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St. Pete family: Electric car battery replacement costs more than car


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On the used market, this is a real reality.   Also why used ev’s are cheap.   For an electric car it’s all about the battery and they have a finite life with capacity reducing over time and charge/discharge cycles.  

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7 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

The back story behind this cartoon/meme

 

St. Pete family: Electric car battery replacement costs more than car

 

 

 

That was the editorial cartoon in today's Calgary Sun newspaper.

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The TV station says that they are waiting for a reply from the manufacturer.  They’ll probably wait a looooooong time!

 

$11,000.00 for six months of service!!  

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AH!  Headline implies that the battery costs more than a NEW car.  But it wasn't a new car, but a used car that five seconds of research would had told them was towards the end of its service life. 

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A car that is only eight years old should NOT be “towards the end of its service life”!!!

 

It CERTAINLY should NOT be so obsolete that the manufacturer no longer produces or sells one of the most essential parts of the car!!!

 

Are we allowing the manufacturers to return to the era where everything that they make is disposable? Where you buy it and the first time it fails to perform, you just dump it and go buy something else??

 

This is BS!!  

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My friend just bought a hybrid Hyundai and the battery is warranted for 10 years, of course with a hybrid if your battery goes you can still drive on the gas engine. I would never buy an all electric car! 

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1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

AH!  Headline implies that the battery costs more than a NEW car.  But it wasn't a new car, but a used car that five seconds of research would had told them was towards the end of its service life. 

 

An 8 year old car with 60,000 miles is at the end of it's service life? That's ridiculous. Even the Vega and Yugo lasted longer than that.

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This also applies to many Prius when the thieves steal the catalytic converters.
My daughter owns a 2005 Prius, which year contains the highest amounts of platinum, etc, so it is most attractive to thieves.

They ripped hers off right in the driveway... less than 10 minutes and gone.
They also do this in the parking lots at movie theaters.

Fortunately for her, the vehicle value was high enough her insurance did not "total" the vehicle.
Most of them wind up totaled.

Our local muffler shop here, is doing a whopping business of welding anti-theft cages around catalytic converters.
The cops know the perp, and when he finally went to jail (short term) the thefts stopped, then resumed when he got out.

This is especially chronic in the People's Republic of Davis, home to the University of CA at Davis.
Side note:  the difference between a Prius and a porcupine is, the porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

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12 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My friend just bought a hybrid Hyundai and the battery is warranted for 10 years, of course with a hybrid if your battery goes you can still drive on the gas engine. I would never buy an all electric car! 

 

My understanding of the hybrid is that the electric motor is for the initial acceleration (0 to 25), the gas motor takes over after that. I don't think that the car will accelerate from 0 with the gas engine.

 

Then again, I may be wrong for the 2,357,984th time.

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22 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

My understanding of the hybrid is that the electric motor is for the initial acceleration (0 to 25), the gas motor takes over after that. I don't think that the car will accelerate from 0 with the gas engine.

 

Then again, I may be wrong for the 2,357,984th time.

My friend told me it would run on the gas engine only if the battery went kapoot! 
The battery is constantly being recharged by the gas engine so if the battery runs low the gas engine will recharge it. That’s the way it was explained to me but I am no hybrid expert!

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

My understanding of the hybrid is that the electric motor is for the initial acceleration (0 to 25), the gas motor takes over after that. I don't think that the car will accelerate from 0 with the gas engine.

 

Then again, I may be wrong for the 2,357,984th time.

They will run without the battery.  I good friend has a Toyota hybrid, (not a Prius) and the battery failed.  Milage dropped 15-20% but it would still run.  New battery was $4500.  

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My friend told me it would run on the gas engine only if the battery went kapoot! 
The battery is constantly being recharged by the gas engine so if the battery runs low the gas engine will recharge it. That’s the way it was explained to me but I am no hybrid expert!

 

3 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

They will run without the battery.  I good friend has a Toyota hybrid, (not a Prius) and the battery failed.  Milage dropped 15-20% but it would still run.  New battery was $4500.  

 

Dang it, 2,357,985th time.

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

An 8 year old car with 60,000 miles is at the end of it's service life? That's ridiculous. Even the Vega and Yugo lasted longer than that.

For lithium batteries, it’s the years and/or cycles.  Deep cycles ie full charge to full discharge do more damage than shallow charges.   I read Tesla claims 1500 cycles for life.  So that’s 1500 full cycles or maybe 3000 shallow cycles. 
  I believe gm is a 8 year warranty for 30% degradation.  California may have local laws that push it further.  I expect good battery life will be 10-12 years or less if abused by doing deep discharge cycles.  There have been documented cases where teslas fail in 1-2 years with daily full discharges and fast charges.  Even 1500 cycles is only 5 years of daily discharges.  Do it twice a day or more and you could be that many cycles in 2 years or less.   Think of how long your rechargeable tool batteries last.  Same technology.  

