Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Hoss

Canceled/postponed match fee refunds

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I was/Am signed up for 3 annual matchs, Trailhead, Comancheria Days, Land Run.  two of them have already been postponed, and the 3rd (Land Run) has not made a decision yet.  (hopefully this mess will be quieted down by then) 

 

All the clubs that had spring annuals sceduled have very likely already prichased the awards, raffle items, and paid deposits on banquets, meeting halls , paid for upfgrades to ranges, all sorts of expenses.  Now, with the matches being cancelled or indefinilty postponed, they are looking at havng to make refunds for match fees, out of money they likley dont have.  While none of us likes to lose money, please consider refusing a refund.  I think in many cases, refunds are going to break clubs, or at a miumum cause a pretty severe financla hardship.  

Edited by Hoss
  • Like 10
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only have one outstanding paid match fee.  If that match gets rescheduled I'm perfectly fine with that MD holding onto my match fees.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I can't make it to the re-scheduled Ides of March, or they cancel it, I told Greta Dee not to worry about a refund.   They will have enough problems.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VERY GENEROUS OF YOU FOLKS.

 

 But, that actually IS NOT, “The Cowboy Way”.  I dislike seeing that term bandied about, when it’s not applicable, as it is here, as as attempt to “shame” people into agreeing to forfeit their prepaid fees.  

 

My belief is that, if prepaid fees are made, those fees must be refunded 100%.  


But, if some people individually agree to a lesser refund, in the spirit of, “If one suffers, all should suffer,” then I believe that Prepaid's should receive AT LEAST  1/2 of their match fees returned NOW and the remainder within 6 months.
 

Your opinions may vary, of course, from mine.

 

Cat Brules

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cat Brules said:

VERY GENEROUS OF YOU FOLKS.

 

 But, that actually IS NOT, “The Cowboy Way”.  I dislike seeing that term bandied about, when it’s not applicable, as it is here, as as attempt to “shame” people into agreeing to forfeit their prepaid fees.  

 

My belief is that, if prepaid fees are made, those fees must be refunded 100%.  


But, if some people individually agree to a lesser refund, in the spirit of, “If one suffers, all should suffer,” then I believe that Prepaid's should receive AT LEAST  1/2 of their match fees returned NOW and the remainder within 6 months.
 

Your opinions may vary, of course, from mine.

 

Cat Brules

Thanks for instructing us on what the Cowboy way is and isn't CB.  As usual you are a font of wisdom.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I was/Am signed up for 3 annual matchs, Trailhead, Comancheria Days, Land Run.  two of them have already been postponed, and the 3rd (Land Run) has not made a decision yet.  (hopefully this mess will be quieted down by then) 

 

All the clubs that had spring annuals sceduled have very likely already prichased the awards, raffle items, and paid deposits on banquets, meeting halls , paid for upfgrades to ranges, all sorts of expenses.  Now, with the matches being cancelled or indefinilty postponed, they are looking at havng to make refunds for match fees, out of money they likley dont have.  While none of us likes to lose money, please consider refusing a refund.  I think in many cases, refunds are going to break clubs, or at a miumum cause a pretty severe financla hardship.  

Thank you for posting this. 

All of us get high value from having our clubs stay solvent and able to pay all the costs associated with putting on these annual matches that we all look forward to.  Those underlying costs and tasks are often less than evident, when we show up to shoot the match.  But behind the scenes lots of people have spent lots of time and club money and sometimes lots of out-of-pocket money to make our events happen.  It is great that under these current cancelation  circumstances the host clubs offer refunds, out of fairness.  It's even better when shooters are able to waive those refunds out of appreciation.  Even better yet when they decide to pitch in next year to help with labor, donated raffle prizes, sponsorships, or whatever they can afford to do.  We all benefit and appreciate.  

Thank you again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Thanks for instructing us on what the Cowboy way is and isn't CB.  As usual you are a font of wisdom.

You nailed it.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Riders in the Sky was quoting another poem, but this always did it for me...

