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St. Pete family: Electric car battery replacement costs more than car


Sedalia Dave

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Only tangentially related, but...

 

I have a buddy who recently replaced his above-ground pool.  Couple  weeks later he got to spend a few days in the hospital, and when he returned home, he found the water really cloudy.  

 

I stopped by to visit, and was surprised to see that he had the filter pump plugged into a Honda generator - "Dang, Bobby!  Why not just plug it into the house system?"

 

"'Cuz with PG&E's new 'Time of Use' rates it's cheaper to run that Honda generator than pay the electric company!"  

 

:huh:

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6 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

A car that is only eight years old should NOT be “towards the end of its service life”!!!

 

It CERTAINLY should NOT be so obsolete that the manufacturer no longer produces or sells one of the most essential parts of the car!!!

 

Are we allowing the manufacturers to return to the era where everything that they make is disposable? Where you buy it and the first time it fails to perform, you just dump it and go buy something else??

 

This is BS!!  


 Federal Law state car Manufacturers only have to carry parts for 7 years now , And I agree with you as far as what should last But they want a shelf life on a car so you purchase new every 3-4 years they want disposable cars all in the name of green , ever dispose of one of the EV batteries ? Not so green .
 I agree it is BS  but its being sold socially just like so many other things

 

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26 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

 

26 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

I guess you better hope there’s a charging station every 75mi to where you need to go . People will be making some sort of adapter or cheater to plug in at unoccupied homes 

To charge that truck in an hour you need a 100kw service.  A typical house is 24 kw (100 amp). Means you need the same power as 4 houses to charge in an hour.  To charge in 30 min, 200kw service or 8 houses.  Fossil fuels really are energy dense when compared to electricity.  
 

 

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4 hours ago, Muggle said:

I hesitate to even mention this as some people are so locked into the Cult of Tesla that it's a personal attack on them if you dislike the company

 

Sort of like the people who start frothing at the mouth at any mention of EVs.  

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

 

To charge that truck in an hour you need a 100kw service.  A typical house is 24 kw (100 amp). Means you need the same power as 4 houses to charge in an hour.  To charge in 30 min, 200kw service or 8 houses.  Fossil fuels really are energy dense when compared to electricity.  
 

 

The more I learn about electric vehicles the less I like them. And I didn’t think it was a great idea to begin with 

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27 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Sort of like the people who start frothing at the mouth at any mention of EVs.  

 

 

 

Or the people that defend EVs. Because if it works for THEM, they should work for everybody. As it stands right now, the electrical grid is borderline overwhelmed by the demand that some places are having rolling blackouts. If you start adding significant numbers of EVs to that, we'll ALL be in the dark. 

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15 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

 

To charge that truck in an hour you need a 100kw service.  A typical house is 24 kw (100 amp). Means you need the same power as 4 houses to charge in an hour.  To charge in 30 min, 200kw service or 8 houses.  Fossil fuels really are energy dense when compared to electricity.  
 

 

You can't charge a 100kWH battery in an hour; because, the car's built in charge/discharge control will stop charging at 75%.  Charging Li Ion cells generates heat which raises the temperature of the cells.  Li Ion cells are flammable so will ignite if temperature exceeds the ignition point.  So, if charged too fast they will ignite without sophisticated charging control.  EV battery packs contain hundreds of 3 volt cells and imbedded in the pack are integrated circuits that control the charge current based on individual cell voltages & temperatures.  Without this fast charge would be dangerous.  You'd hear on the news more frequently about EV carbeques.

P.S. Tesla Powerwalls use end of life Tesla EV batteries.  To insure that EV batteries meet warranted life the charge discharge control limits the max charge & discharge to less than the battery's IEEE capacity rating.  Therefore the cells can be repurposed and get more use before they have to be recycled.  Repurposing the car battery pack is disassembled into individual cells the repackaged into packs that has a voltage rating appropriate for generating 120/240 volt single phase 60 hertz.  The typical residential application the battery cycle is very short, a few cycles with infrequent longer cycles.  A knackered EV battery pack can last years of UPS use before it is buggered.

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1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Or the people that defend EVs. Because if it works for THEM, they should work for everybody. As it stands right now, the electrical grid is borderline overwhelmed by the demand that some places are having rolling blackouts. If you start adding significant numbers of EVs to that, we'll ALL be in the dark. 

 

Shall we agree that there are extremist morons on both ends of the spectrum? 

Outside of politicians and paid activists I've not come across many of the type you describe. I know that they are out there, I just haven't had the displeasure of meeting them.

 

I do, however, frequently meet the "Well, since no EV can meet MY needs of pulling 20,000 pounds up a 7% grade for 1000 miles between charges all EVs are useless." types.

 

Do I think they are a panacea for everything from hangnails to halitosis?  If course not.  But there is a significant niche that they are well suited to fill.   

