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Long Range Pistol Cal Rifle Shooting


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Who here uses smokeless to shoot out to 300 yards.  I use black powder by volume in most loads I make.  If I make smokeless rounds in .44 WCF or .45 Colt I weigh each charge of powder though I use a Dillon 550B.  I found that the Dillon powder measure could and will drop +/- 0.1 on a lot of powders I use.  For long range shooting do you weigh or just use a powder measure?

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The one time I shot long range I used my regular match loads. I just kept moving up the hill behind the bear being used until I found the right bush to aim at.

350 yards and probably 40 feet of hold over.

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I have never shot a pistol caliber long range rifle match that exceeded 100 yard targets.   For that, I use a Dillon powder measure on my 550 press.  

 

With loads made like that and using my main match Uberti .45 Colt lever rifle, I have regularly rung a 16"-wide man-silhouette target, standing, at 200 yards.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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I use a .38 WCF out past 300 yards ... And I Drop all my charges through a good powder measure ..

And I use a Powder Measure to drop charges for my .40-65 that I have shot out past 1,300 yards ..

Good Tec. and a quality Measure ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I shoot Holy Black in Everything except long range pistol caliber rifle. Those hand cast bullets and smokeless powder are all carefully weighed using choice components. I also match load my 45/70 and 45/90 but in black powder. Small changes at the chamber can make big differences 100+ yards down range. 

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We're currently shooting 22's for silhouette matches. Two shooters ran tests using a chrono, and paper targets. They tested over 20 different 22 long rifle ammo.

Some of it was so bad you'd be lucky to use it for plinking at 20 yards. The FPS for 1,000 fps ammo was off by 85 fps.  SO same weight bullets, and supposedly powder got you crap results, for 22's.

There were about 5 that had consistent fps and also consistent tight groups at 200 meters. So good brass, high quality bullets, and accurate powder drops = good results.

For SASS long range pistol caliber rifle, pull anything from your gun cart and you'll hit the 100 yard or less target.

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8 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Weigh powder and bullets. If you really want accuracy use match grade primers.

Kid, 2 out of 3 are winners..  Match grade primers is not.  Shoot mid range to 600yds and long range to 1000yds and many of the smokeless & black powder reloads are plain LR & for Black powder, plain LP to reduce briance

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5 minutes ago, John Boy said:

Kid, 2 out of 3 are winners..  Match grade primers is not.  Shoot mid range to 600yds and long range to 1000yds and many of the smokeless & black powder reloads are plain LR & for Black powder, plain LP to reduce briance

Your opinion.

OPMMVATC

kR

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5 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

We're currently shooting 22's for silhouette matches. Two shooters ran tests using a chrono, and paper targets. They tested over 20 different 22 long rifle ammo.

Some of it was so bad you'd be lucky to use it for plinking at 20 yards. The FPS for 1,000 fps ammo was off by 85 fps.  SO same weight bullets, and supposedly powder got you crap results, for 22's.

There were about 5 that had consistent fps and also consistent tight groups at 200 meters. So good brass, high quality bullets, and accurate powder drops = good results.

For SASS long range pistol caliber rifle, pull anything from your gun cart and you'll hit the 100 yard or less target.

So inquiring minds want to know. What were the 5? Phoenix pistol club guys did a number of tests a couple of years ago and CCI Std velocity was the most accurate.

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Pee Wee at our long range match's we are ringing steel. All of the SASS LR Side Matches I have shot, we where ringing steel. 

I would say that +/- .1 is acceptable variance. Other will disagree but we are ringing steel not shooting small groups.

The standard for powder scales is +/- .1, so you can weight each charge to the exact weight and still get a variance.

 

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On 1/27/2021 at 9:09 PM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

I use a .38 WCF out past 300 yards ... And I Drop all my charges through a good powder measure ..

And I use a Powder Measure to drop charges for my .40-65 that I have shot out past 1,300 yards ..

Good Tec. and a quality Measure ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

Jabez, I tried to send you a pm got a prompt that you can’t receive messages? Thanks- SCJ

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2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

If it were me, shooting a .45c I prefer a 250gr bullet, the 200’s seem to drop more, YMMV.

