Vail Vigilante Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I’ve seen on the web folks using cap and ball pistols in CAS. My question is how do you load these things fast? I know at the loading table there is not a whole bunch of time... at least I didn’t think so... even for cartridge guns. The loading table actually took dedicated focus for me.....(although with only a couple matches I think it will get easier once I figure out a few more things......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 "Search" the SHB and the RO1 for the word "percussion"...read ALL references found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 No C&B shooter I've had the pleasure to shoot with waits until the Loading table to charge their cap guns. They normally either have a cylinder loading station set up on their cart, or at the "far end" of the Unloading table. They do whatever cylinder prep work is needed not long after being cleared at the Unloading table. Then they charge each cylinder with powder and ball. They do not CAP any chamber at this time. If they removed the cylinder to charge the chambers, they reinstall the cylinder in the revolver. Then, when time for them to use the Loading table to make ready for their stage, they CAP each chamber that they loaded, and place guns in holsters with hammer down on the unloaded chamber. Most have some sort of mark on one chamber that is never loaded, so finding the empty chamber to place hammer on is fairly easy. It takes them a little more time to load their C&B revolvers than cartridge shooters, but with practice and organization, they do real well keeping things moving. The biggest challenge for them is loading when the weather turns to rain! good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I load while watching the unloading table. Usually takes about 3 shooters to get it done. Takes newbies a few more. But, yer doing an important posse duty, and you stop while a shooter comes to reload. Never met anyone with an issue doing it this way. I use a cylinder loader -- lets me wipe the fouling off the forcing cone/water table, and guns. Wipe 'em down & load 'em there, and cap at the loading table. Has worked well for me for 20+ years. Once you do it awhile, it's quick & easy. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 FWIW, I prep the guns & make sure they function properly the night before -- avoids "surprises" at the range in the morning. I also load 'em the night before for the first stage, as I usually have posse chores when I get to the range. That way, all I have to do is cap 'em and go for stage 1. I leave my stool & re-charging supplies near the stage 1 unloading table & I'm ready-to-go --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I don’t shoot cap and ball very often but when I do I use paper cartridges. That speeds up loading quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Back when I was in NCOWS one of the guys I shot with had 12 cylinders all loaded and ready to go except capping. It was a significant expense but it worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Dan Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I to, use paper cartridges' so that there is no fumbling with measurements, etc under time pressure....unload, press new cartridges' in that are in a box near the unloading area, then straight to posse duties that no one wants to do. Cap at loading table... Takes me less than 1 shooter to move on after reloading. Cap and ball is no excuse to sit and wipe on guns til its your turn to shoot next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El diablo gringo Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 A little different, I use mini test tubes for the powder charge. Test tubes are filled at home. To load the pistol at my cart, just grab 5 tubes, 5 wads and 5 balls then load up. Fast and easy, even when the weather doesn’t cooperate. Gringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Jamison Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, Cholla said: Back when I was in NCOWS one of the guys I shot with had 12 cylinders all loaded and ready to go except capping. It was a significant expense but it worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I load while watching the unloading table, or at my cart. Use a loading stand and make sure you don't sweep anyone. Not considered a loaded firearm until you cap at the loading table. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Don't be in a hurry or be distracted loading your cap guns. You can easily make mistakes. I also don't let anyone smoke near me. I don't bother shooting cap guns in the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Good buddy Lonesome Ryder shot a 12 stage two day match clean in the rain. 60 Armys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I reload while watching the unloading table. Once I had the procedure down, I can load both pistols in the time it takes the next 3 shooters to complete the stage. Most important thing is to not let anyone distract you. I find that being one of the first two or three shooters on the stage or being 3rd / 4th from last to shoot the stage works best as I can still do posse chores. In the beginning I recommend that you do not watch the unloading table while reloading. Set up somewhere convenient and reload your pistols. When you have it down and can consistently reload in the span of 2 or 3 shooters. Then move to watching the unloading table while reloading. Loading in the rain is a real challenge but it can be done. Just make sure the rain drops that fall off the brim of your hat don't land on guns while loading. Lastly try to shoot C&B at monthly matches where there are enough shooters on the posse that you can still do posse chores. When ever I feel like shooting C&B I also take my cartridge guns to the match as well. If the posse is small I switch to FCD so that my loading of pistols doesn't slow the posse down. Otherwise I shoot my Cap guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 A definition of terms is in order. Loading; for cartridge guns that's the one step process of placing cartridges in the cylinders chambers. For C&B guns, that broken down into two steps, 1 - Charging; the placing of charge, ball & either a wad under the ball or grease over ball in the cylinder's chambers; & 2 - Loading; the act of capping the charged chambers. As noted above lots of C&B shooter's "charge" at the unloading table while doing that posse duty, then "Load" at the loading table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Talon Jamison said: Good idea until time to clean the 12 cylinders after the match. I thought about it once and decided I am too lazy for this idea. