with homicide detectives. But TV still uses the antique ‘Put out an APB” phrase from the 30s. It always makes me chuckle.

Most things on CSI and NCIS make me chuckle. I don’t watch the much.

[sassnetguy50]

1 hour ago, Dantankerous said:

Through and through...

 

Did the bullet go through the person, turn around and come back and go through again?

 

Stupid phrase.

 

GSW works much better.

 

 

Through the front skin and then went straight through the back skin.  Not through the body and through the body again.

[Alpo]

Perp. That is such a dumb term.

 

First time I heard it was one of the lethal weapons. Chris Rock was Danny Glover's daughter's boyfriend. And he was a cop. He was in the backseat of the car, because Riggs and Murtaugh were in the front, and Joe Pesci saw him and wanted to know who the perp was.

 

The term is now all over the internet. I feel that if a cop uses it it's acceptable - still dumb - but if a non cop uses it it's just idiotic.

 

A term I'm much prefer is doer. Not sure where I picked it up from, but I like it better.

 

Today I got a email from Home Depot. They no longer talk about a DIYer. He's now a doer.

 

"Presents for the doer in your life."

[Utah Bob #35998]

9 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Perp. That is such a dumb term.

 

First time I heard it was one of the lethal weapons. Chris Rock was Danny Glover's daughter's boyfriend. And he was a cop. He was in the backseat of the car, because Riggs and Murtaugh were in the front, and Joe Pesci saw him and wanted to know who the perp was.

 

The term is now all over the internet. I feel that if a cop uses it it's acceptable - still dumb - but if a non cop uses it it's just idiotic.

 

A term I'm much prefer is doer. Not sure where I picked it up from, but I like it better.

 

Today I got a email from Home Depot. They no longer talk about a DIYer. He's now a doer.

 

"Presents for the doer in your life."

 Americans have no patience these days. Everything must be shortened. We seem to be obsessed with jargon and weird contractions especially for any word over two syllables. Perpetrator becomes Perp or Actor. Even . Babe became Bae. The English language is being eroded daily.

[Henry T Harrison]

We never used any of those silly abbreviations and my wife loves those phony police shows like NCIS which I hate and laugh at

Edited December 21, 2022 by Henry T Harrison

[Pat Riot, SASS #13748]

1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Ve seen the term used by coroners. I never had much contact with homicide detectives. But TV still uses the antique ‘Put out an APB” phrase from the 30s. It always makes me chuckle.

Most things on CSI and NCIS make me chuckle. I don’t watch the much.

 

9 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

We never used any of those silly abbreviations and my wife loves those phony police shows like NCIS which I hate and laugh at

Funny you should mention those shows. This is where I keep hearing that term. My wife loves NCIS, CSI, CSI Miami and so on. I watch them with her, but man, sometimes I want to jump through the TV and choke those people. I really have to bite my tongue sometimes, but I watch them with her because lord knows, she has put up with all my Sci-Fi and Star Trek for many years. It’s the least I can do…without too much complaining. 
 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

33 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

Funny you should mention those shows. This is where I keep hearing that term. My wife loves NCIS, CSI, CSI Miami and so on. I watch them with her, but man, sometimes I want to jump through the TV and choke those people. I really have to bite my tongue sometimes, but I watch them with her because lord knows, she has put up with all my Sci-Fi and Star Trek for many years. It’s the least I can do…without too much complaining. 
 

 

It’s common to get police department applications and inquiries from young folks who want to be crime scene investigators because of those shows. They are disappointed when they find out they don’t get to carry a gun, solve crimes and arrest people. 
 

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

Saw it on autopsy reports.  Never used it in person.  

 

Did a few reports with penetrate or perforate regarding bullet wounds and other injuries.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

15 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

We never used any of those silly abbreviations and my wife loves those phony police shows like NCIS which I hate and laugh at

 

we're into British shows a lot now.  The abbreviate even more than we do here in the colonies

[Subdeacon Joe]

14 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

They are disappointed when they find out they don’t get to carry a gun, solve crimes and arrest people. 
 

 

And that three quarters of their work will be writing reports and filling out forms.

[Pat Riot, SASS #13748]

4 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

And that three quarters of their work will be writing reports and filling out forms.

No kidding! If police shows were accurate there would be a lot of boring paperwork and court appearances. 
 

When I worked in Charlotte we had one officer in the Transit Division that literally lost 2 or 3 days a week a couple of times a month for nearly a year due to court appearances for a huge accident that occurred that he investigated due to all the people suing a trucking company. I don’t recall details but he spent a lot of time in court and doing hearing prep. 
Excitement, Thrills and Chills! 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I love how the crime scene tech comes in and provides the missing piece of amazing scientific evidence just when you've run out of leads.  In reality, the report will end up in you're mail box a year later and you will have completely forgotten about the case and have to look it up to see if it makes any difference.  I've had the state crime lab call a year later and ask if the DNA analysis was still needed because they were backed up and hadn't gotten to it yet.

[The Shoer 27979]

But wait, them TV cops can solve a case in 1 hour or 2 if it is a to be continued  lol

[Eyesa Horg]

When I was burgled several years ago , I showed the Statey a full hand print on our headboard and the tire tracks in the driveway. He looked at me dumbfounded and said I watch too much CSI. I found the crooks a week later. The judge let em go and they went on to occupied home invasions. Gotta love our justice system. If I ever do something really stupid, remind me to tell them I'm a criminal; otherwise I'll go to prison!

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

18 hours ago, Alpo said:

"Presents for the doer in your life."