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3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

The TV station says that they are waiting for a reply from the manufacturer.  They’ll probably wait a looooooong time!

 

$11,000.00 for six months of service!!  

Probably see Jesus in this lifetime before they ever hear from Ford on a discontinued model.

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1 minute ago, Still hand Bill said:

For lithium batteries, it’s the years and/or cycles.  Deep cycles ie full charge to full discharge do more damage than shallow charges.   I believe gm is a 8 year warranty for 30% degradation.  California may have local laws that push it further.  I expect good battery life will be 10-12 years or less if abused by doing deep discharge cycles.  There have been documented cases where teslas fail in 1-2 years with daily full discharges and fast charges.  Even 1000 cycles is only 3 years of daily discharges.  Do it twice a day and you could be that many cycles in 2 years or less.   Think of how long your rechargeable tool batteries last.  Same technology.  

 

Ah, a new normal...Car salesman "This baby only has 237 cycles on it."

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1 minute ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

Probably see Jesus in this lifetime before they ever hear from Ford on a discontinued model.

 

Jesus rose from the dead...them batteries won't.

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Just now, Cypress Sun said:

 

Ah, a new normal...Car salesman "This baby only has 237 cycles on it."

The original leaf had a battery health meter.  It was how many bars were left.  Gm, Tesla and others are now trying to hide any easy way to get battery health.  They dont publish the actual battery capacity, but instead tout range.  Range is mostly useless in anything but the best conditions.   Then when discharging there is no easy way to calculate actual kWh depleted and remaining.  It’s all based on “range”.  I guessed my Bolt was down to around 50 kwh from 60 after 4 years and 65k.  Even that varied with temperature.  It was closer to 45 in the cold.  

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A Tesla is the last car I would buy, EV or not, even though I will acknowledge they have the most advanced and mature EV technology around. I hesitate to even mention this as some people are so locked into the Cult of Tesla that it's a personal attack on them if you dislike the company, but it is what it is.

With that said, EV has a lot of promise. At this time, I could make a case for something like a Leaf or even a plug in hybrid since my commute is ~60 miles(and I'll be back in the office 4-5 days a week in the fall) and my work does have chargers. My big hindrance now with home charging is the 100A service to the house is pretty well spoken for(4x15A circuits inside, which are still short at time, plus 30A to the AC) and upgrading to a more reasonable 200-250A along with rewiring the house to make logical use of the extra power is a much bigger expense than laying down the money for the car(even if it ultimately is a good thing for the resale value of this nearly 70 year old house).

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If you are doing a 60 mile commute, that’s easy to charge.  Even a 20 amp 240 circuit will keep up.  My bolt and volt came with a charge cord that was 12a at 120/240.   Wasn’t stated on the cord, but it was dual voltage.  You could plug it into 240 which gives 2.8 kwh or about 9-12 miles per hour of charging.  6-7 hours per day would cover the commute.  If you set it to turn on after 10 pm, it would have an easy 8 hrs before you left in the morning and that is low demand time.    Also a low use time in your house.  If you go to time of day service nights can be cheaper or even free electricity.  Makes driving an ev quite cheap.  
 

I had a dedicated 110 outlet in the garage to 20 amp breaker for a fridge.  A simple breaker and plug change resulted in a 20 amp 240v outlet.  No wiring required.  I also added a 50 amp 240 for the second ev charge station.  That was about $500 to install.  

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End of service life does not mean the vehicle won’t run anymore. It means by that time it will be pretty much obsolete as far as electronics and parts go. And the manufacturer may not be making replacements so you might need after market stuff. I dare say most of us have at least one “end of service” piece still in action.

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When profit is your motive, a 65-75-125 thousand dollar car with the repair and maintenance life cycle of a bic lighter is an AWESOME investment

 

But - if you are the poor schlub that's been conned into believing your second hand, coal powered electric car is saving the environment while your evil petrobased oil burning high mileage repairable sustainable car is killing the planet faster than the COVID pandemic - well, maybe the investment doesn't have the same level of return but to each their own - go buy an electric car or don't - thats what great about this country - we still have "choices" - plug it into an electric outlet because electricity is a sustainable power source - it comes right out of the wall

you dont need a nuclear power plant

you dont need a coal fired power plant

you dont need an unreliable solar panel

you dont need unreliable windmills

you need need a wall outlet - BAM - find a plug and you've got clean energy

you dont have to strip mine the country side for rare earth metals like lithium, nickel, manganese, and cobalt

 

...lets just quit complaining about gas prices, buy EVs, and go eat our peas

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3 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

They will run without the battery.  I good friend has a Toyota hybrid, (not a Prius) and the battery failed.  Milage dropped 15-20% but it would still run.  New battery was $4500.  