They all drop at exactly the same rate.  32ft/second squared 

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I was at Ridgway one day with my 45 Colt 1860 Uberti.  Loaded with black powder, plain LP primers and 300gr Casull bullets .... after several sighter s at the Rams at 500m, dropped 2 in a row, took a picture and finished the bank .Pistol calibers can be used for long range shooting with accuracy

re: SASS ‘long range distances’ I sight all my rifles in at 200 and 300yds that are used for longer NRA distances and yes, I do use CCI Br-2 primers also :P

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4 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Your opinion.

OPMMVATC

kR

I've run match primers, magnum and regular LR or LP in my BP loads... magnum are best left to magnum smokeless loads, I get more improvement with a grease cookie and card wads on both sides of it than any improvement in group size I could actually attribute to a match primer.   But, I haven't tried every brand of match primer...:P

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I was wanting long range for groups not ring steel.  With a little work most people can ring steel if the target is big enough but shooting for groups is a whole other ball game.  Any of my SASS loads will ring a 18"X18" steel out to 300 yards but they are all over the steel.  Getting a group 8"-10" at 300 yards is hard on 75 year old eyes with open sights.  At a 100 yards I see good enough for 1 1/2" with my Rossi .44WCF, Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt opens up to around 3", both seated and shooting sticks.

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Pee Wee, suggestion ... put a MVA 2” vernier sight with a Hadley Cup on the tang.  Not a Lyman or Marbles type peep sight.  For the fore sight, buy from MVA a Beach combination globe sight that has a pin head. The pin head is calculated to aim at the bottom of the ten ring to make center hits..... Good Luck

PS: with a 3” vernier, Hadley Cup and globe foresight with interchangeable inserts, I can print in the 10 ring with a few center hits at 1000yds on a good day and minimal wind and mirage

Edited by John Boy
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On 1/28/2021 at 3:49 AM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

If you want accurate consistent loads you weigh smokeless and bp. The powder drops aren't that accurate.

Benchrest shooters would disagree. And you don't get any more accurate than them. :D  Very minor differences in powder charge simply do not appear to affect accuracy.    I didn't see anyone in my BR days NOT using a powder thrower  ..and since we all loaded on arbor presses with inline dies just back from the firing line...I would have noticed...lol      Word has it that a US Benchrest Hall of Famer did an experiment where he varied the powder charge in his (6PPC) loads by up to half a grain.... (on a 25-26 grain load -  so up to 2%) and saw no measurable difference in group size shot.....   certainly counter intuitive... but seems to be true.

Edited by Constable Nelson #11784
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On 2/3/2021 at 7:45 AM, Pee Wee #15785 said:

 At a 100 yards I see good enough for 1 1/2" with my Rossi .44WCF, Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt opens up to around 3", both seated and shooting sticks.

 

Then shoot that Rossi that fires 1.5" groups.

 

It's not the loading technique as much as it the components and the gun in this particular case, I would bet.  Most Marlin .45 Colt guns are chambered at or larger than maximum chamber dimensions.   Some of the biggest .45 Colt chambers around!  I've cerrocast a few, and that's been my findings.

 

Good luck, GJ 

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On 2/3/2021 at 8:45 AM, Pee Wee #15785 said:

I was wanting long range for groups not ring steel.  With a little work most people can ring steel if the target is big enough but shooting for groups is a whole other ball game.  Any of my SASS loads will ring a 18"X18" steel out to 300 yards but they are all over the steel.  Getting a group 8"-10" at 300 yards is hard on 75 year old eyes with open sights.  At a 100 yards I see good enough for 1 1/2" with my Rossi .44WCF, Marlin Cowboy .45 Colt opens up to around 3", both seated and shooting sticks.

 

Marshal TKD is right, almost all clubs ring steel for this kind of match. In fact I run the long range side matches at the club TKD mentioned. 100 yards we use about 1/2 man sized to a 4" disc in descending sizes, 200 yards full man sized IPSC to 6" disc. Do your part and measure thrown main match loads for .45 Colt work just fine for both 200gr and 250gr bullets. Yep, same loads I shoot in my pistols and I have been know to hit the full man sized target with my pistols.

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