 

Or for the dour. Cheer 'em up.

[Dantankerous]

Back in the early 90's around here the copjargon for perp was scroatbag.

 

Not flattering.

[John E. Law]

Been a deputy going on 29 years. We don't use any of those terms. We do talk in signal and ten codes when taking to other deputies but those are regional and can be different even among local agencies. I've worked and supervised in patrol and investigations both persons and property crimes so I've writhed my share of cases. I transferred to the courthouse just after covid and have never heard any other LEO agencies or attornies use these either. Like LawMan Mark said I've seen GSW on autopsy reports but never in our reports or spoken. Cyrus was also correct on regional lingo.  My family has worked for Chicago PD and they use different terms. I also have a lot of retired NYPD who work for me as court deputies now and they use "collar" for arrest and "perp", but that's all I've heard. 

 

I don't watch cop shows mainly for this reason,  they all just look and sound wannabe to me and the one days cases solved by crime scene techs make me laugh. 

 

JEL

 

 

[Alpo]

They had a Castle episode. Looking at a guy in interrogation, and Castle referred him as a perp.

 

Esposito asked why he called him backTHAT. Castle said, "Isn't that what you call them?"

 

Esposito said that they had lots of names for them, and he and Ryan started rattling off a whole bunch of insulting terms. Then Captain Montgomery stuck his nose in, and said that he was old school. He preferred dirtbag. Then Esposito and Ryan took off again with some more insulting names.

 

And Beckett interrupted them. "Suspects. We call them suspects."

 

I liked that.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Alpo
just noticed otto's change

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

17 hours ago, John E. Law said:

Been a deputy going on 29 years. We don't use any of those terms. We do talk in signal and ten codes when taking to other deputies but those are regional and can be different even among local agencies. I've worked and supervised in patrol and investigations both persons and property crimes so I've writhed my share of cases. I transferred to the courthouse just after covid and have never heard any other LEO agencies or attornies use these either. Like LawMan Mark said I've seen GSW on autopsy reports but never in our reports or spoken. Cyrus was also correct on regional lingo.  My family has worked for Chicago PD and they use different terms. I also have a lot of retired NYPD who work for me as court deputies now and they use "collar" for arrest and "perp", but that's all I've heard. 

 

I don't watch cop shows mainly for this reason,  they all just look and sound wannabe to me and the one days cases solved by crime scene techs make me laugh. 

 

JEL

 

 

 

In my area, an arrest was a "pinch" and a perpetrator was either a "suspect" or a "bandit."

[Badlands Bob #61228]

We referred to perpetrators as dirtbags, maggots or bad guys, among other things.  Only rookies from up North used the terminology "perps".

[Alpo]

On 12/21/2022 at 3:46 PM, Eyesa Horg said:

When I was burgled several years ago , I showed the Statey a full hand print on our headboard and the tire tracks in the driveway. He looked at me dumbfounded and said I watch too much CSI

My mother's house was "attempted burglarized". Guy broke a window, but it was double pane insulated glass, and the outer pain had a hole about the size of the softball while the inner pain had a hole about the size of a golf ball. And there was blood on the patio. So we had three uniform cops and four plain clothes (must have been a slow night), and they took samples of the blood. I asked if they were going to do DNA, and they told me they only do that when someone gets killed. Unless there's a death involved they don't bother with DNA. Which did make me wonder why they bothered taking the blood samples.

[Eyesa Horg]

35 minutes ago, Alpo said:

My mother's house was "attempted burglarized". Guy broke a window, but it was double pane insulated glass, and the outer pain had a hole about the size of the softball while the inner pain had a hole about the size of a golf ball. And there was blood on the patio. So we had three uniform cops and four plain clothes (must have been a slow night), and they took samples of the blood. I asked if they were going to do DNA, and they told me they only do that when someone gets killed. Unless there's a death involved they don't bother with DNA. Which did make me wonder why they bothered taking the blood samples.

To give the impression they were actually going to do something since they were all there! Cops are so busy, they don't have time to deal with a petty burglary, but still have to make it look good!

[John E. Law]

16 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

We referred to perpetrators as dirtbags, maggots or bad guys, among other things.  Only rookies from up North used the terminology "perps".

You have to remember were in a WOKE PC world. Calling suspects and offenders offensive names can get you in trouble.

 

Read the PREA (prison rape elimination act) for what can happen if you even make a comment that's deemed sexually offensive and is just overheard... it can spark a federal investigation. 

 

JEL

[Badlands Bob #61228]

1 hour ago, John E. Law said:

You have to remember were in a WOKE PC world. Calling suspects and offenders offensive names can get you in trouble.

 

Read the PREA (prison rape elimination act) for what can happen if you even make a comment that's deemed sexually offensive and is just overheard... it can spark a federal investigation. 

 

JEL

I am grateful that my 35 year career was during a different time.  I don't think I would survive in this environment.  I retired 7 years ago and it was already starting to turn.  I really had to bite my lip that last 18 months or so.  

[Pat Riot, SASS #13748]

1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I am grateful that my 35 year career was during a different time.  I don't think I would survive in this environment.  I retired 7 years ago and it was already starting to turn.  I really had to bite my lip that last 18 months or so.  

I left LA Metro in December 2004. When I went back in November 2018 it was like someone took all the intelligent people away and left a bunch of adults with 12 year old mentalities. 

[Muley Gil SASS # 57795]

I usually used the term "offender". The TV news uses "suspect", unless it is a law enforcement officer involved.