 

Every new technology has problems.  Battery technology is no exception.  But it has made amazing progress in the past decade.  Also, the push for EVs by social engineers will force them to accept nuclear power eventually.

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1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Or the people that defend EVs. Because if it works for THEM, they should work for everybody. As it stands right now, the electrical grid is borderline overwhelmed by the demand that some places are having rolling blackouts. If you start adding significant numbers of EVs to that, we'll ALL be in the dark. 

 

Thats one fact that USPS is about to find out...the hard way. There's no way in hell that the aged USPS buildings are electrically capable of handling the additional load of a bunch of EV mail trucks charging all at once, overnight. 

 

My passive research indicates that the majority of the electrical systems in the US (or World for that matter) will not be able to provide the needs for charging a large group of EV's being introduced to the grid. The electrical grids in most states/cities are already stressed to the point of possible, uninduced blackouts. The H2O systems in the west are already having a hard time keeping up.

 

If the Feds and greenies expect EV's to work, they better get to building large electrical generation facilities and upgrade transmission lines...quickly. That takes rapid cooperation between Fed agencies, including the EPA, Army Corps of Engineers and various other entities. When is the last time anyone witnessed the Feds do anything quickly or correctly?

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5 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Do I think they are a panacea for everything from hangnails to halitosis? 

 

Clark Gable had chronic halitosis.

 

Frankly, he didn't give a damn.

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2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Sort of like the people who start frothing at the mouth at any mention of EVs.  

 

 

 

Or guns, or gun control, or abortion, or the SEC letting Texas in……..

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14 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

The H2O systems in the west are already having a hard time keeping up.

The herds of migrants aren’t going to helping the water and natural resources either 

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31 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Also, the push for EVs by social engineers will force them to accept nuclear power eventually.

I wouldn’t count on it , they have already put the cart before the horse by not upgrading the electric grid before their push for EV’s . I’m willing to bet the push for them has more to do with making certain people rich . I used to suspect Musk was in that cabal,  but he’s no longer a fan favorite . This all makes sense for someone somewhere. Just not the average American citizen .

I’d hate to guess how long it would take for the bureaucracy to approve building a nuclear power plant, it will definitely be longer than the physical construction 

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5 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

You can't charge a 100kWH battery in an hour; because, the car's built in charge/discharge control will stop charging at 75%.  Charging Li Ion cells generates heat which raises the temperature of the cells.  Li Ion cells are flammable so will ignite if temperature exceeds the ignition point.  So, if charged too fast they will ignite without sophisticated charging control.  EV battery packs contain hundreds of 3 volt cells and imbedded in the pack are integrated circuits that control the charge current based on individual cell voltages & temperatures.  Without this fast charge would be dangerous.  You'd hear on the news more frequently about EV carbeques.

P.S. Tesla Powerwalls use end of life Tesla EV batteries.  To insure that EV batteries meet warranted life the charge discharge control limits the max charge & discharge to less than the battery's IEEE capacity rating.  Therefore the cells can be repurposed and get more use before they have to be recycled.  Repurposing the car battery pack is disassembled into individual cells the repackaged into packs that has a voltage rating appropriate for generating 120/240 volt single phase 60 hertz.  The typical residential application the battery cycle is very short, a few cycles with infrequent longer cycles.  A knackered EV battery pack can last years of UPS use before it is buggered.

True you can’t fully charge in an hour at 1c as there is a constant voltage taper at the end of the charge cycle, usually at 85% soc.    I was simply using a 1c charge rate as it’s considered safe on almost all cells as an idea of how much power is required.  The truth is most cars are now charging at 2C or higher in order to reduce charge times.   In the Rc world we charge at 5c or greater to build heat in the cells for lower ir and less voltage sag under load.  Now that decreases cycle life and it’s a trade off.  We get new packs every 6 - 12 months as the ir increases and the packs do no perform as well.  Won’t be doing that anytime soon on full sized ev’s due to cost.  

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14 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Only tangentially related, but...

 

I have a buddy who recently replaced his above-ground pool.  Couple  weeks later he got to spend a few days in the hospital, and when he returned home, he found the water really cloudy.  

 

I stopped by to visit, and was surprised to see that he had the filter pump plugged into a Honda generator - "Dang, Bobby!  Why not just plug it into the house system?"

 

"'Cuz with PG&E's new 'Time of Use' rates it's cheaper to run that Honda generator than pay the electric company!"  

 

:huh:

 

Back in the 2000s when I was stationed at China lake Cero Coso Community College ran on their emergency Diesel backup generator every Friday because that was cheaper than being connected to the grid.   

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My opinion on EVs.

My opinion, the infrastructure is not ready nor prepared to handle extreme needs during hot or cold weather for homes, business and manufacturers and then also have thousands of EVs plugged in. For long travels, there aren't the stations for handling hundreds of recharging vehicles if they suddenly appeared during a year on the interstates. There are problems with Solar and wind power, namely long days and nights with no sunlight, or wind. Or wind power taken off line for extreme weather or mechanical reason or failures.

