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New Federal Video Today Re Ammo Shortage


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I've been a supply chain/production ops guy for 40+ yrs. Thank God I'm retired. However,  if he believes in American manufacturing , as he states in the video; and primer capacity is fully utilized....this is the perfect time to do a joint venture with the other US primer makers (Winchester/Olin, etc...... whoever). Build the plant, install the lines, train the crew and go.........Share in the wealth and prosperity now,  and later if it comes down to it divide the pain/burden of excess assets. This is not as hard as he makes it seem.  

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5 minutes ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

Build the plant

There's are a lot of empty large box warehouses around. But the issue is, who owns what, how are profits split, he manages it. Aren't all of the other primer manufacturers running at 100% capacity? WHat would moving accomplish other than a shut down of manufacturing?

 

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1 minute ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

There's are a lot of empty large box warehouses around. But the issue is, who owns what, how are profits split, he manages it. Aren't all of the other primer manufacturers running at 100% capacity? WHat would moving accomplish other than a shut down of manufacturing?

 

Not rocket science. Not even close. Purchase price of land , building, equipment, profit splits etc...... is dictated by contractual terms arranged by a team of multi corporate (all interested corporations now making primers) lawyers. If they can do it during an acquisition/take over, they damn sure can do it for a jv. Yes, other manufacturers are running at 100%, that's why new capacity is grounded in a jv. Who cares who manages the new plant? Multi corporate operations talents of present manufacturers, or if cultures clash....... farm production out to 3rd party contract manufacturing. And, what moving are you talking about? 

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1 minute ago, Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme said:

And, what moving are you talking about

Manufacturing equipment. Or if buying all new, no one has this stuff in stock so hopefully it would be there when it opened.

You're assuming 3 or 4 large companies are all going to get together and hug and work towards a common goal. I've been involved an a lot of JV's and the discussion on investment, management, operations, and sharing potential profit is a long and difficult one. And why build a new building? That would 18 months to 2 years.

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If I have an established factory, working at full capacity because of high demand, then the decision to expand facilities is purely a personal one based upon my ambitions, my assessment of the costs and risks, how the future looks, etc. Beyond that it has nothing to do with what other people would like to see me do.

 

If somebody says, why don't you build another factory to satisfy my wishes?, ...that would be low on my list....

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And with our new administration being openly hostile to the firearms industry, not really a good time to start planning expansion.

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If THE REAL reason for the Primer shortage is because of the quantity of hunting ammo at this time, then we should see

Primers back on the shelf by spring time because basic major hunting seasons will be over.

 

We'll see!  :ph34r:

 

..........Widder

 

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The best thing that ever happens to the firearms industry is the perceived 'hostility' of national administrations. 

 

In the wake of the 2016 election, there was a 'Trump slump' in the industry, as folks lost their cyclical fear of firearms restrictions.

 

Then with Covid, civil unrest, and political worries, in 2020 the biggest buying spree ever started. With the Biden election, the demand will only continue and increase.

 

When I think about it, my guess is that without organized anti-gun political movements in the last 50 years, there would probably have been far fewer firearms in private ownership than there are now, perhaps by the tens of millions.

 

When it was taken for granted, nobody cared about it, gun ownership was matter-of-fact, people didn't buy so many guns and saw no need to do so.

 

So now is a good time to ramp up capacity.

 

 

Edited by Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619
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Well, that was good to see, and hear, what he had to say. 

Okay...since he stated that they had made more ammunition in 2020 than in any year previous, and that the company is 99 years old....then there must have been a whopping number of new, first time, firearms owners, and hunters, out there in 2020!!! They made more, but I did not see any. I presume it was all bought up before I could get to the store to buy any. I wonder where they were shipped? Dang sure wasn't acadamy!!! I have more holes in my long johns, than they have ammunition on their shelves!   

Hopefully, given time, this will get better. But...I have to believe it will be a long while. 

 

I have several pounds of black powder, several boxes of round ball/conical bullets, and I have flintlocks, so I can bypass the absolute have-to-have percussion caps/primers/self-contained ammunition, and I can still go out and shoot at targets/cow-patties, and the like.  Humm...It seems there IS a place for flintlocks, after all.   But...I guess I might want to be concerned with the potential shortage of rocks that spark. Dang...chert, and flint hoarding, is right around the corner!!! I can see it now...gillions of new flintlock gun owners, walking side by side across America, picking up any kind of rock that may spark on a frizzen, and putting them on the gun-sites, for a dollar each, or fifty bucks for a box of forty...sorta like they are doing now, with all kinds of ammunition, and reloading components. Maybe I should have purchased some matchlocks....but wait...a potential shortage of slow burning fuses, to ignite the power in the pan!!! Nope, matchlocks are out too. 

Bow and arrows? Well, with the potential shortage of flint for arrow-heads, that won't work either.