 

It's the courage of the pioneers that crossed the continent span
It's the spirit of the red man who shed their blood to save their land
It's the will to know the truth, good or bad, come what may
It's a heart that's free and grateful,
It's The Cowboy Way

It's the strength to say you're sorry, admit that you were wrong
It's the wisdom too, to recognize the times you must be strong
It's a love of Nature's creatures in their struggle and their play
It's the quiet flame of justice, It's The Cowboy Way

It's the hand to help a neighbor, or a stranger in their need
It's the love of humankind with not a thought of race or creed
It's the courage of convictions, without posture or display
It's the peaceful sleep of children, It's The Cowboy Way

It's the moment that you take before words you might regret
It's the time you give to others with no thought of what you'll get
It's the time you take in smelling all the roses on the way
It's doing just the best you can, It's The Cowboy Way

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cat Brules said:

VERY GENEROUS OF YOU FOLKS.

 

 But, that actually IS NOT, “The Cowboy Way”.  I dislike seeing that term bandied about, when it’s not applicable, as it is here, as as attempt to “shame” people into agreeing to forfeit their prepaid fees.  

 

My belief is that, if prepaid fees are made, those fees must be refunded 100%.  


But, if some people individually agree to a lesser refund, in the spirit of, “If one suffers, all should suffer,” then I believe that Prepaid's should receive AT LEAST  1/2 of their match fees returned NOW and the remainder within 6 months.
 

Your opinions may vary, of course, from mine.

 

Cat Brules

Cat, I’ve got to disagree with you. What if there is no money in the club treasury to make the refunds? Do the club members have to pitch in to cover the shortfall? 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said:

Did I start something? Just MY opinion.

You're just fine .......

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I helped run a volunteer organization for many years. At times the buck stopped with me. I know first hand what kind of planning and expenses go into organizing and holding a large event. Many times last minute expenses pop up that weren't budgeted for in the event planning, even if you allow a certain amount for foreseen circumstances. That being said, I have already paid for one scheduled large event this year and plan on paying for two more. When I write that check, to me, the money is spent, gone from my budget. If something happens I can't attend, I don't expect a refund. If something happens the organizing club can't hold the event due to an act of God, man or mother nature I don't expect a refund because most of the time the money I sent has already been spent, on awards, new targets, making facilities better or even graveling the area. If the event is postponed to a later date and I can make that date then yes, I would expect my entry to still be covered. Regards to all

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The folks at Land Run can keep my entry fees if we can’t shoot because of this damn virus, it still 5 weeks away so hopefully it will be held.  SCJ

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2020 at 12:13 PM, Hoss said:

Cat, I’ve got to disagree with you. What if there is no money in the club treasury to make the refunds? Do the club members have to pitch in to cover the shortfall? 


I don’t know, Hoss.  I understand the gesture by some to stand up tall, empathize,  and wanting to help in some way, those folks feeling the pain and wanting to help, but we all get into unforeseeable trouble along the way   For the club to expect to be made whole (at least in part) by generous shooters’ forfeiting their match fees, the least the club could do is to only accept a fair percentage.  In most clubs a few members will quietly ante up something to help.  

 

When matches are planned, how much planning goes into “the worst case scenario”?  Probably none or not much.  If the club has no funds after planning, preparing and expending funds for a match using shooters’ prepaid funds, and without doing reasonable catastrophe planning or having some reasonable amount of backup funds, perhaps they shouldn’t have/put on the match.  Condemning the lack of thinking is legitimate and has significant merit, wouldn’t a thoughtful and reasonable person think?  In fact, on a list of priorities or (P’s), for planning a large or an annual match, i believe “catastrophe” planning should at least be, “P3”.

 

The club must hurt too!!!   These situations shouldn’t happen.  I do believe that if the members of the financially stressed clubs are served with a “special assessment” from a 2/3 (or a majority over 1/2) of the club officers), the members have the option of ponying up, or voluntarily or involuntarily, losing their membership until they do pay and not being permitted to shoot at the club as a non-member or a member, until they do pay.  Hopefully better management comes on board when a mess like that is sorted out.

 

And, everyone should have a problem with that, because good records may often not exist for new management to come in.  It would be a big job.  I think that may be why when elections come around, few members run against the established, same old officers.  Of course, there will be many who disagree wth my statements here.  Let’em.  There’s a hell of a lot I have to worry about besides a few mean Wire naysayers.  I just was released from a hospital and I need to get better, and catch up and focus on real family and personal issues

 

Hoss, I think I answered your question earlier herein, in the midst of my other ramblings.:-). Anyway, it’s okay and good for us to disagree, and I’m sure most of us welcome friendly disagreement, no matter how involved it gets.