Can't get rid of Fossil Fules as so many promises are made (unless they come up with some good rubber bands to turn props on planes).  Even though its called syntheic oils, they still use a petroleum base, so lubricants are still needed. 

With promises of shutting down fossil fuels, were will the military find re-charging stations on the battlefields for their EV Tanks, trucks, jeeps, etc.??

Then those that want to impose EVs, and go solar or wind. they drive big black SUVs, fly more then the average person ( there is one person that called out a large cargo USAF plane every weekend to fly home and was the only person aboard except for the crew), won't allow putting wind turbines off their shores because they will spoil the view from their homes, nor Solar Panels near their homesites like Utahs neighboring land will soon have.

Then we have the matter of disposing of dead batteries, windmill blades, and used Solar Panels after their 20 to 25 year lifespan. So now we poison the earth rather then the air we breathe.

Maybe do the infrastructure first to support the future, which is much needed already.

 

Again, my thoughts on the matter. Am I against EVs? No. Just that its not ready for me and my needs.

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21 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Just imagine, everyone owns a EV, your on the interstate were thousands of cars drive on all day. Your going on vacation and you need a recharge as well as hundred  if not a thousand cars waiting to re-charge their vehicles which is no longer a 10 minute or less to refuel a Fossil Fuel vehicle. So you spend hours backed up, hours getting to the re charge station and hours re charging.  Meanwhile, since all the Fossil Fuel power stations are shut down, and its Winter, less sunlight to power homes with heat and electricity from Solar Panels. Windpower windmills are frosted up and many are offline.

Yup, the future is going to be an exciting time to look forward to with Solar, Wind, and EVs. 

 

Exactly!  Imagine residing in the hot part of the country (40+F) with everyone running their air conditioners and everyone arriving at home from work at approx the same time and plugging in their electric vehicles.  If there is no wind at that time, the solar panels are not going to take that surge in power.  Result, brown out or a blackout.  The trouble with socialists is that they never think things through.

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I'm still waiting for at least 50% of the country to have them and do just what you said. Someone going to have to reset that breaker when it trips offline and blacks out the country.:lol:

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My sister's Prius battery died.  Dealer wanted over $4,500.00 to replace it.  She found a battery rebuilding facility on the internet.  They came out and replaced the battery for $800.00.  Car runs fine.

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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

According to my son-in-law these EV batteries are considered emissions equipment and should be covered for 8 years and 100,000 miles. by the manufacturer. 

 

He is correct. The kicker is most but not all car manufacturers allow warranties to be transferred when the car is sold. Some require a form to be filled out to transfer the warranty at the time of sale.

 

The PRoK requires all EV batteries to be warrantied for 10 years 150,000 miles.

 

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7 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Per this Ford should be repairing the car under the factory warranty

 

See pg 6

 

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2016-Ford-Warranty-Guide-version-1_frdwa_EN-CA_02_2015.pdf

 

 

 

Turns out the Car is a 2014 so it is possible it is more than 8 years old.

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22 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Per this Ford should be repairing the car under the factory warranty

 

See pg 6

 

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2016-Ford-Warranty-Guide-version-1_frdwa_EN-CA_02_2015.pdf

 

 

Thought that the article said it was a 2014? Which would be 8 years old, possibly a little older. My 2012 car was purchased new in June of 2011, making it 11 years old this year from the warranty start date. The warranty you showed said 8 years/160,000 km from the original warranty start date so it is possible to be out of warranty possibly by several months to a year. One certainty is that at one day past the warranty period the manufacturer would wash their hands of a $14,000 plus problem. 
Regards 

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

 

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If everyone had an electric vehicle, the electric grid would collapse. We are years, if not forever, away from a solution for this. 

Until, and if, our scientists discover a clean, abundant, cheap, source of energy (and that ain't wind, or solar), then we have to have fossil fuels, or nuclear.

 

I heard the founder of the National Weather Agency, the other day, state (before they could shut him up), that man made climate change is not a scientifically sustainable fact. He said, in no uncertain terms, that climate change is a load of pig manure. Finally, the truth is out of the bag. 

  

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There was a time I would have thought an electric car would have been cool. Mostly because I was thinking of building one. 
I have no desire to own one now. Mostly because of the “EV Culture”. It’s like a bunch of hippies cut there hair took baths and became passive aggressive anal retentive retards with range anxiety. 

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 I've never had a battery in any piece of equipment ever in my life that didn't fail and need to be replaced. These cars are no different but with a much higher price tag of inconvenience.

 

Maybe in 50 years or 100 years we'll have this figured out but not without a lot better and more affordable batteries and more electrical infrastructure undoubtedly coming from fossil fuels.

 

 I know only a handful of people who drive hybrids and for the most part they seem happy. There's a lot more potential for a hybrid than a 100% EV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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