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 10 hours ago, Cholla said: Back when I was in NCOWS one of the guys I shot with had 12 cylinders all loaded and ready to go except capping. It was a significant expense but it worked well. I tried that for a few shoots, but, since I snap a coupla caps before the first loading, it was very cap intensive & expensive. AND, then you had 12 cylinders to clean. I determined that, for me, using a cylinder loader was a better way to go --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: I tried that for a few shoots, but, since I snap a coupla caps before the first loading, it was very cap intensive & expensive. AND, then you had 12 cylinders to clean. I determined that, for me, using a cylinder loader was a better way to go --Dawg Instead of snapping caps I use a can of compressed air. Use the little red tube and stick it into the nipple. Then give it a shot of air. Clears out the nipple and and any debris in the chamber. Lots cheaper than caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I do that the night before with a nozzle on the end of my air compressor. From the chamber end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 i like that idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I use a welding tip cleaner to clean the flash hole of the breech plug of my muzzleloading deer rifle (a T/C OMEGA Z5). One of the wires works great at cleaning the flash hole of the SLIX nipples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said: I use a welding tip cleaner to clean the flash hole of the breech plug of my muzzleloading deer rifle (a T/C OMEGA Z5). One of the wires works great at cleaning the flash hole of the SLIX nipples. Have to be careful with those. They can enlarge the flash holes if used incorrectly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vail Vigilante Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 This is very informative thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Have to be careful with those. They can enlarge the flash holes if used incorrectly Absolutely right -- one or two passes of the correctly sized pin is more than enough to break up the hard primer fouling. But Hodgdon recommends using this tool to clear the fouling of 209 shotgun primers from the flash hole of inline muzzleloaders -- like any tool, it must be used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 John Taffin did an article on making paper loads a few months ago in Guns magazine. This is the kit he uses: https://gunsoftheweststore.com/products/paper-cartridge-kit-44-36-calibers Mike Beliveau also has done work with them. https://www.mikebeliveau.com/blog/shave-like-a-man-pspgl And there's this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I didn't want to invest in a kit to make paper cartridges. I just used a plastic funnel from Harbour Freight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Interesting videos, thanks. How well do the formers work with a lubed wad and a round ball? Videos all seem to use normal looking bullets. Seems that nitrating the paper would also be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Making paper cartridges seems to me to be an awful lot of time and effort for not a lot of benefit. It really isn't very difficult or time-consuming to use pre-measured charges kept in 2ml cryotubes, wads and balls, all while sitting at the unloading table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Googling paper cartridges sure is a rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said: Interesting videos, thanks. How well do the formers work with a lubed wad and a round ball? Videos all seem to use normal looking bullets. Seems that nitrating the paper would also be a good idea. Everything could have been done better or at least different. I wanted to try cheap and dirty first. And as you see, it works. A shooting buddy always shoots Remington New Army 44s makes up paper cartridge with Eras Gone By bullet and so on. He uses a press to load off the gun. Seems to be reliable. I switched to using capsels to pre-measure powder. Works real well. I've only shot cap guns a couple of times. Got these but not shot them yet. Found percussion cylinders for them, thanks to friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Everything could have been done better or at least different. I wanted to try cheap and dirty first. And as you see, it works. A shooting buddy always shoots Remington New Army 44s makes up paper cartridge with Eras Gone By bullet and so on. He uses a press to load off the gun. Seems to be reliable. I switched to using capsels to pre-measure powder. Works real well. I've only shot cap guns a couple of times. Got these but not shot them yet. Found percussion cylinders for them, thanks to friends. Starting to think those capsules would be handy to speed thing up. I only shoot C&B a few times a season. What size are those little capsules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Just saw ND's post above, looks like 2ml. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 ml are perfect. I use these, and they fit perfectly in a MTM cartridge box for .45 ammo. I got 'em on Amazon: 100 Pcs 2ml Vials with Caps Lab Vials Small Plastic Bottles Test Tubes with Lids Centrifuge Tubes Small Liquid Sample Vial Storage Container Plastic Graduated Vial Tube with Screw Caps Cryo Tubes 2ml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said: Making paper cartridges seems to me to be an awful lot of time and effort for not a lot of benefit. It really isn't very difficult or time-consuming to use pre-measured charges kept in 2ml cryotubes, wads and balls, all while sitting at the unloading table. The same could be said for shooting BP. A lot of time and effort for not a lot of benefit. I say to each his own. Shoot whatever propellant you choose and load however you choose, within the rules of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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