Even at $5 a gallon it will be a while before you break even on that bill 

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Tesla. The battery is made up of a bunch of individual cells/batteries. If cells go bad Tesla won't change them out. They will sell you a whole new battery pack for $22,000. Some private companies are now replacing individual bad batteries and extending the life of the Tesla battery system. Still a rip off.

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9 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Tesla. The battery is made up of a bunch of individual cells/batteries. If cells go bad Tesla won't change them out. They will sell you a whole new battery pack for $22,000. Some private companies are now replacing individual bad batteries and extending the life of the Tesla battery system. Still a rip off.

Before our current situation, $22,000 could get you a pretty decent lunch box hauler . And thats all any ev is . I’ve ridden in a Tesla and they are nice . But to me nothing more than a novelty item at this point.  It would be interesting to know the average cost per mile over about 250,000 miles vs something like a Toyota Corolla. And what the resale would be on both at that point 

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Interesting observation. A couple posted about the Ford F150 EV they bought. They towed a small travel trailer 2,700 miles. A full charge would last about 100 miles because of the trailer load.  So EV trucks are nothing more than a local computer car.

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Just imagine, everyone owns a EV, your on the interstate were thousands of cars drive on all day. Your going on vacation and you need a recharge as well as hundred  if not a thousand cars waiting to re-charge their vehicles which is no longer a 10 minute or less to refuel a Fossil Fuel vehicle. So you spend hours backed up, hours getting to the re charge station and hours re charging.  Meanwhile, since all the Fossil Fuel power stations are shut down, and its Winter, less sunlight to power homes with heat and electricity from Solar Panels. Windpower windmills are frosted up and many are offline.

Yup, the future is going to be an exciting time to look forward to with Solar, Wind, and EVs. 

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Last month I drove to N.C. to spend a week with my son.  In 695 miles I saw one Tesla on the interstates.  They just don't have the range.  I have a 2017 Chevy truck and a 2021 BMW, I'll never buy an all electric car.  One of my son's cars is a BMW 530 E, a hybrid, and they love it but they hardly ever leave it charging overnight, their light bill goes thru the roof!

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4 minutes ago, Dawg Hair, SASS #29557 said:

Last month I drove to N.C. to spend a week with my son.  In 695 miles I saw one Tesla on the interstates.  They just don't have the range.  I have a 2017 Chevy truck and a 2021 BMW, I'll never buy an all electric car.  One of my son's cars is a BMW 530 E, a hybrid, and they love it but they hardly ever leave it charging overnight, their light bill goes thru the roof!

Plus sooner or later you know the government is going to get around to putting a meter on the electrical connections for EV’s so they can get some road taxes . I know some jurisdictions charge more for registration over gas vehicles but sooner or later they are going to say some people drive more than others and in the interest of “fairness” they need to get more $$ out of the people who use the roads more. 

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16 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Just imagine, everyone owns a EV, your on the interstate were thousands of cars drive on all day. Your going on vacation and you need a recharge as well as hundred  if not a thousand cars waiting to re-charge their vehicles which is no longer a 10 minute or less to refuel a Fossil Fuel vehicle. 

How many people do you know that get up in the morning and hop into their car to go to work and go oh $hit , I don’t have enough gas to get to work , or I can get to work but not there and home . It’s not going to bode well for the people who don’t plan ahead. Which is a good portion of our population 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Interesting observation. A couple posted about the Ford F150 EV they bought. They towed a small travel trailer 2,700 miles. A full charge would last about 100 miles because of the trailer load.  So EV trucks are nothing more than a local computer car.

Not unexpected.  You can pretty much divide the mpg by 10 to get miles per kWh.  A truck towing is 10-12 mpg, so that’s 1 to 1.2 m/kwh and how big is the battery?   The big one is supposed to be 150 kwh, small one is 98, so right at about 100 mile range.  But since you only use 75% of the battery for fast charging, you can go 75 miles between charging stations or about an hour of driving.  

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2 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Not unexpected.  You can pretty much divide the mpg by 10 to get miles per kWh.  A truck towing is 10-12 mpg, so that’s 1 to 1.2 m/kwh and how big is the battery?   The big one is supposed to be 150 kwh, small one is 98, so right at about 100 mile range.  But since you only use 75% of the battery for fast charging, you can go 75 miles between charging stations or about an hour of driving.  

I guess you better hope there’s a charging station every 75mi to where you need to go . People will be making some sort of adapter or cheater to plug in at unoccupied homes 

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