Maybe, a video game with virtual target shooting, and maybe a virtual target, or cow-patty? Unless the liberal/socialists/leftists want to shut that down, too, because it is too "violent", and could lead to violent crime. I grew up watching the Mattel commercials, on t.v., selling their "Fanner Fifty" cap guns, and worse still their "Shootin' Shell" cap guns, and I have yet to take anyone's life, outside my military service that is.

I guess, to head off any potential hoarding of chert, or flint, I need to start hitting those stream beds, and railroad track-beds, and hope I am not too late.  

W.K.

     

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Quick note: did anyone else notice he said the primers were being used for their internal needs to produce “Remington, CCI, Federal, Speer ammunition”? It’s at 3:30 in the video. 
 

Federal is owned by Vista Outdoors. Remington ammunition is now owned by Vista Outdoors. https://vistaoutdoor.com/brands/
 

Does this mean there will be no more Remington primers?

Does this mean Remington ammo is being made by Federal?

OR 

Does this mean that this gentleman speaking is the head of Remington ammunition as well as Federal and he added Remington into his discussion as it’s part of his purview?


EDIT

Okay towards the end he mentions they are doing a fun video in regards to “What we are doing at Remington”. Perhaps he was just including Remington as a Vista Outdoors brand earlier in the video. That is at 4:50 in the video. 

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748
Jumped the gun
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I call BS. Hunting ammo, really? Since when does a hunter use hundreds of rounds of ammo on a hunting trip or sighting in the gun? I don't know where the primers and ammo are...but it isn't being used up "hunting".

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

I call BS. Hunting ammo, really? Since when does a hunter use hundreds of rounds of ammo on a hunting trip or sighting in the gun? I don't know where the primers and ammo are...but it isn't being used up "hunting".

You beat me to it! How many rounds do hunters use? This video tells me he could care less about us reloading slobs and he wants us to BUY his ammo! 

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5 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Not one word on military and LEO contracts. 

No word on consumer powders either.

Wonder how much is being shipped out of country? 

This is mostly 'fluff'.......

OLG 

They make more money on ammunition than do on primers and powder and bullets. Typical CEO! He's pushing to make as much money as he can! Can't blame him for that but be honest about it!!:angry:

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11 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Manufacturing equipment. Or if buying all new, no one has this stuff in stock so hopefully it would be there when it opened.

You're assuming 3 or 4 large companies are all going to get together and hug and work towards a common goal. I've been involved an a lot of JV's and the discussion on investment, management, operations, and sharing potential profit is a long and difficult one. And why build a new building? That would 18 months to 2 years.

Agreed, a building can be found, no need to green field. As for the machines, the only part with intrigue is the former/depositor at the front end. All else is conveyance, counting, accumulating  and packing which are largely "off the shelf" with some minor modifications. So, say 5 months for first 2 machines. Others dependent on need.

 

IMHO with 19+ million gun sales, and 7 million first time shooters in 2020, something needs to go down those barrels.  IMHO if these folks are industry leaders they'd find a way to "get 'er done". 

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I wish he had been more upfront about what falls into the category of "hunting ammo"...  .223, 7.62, and .308   They have huge military, police, and government contracts all over the world.  Contracts get filled first.  Then the gigantic backlog of orders from everywhere for 9mm, .380, .32acp, .45acp, .223 and other popular calibers. 

I'm thinking this means it's going to be 2 years before we see a decent supply of primers back on the shelves... enough to discourage the scalpers.

 

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

They make more money on ammunition than do on primers and powder and bullets. Typical CEO! He's pushing to make as much money as he can! Can't blame him for that but be honest about it!!:angry:

 

When is the last time any CEO told the truth about anything? They'll say whatever it takes to placate the masses. 

 

BTW, Mr. Vanderbrink's 2020 salary was 1.2 million+  and all the ammo/primers he could ever want. 

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49 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

When is the last time any CEO told the truth about anything? They'll say whatever it takes to placate the masses. 

Please tell me why he would lie? The have the highest demand ever experienced. The potential for huge profits is there. So

you're saying he's lying and holding back production to "scalp" the end buyers? 3 big ammo CEO's have all come out and said the same thing. Are they all in cahoots with each other? I thing not.

54 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

BTW, Mr. Vanderbrink's 2020 salary was 1.2 million+  and all the ammo/primers he could ever want. 

You're forgetting bonus, stock options, and benefits, Probably $2.5 million. Good for him.

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4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Not one word on military and LEO contracts. 

No word on consumer powders either.

Wonder how much is being shipped out of country? 

This is mostly 'fluff'.......

OLG 

Boy, I do agree with this!

Unprecedented demand is blamed for the ammo shortage.
Nobody I know is able to buy any.. so where is this demand, and who is buying?

This sort of fluff adds to the tinfoil hat because it flies in the face of logic.
If there is none or little ammo, ANYWHERE, then who is consuming it?