 

Hoss, I appreciate your reply, and I regularly read your other replies here on the Wire.   I appreciate you and others like you here.  I do tend to be forthcoming here and to share what little I know in an effort to help others.  I like to see such information coming ftom others too!  For some reason, there are some who read the Wire who do not like to see/hear such helpful (or not) information.  Of course I, like others, do lose interest in certain Topics and often enough, I don’t go back to a topic to see how it ”ends”.  Oh, well.

 

Again Hoss, I do appreciate kind, and useful information, questions, disagreement, and lighter fare.  


Thanks very much.....maybe we’ll meet someday.

 

Cat Brules

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Cat Brules, would you like some cheese with your "whine"?

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Dear Cat Brules, would you like some cheese with your "whine"?

 

Oh, HUSH UP!!  :lol:
 

No!!  I’d like some wine with  my cheese.  Lots of it!!   A nice vintage California  Cabernet, please...several bottles, Chilled.  We can share AND call one another names for a while.

:D
Cat Brules

Edited by Cat Brules

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2020 at 9:13 AM, Hoss said:

What if there is no money in the club treasury to make the refunds? Do the club members have to pitch in to cover the shortfall? 

That's the crux issue, to my thinking.  Good planning could avoid the problem, but that doesn't always happen.  Sometimes, financial risks get taken for clubs to reach further to put on a better event for all of us to enjoy.  It doesn't always work out profitably, but % losses are not usually catastrophic, and we can float over them using other income sources like monthly match fees.  Most of us would agree this present situation is an unusual one, where entire events have to be canceled, some with little lead time, and after major monies have been expended.  But keep in mind that ALL OF IT IS FOR US.  Nobody's making any personal profits directly off of  CAS.  

 

On the other side are many of us who keep looking for ways to be a part of, and help OUR club, and we look continually for ways to contribute.  This occasion is one of those.  We all know our clubs will act fairly every time, if they can.  And if they cannot do it, we are ready and willing to forgive andor pitch in.  To me, loss of a couple match fees is much more desirable than seeing my clubs either fail completely or become unable to afford to put on future events.  

Again, regardless of outcomes, all of it is intended to be for our benefit. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a club cannot refund me, I will be ok. They have to determine their costs to date in order to make these decisions. Match fees are not going to break me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a crap sandwich and in some form or another, we all will be taking a bite. How big a bite? Well, that remains to be seen. If you can "donate" your fee to the club, great. Maybe you get laid off and need the money. I'm going to be ok. My wife works, and her job is safe. I get a good pension, and I just got a new retirement job (my play money) that pays twice what the old one did.

I know that the annuals are how clubs pay the bills for the year. Some clubs, like some businesses and people, will take a loss. This is life. Some days you're the windshield and some days you're the bug. The last thing we need is to be attacking each other.

That's just my 2 cents. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

This is a crap sandwich and in some form or another, we all will be taking a bite. How big a bite? Well, that remains to be seen. If you can "donate" your fee to the club, great. Maybe you get laid off and need the money. I'm going to be ok. My wife works, and her job is safe. I get a good pension, and I just got a new retirement job (my play money) that pays twice what the old one did.

I know that the annuals are how clubs pay the bills for the year. Some clubs, like some businesses and people, will take a loss. This is life. Some days you're the windshield and some days you're the bug. The last thing we need is to be attacking each other.

That's just my 2 cents. 

Very astute observation.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would let them keep it towards the next year's event. Then I'm out nothing and they get a little help.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hoss,

Thanks for your concern and understanding, but from my perspective as a match director, i want everyone to know that if Land Run was forced to cancel or postpone we will offer full refunds to all participants. While i certainly don't look forward to writing and mailing 400 checks, I don't want anyone to refrain from sending their entry for fear of losing their money. Thanks again to all who voiced their opinions on this topic.

Flat Top Okie

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im in on a couple and not going to assume they will be canceled at this point , i would be fine making a club donation to these clubs if they do , in the past one got rained out - i still had a great time talkin and camping and never even thought of a refund , dont see a reason to think different on this , i would hate to miss my favorite shoots because of this situation , but if it happens - it happens , i still support my favorite clubs no matter how crazy this gets and im sorry , i think its a bit crazy , 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would agree with donating my match fees to a club if it were one or two, however when it reaches more than $2000. I really can't afford that.

kR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.