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33 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Please tell me why he would lie? The have the highest demand ever experienced. The potential for huge profits is there. So

you're saying he's lying and holding back production to "scalp" the end buyers? 3 big ammo CEO's have all come out and said the same thing. Are they all in cahoots with each other? I thing not.

You're forgetting bonus, stock options, and benefits, Probably $2.5 million. Good for him.

 

I stated any CEOs. I did not target Vanderbrink in any way. CEO's do not answer to anyone but the stockholders. Read between the lines.

 

By todays standards, whatever they may be, 2.5 million is low pay for a CEO of a large company.

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13 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

When I think about it, my guess is that without organized anti-gun political movements in the last 50 years, there would probably have been far fewer firearms in private ownership than there are now, perhaps by the tens of millions.

 

I'm proof positive of that. I can say with absolute certainty that I wouldn't own near as many ARs and large magazines if it wasn't for the ever-constant threat of them being banned. I certainly don't own a half-dozen electric drills. If mine breaks I can always go down to the hardware store and buy another one. But any semi-autos and large magazines you own may not be replaceable in another ten years, thus the perpetual need to make sure you have enough to last you the rest of your life.

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34 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Yeah boy, they're all out to get us...even our own people...

 

Gimme a break.

 

Not sure who "they are out to get us" and "our own people" really are anymore. The CEOs are out to make the most money for their stockholders and themselves. Can't blame them for that. As far as the "our own people", I know plenty of supposedly 2A "supporters" that either voted for the anti-gun candidate or just didn't vote for the position of POTUS at all. 

I'd have to say that our own people aren't "out to get us".....they already have.

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Funny thing is, while all the online ammo vendors and big-box stores are perpetually out of ammo, there is always plenty to be had on Gunbroker. If you're willing to bid against everyone else and pay $2+ a round of course.

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1 hour ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Funny thing is, while all the online ammo vendors and big-box stores are perpetually out of ammo, there is always plenty to be had on Gunbroker. If you're willing to bid against everyone else and pay $2+ a round of course.

That’s because hoarders and opportunists are buying up ammo and reselling. 

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32 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

That’s because hoarders and opportunists are buying up ammo and reselling. 

 

Yes that's true, but it also answers the question of where is all the ammo. It's out there, but it's all in the hands of the price scalpers. Even normal resellers have realized they can make more money by auctioning it off to the highest bidder than selling it in their store for a fixed amount.

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1 hour ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Funny thing is, while all the online ammo vendors and big-box stores are perpetually out of ammo, there is always plenty to be had on Gunbroker. If you're willing to bid against everyone else and pay $2+ a round of course.

During the last ammo shortage WalMart employees bought all the ammo delivered to their stores before it was shelved and sold it a scalper prices at local gun shows.  I never held this against them knowing the how little they were paid.

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The history of ammo & firearms sales in the US has taught mfg's to be very cautious about expanding capacity when demand increases at many times normal growth rate.  Except for the current spike all have been tied to politics.  You have Columbine & Sandy Hook which triggered legislation to restrict 2A rights.  2020 was different in that it was a pandemic that triggered in the public's mind  worry of possible collapse of civil society.  The 8 million 1st time gun owners bought their firearm to protect their stuff; because, of the fear mongering by the Fake News Media that showed empty store shelves.  Then comes civil unrest with the police mostly standing by as destruction & looting happened in front of them.  It is not the polices fault but their politician masters that told them to stand by.  What does a person do when their lying eyes see those that they believe will protect them not maintaining civil order?  You retreat to a safe place or acquire means to protect oneself & family.  The high volume ammo & component mfg's aren't going to invest millions of dollars on expanding capacity unless they see demand reach a new normal.  In 2018 & 2019 they were almost giving ammo away.  In 2018 & 2019 I didn't reload any 223/5.56 & 308 because there wasn't enough savings by reloading to make it worth the effort.  I bought a lot of Federal 5.56 55 & 62 grain for 28.5-30 cents each including freight (free) after Federal rebate.  I think I paid $300 for 1000 rounds in 2000.  In the years after Sandy Hook my 22LR inventory went from 500 to 22,500.  Most of the 22LR stock was purchased in 3,000-5,000 lots.  I quit buying 22LR when I decided to count my inventory and counted 22,500 even though you could still find it for 3.5 to 4 cents a round delivered.  The last few lots cost 3.5 cents a pop.    I am not interested in profiting off my 22LR stash. 

P.S. After Sandy Hook several foreign ammo mfg's built factories in the US.  Aguila & Fiocchi now mfg ammo in the US.  I think the reason 22LR is not unobtainium like after Sandy Hook is the expansion of capacity.   My recent experience with 2 firearms purchases is that both big box & local guns stores have their ammo inventory stored out of sight.  In both cases they asked me if I needed ammo.

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Well, I didn't win the Powerball or the MegaMillions, so I won't be able to open that new primer  plant at this time...

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