Who has Radiant Heating in their home?

[Fence Cutter]

Wanting to hear from those of you who have and use Radiant Heating......

 

Looking at a new home that has it and would like to know the pros and cons.......

 

Websites and everyone I talk to all have positive input, what are your experiences.........?

 

Is it in the floor, ceiling, heated by Gas, Electric or wood...

 

Fill me in!

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I had a professor who had radiant heat in the ceiling. He was 6 4 and balding.  Wore a knit hat in the house in the winter.

[G W Wade]

I have electric radiant heat in my ceilings.  Rarely hear much about it.  Most people tell me the house feels cold.   Olive oil in the cupboards get cloudy,   wife laid a comforter over my recliner and in the morning I removed it to sit down and mt chair was cold..    Each room has it's own thermostat so you can adjust each to your own preference. Cool for sleeping and warmer in family (TV) room.  Seem fairly cheap to operate, but can be annoying in early spring or late fall because it takes a while to warm up and cools down slowly.  House was built in the mid 70's.       GW

[Alpo]

I rented a house, in 1980, in Orlando. It had radiant heat in the ceiling. The electric bill that winter ran over $200 a month.

 

$200 a month, in 1980, in Central Florida. And it wasn't very warm.

 

I bet the attic was warm though, since heat rises.

 

If you're going to get radiant heat, get it in the floor.

[JD Lud]

I currently have radiant in floor heating in the PNW.  Zones include garage, basement, main floor, and 2nd floor so lots of concrete layers (can't put anything into ceilings) and zones on each floor.  Water is heated by a gas heater unit in the garage, which as a byproduct keeps the garage warm without turning on heat in that zone.   This is our first house with radiant, we had geothermal in the midwest when we left.  

 

Its hard to compare cost exactly as utility rates up here are higher, but I think it is more expensive than geo.  For around a 6,000 sq foot house, my total electric bill for everything including the geo was around 260 per month year average (AC in summer, heat in frozen winter) which at the time seemed high to me....but would love to have that bill now.  My electric alone up here is about 300 per month and I probably burn around 165 gallons per month for about 5,000 sq foot in much milder temps.  At 1.69 or so a gallon plus taxes, its about 300 per winter month just for propane, then tack on 300 for electric....a kick in the pants.

 

The heat is fine, they say you should never feel warm floor spots if system was put in right.  I had never had radiant before this place, inspector said all was fine.  I wish I would have hired an inspector specifically for the radiant system as it was apparently some sort of home-brew type system but I had no idea what or was not normal (I did this for the geo portion but I was close by, this was a long move).  When I called a company to do a service and inspection because one zone wouldn't heat, he said since its not wired/routed/labeled the way they would do it they couldn't do much without 10k to upgrade everything (that same company sticker was on the equipment as if they had been there before so I am guessing old owner knew).  I really wanted to see what could be done to lower the burn rate, but at 10k I can burn a lot of extra propane before I upgrade.

 

I can't tell the difference really in the feel between geo and radiant.  Forced air could always feel it moving.  My wife says the heat feels "spotty" as we have some areas that are not heated well, but this could be do to install and not overall how it should work.

 

I would want all the info I could get on the system, how it was designed and sized, etc and have a person come inspect.  I would also spend the money on an inspection by a radiant heating expert who knew more than an average home inspector.  I was told if air gets into the system it causes rust, and if you have clogs or damage in the system you can basically be screwed to the point it may be cheaper to put a separate heating system in rather than repair (from the company that visited).

 

Maintenance is recommended on the burner annually.

 

Sorry, just this one instance to provide.  Im not sure if I would want radiant if I moved somewhere based on this one experience...but it works fine for now.

[Arkansas Jim 107095]

We had baseboard radiant heat in our house in Colorado. Liked it very much. Had a two story log house with basement. Had 6 different zones to regulate the temps so had a lot of control. Ours was a boiler system in basement. Boiler also supplied our hot water. Was propane fired but was pretty cheap to run

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Friends of ours have it in a large enclosed patio addition to their house. It's an electric grid underneath a tile floor. Saved them the expense of running duct work to it or plumbing for hot water radiators. It's more efficient than electric baseboard heaters, but it takes long time to warm up the room. They definitely have to plan ahead when they want use the space.

 

Since warm air rises, I can't imagine radiant heat from the ceiling being effective without a means to circulate it to chair level. 

[Pat Riot]

We rented and apartment once that had radiant heating in the floors. The floors were concrete. The system sucked in a couple of ways.

One - it didn’t work for crap.
Two - It sucked money out of our wallets. 
Our electric bill was over $450 in February in So Cal in 1990. It doesn’t freeze in Southern California near the beach. 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I have radiant infloor heat for my house. It was built new in 2000. My wife and I designed our house (with the help of a computer program and our contractor). I had to be convinced that infloor was the way to go. Our home is 3800 sq ft and has a 5' crawl space with wood floors. It is 4 bedrooms, 4 baths and a large great room. The heating is supplied by a propane fired boiler. I have 7 zones (thermostats). Because it is infloor radiant heat, special carpet padding and flooring insulation must be used.

 

It was more expensive than other types of heat (forced air, etc), but much more efficient. Just topped off my propane tank Tuesday and used 90 gallons in a month. It has been pretty cold ( days 40's; nights 10 to 12), but this wasn't that bad at $123.00 for the month. Much cheaper than other types of heat. Propane is used for hot water also from the boiler.

 

The only thing negative is it takes several hours to heat a room when a thermostat is turned on. But it is sure nice to walk around barefoot on a warm floor!

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

We have a radiant system in our summer cottage on Cape Cod.  Winter temps can run from 10 - 40 degrees.  We built this home, with light-weight concrete 1st floor and conventional framed 2nd floor.  6" well-insulated walls. Thermal windows and doors. PEX tubing runs through insulated 1st floor slab, circulating hot water from a natural gas high efficiency direct vent boiler in the attic.  Entire 1st floor is a thermal mass, and once heated, can evenly and quietly heat the entire space.  2nd floor has separately zoned baseboard radiant, but we never turn it on; there is enough chimney effect via a circular stair opening that the 2nd floor is warmed by the 1st.  There is a ton of variation in radiant system design, and not a lot of highly skilled designers and installers.  Don't buy a system from your plumber, or from anyone without an extensive history of satisfied users.  Check with your local building inspector for input on any installer you are considering.  Buy high quality components, especially the boiler.  In this part of the country, no one installs all electric systems anymore - cost of operation is too high.  No one installs rigid piping systems; too fragile and subject to corrosion; PEX tubing rules the industry.  Yes, there is an initial lag when you first start the system for the season, until the slab warms up; after that, the large thermal mass "smooths out" temperature transitions, and you get nice, even heat.  If you design the house with lots of south facing windows and tiled floors, you get the extra benefit of solar gain.  We also have a gas-fired fireplace on the 1st floor, for those cool Fall evenings before we need to start the radiant.  Pluses: very quiet in operation; even heat; warm to the touch floors; no breezes from a forced hot air system; comparatively inexpensive to operate; less indoor air pollution; slab is cool in summer.  Minuses:  Less forgiving if system is not properly designed and installed.  We love ours, especially the warm floors. 

 

LL

[Sedalia Dave]

The age of the system and how well it was installed will be the major factors in if you like the system or not. Before I would buy it I would have it inspected by a qualified installer.

 

Radiant in-floor heat like LL has when installed correctly can be very efficient as long as you understand how it works.

 

All electric radiant heat I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

[Rye Miles #13621]

My son just sold a house that had radiant heat under the floors. It was heated by a boiler with natural gas. It worked great! His gas bills were affordable and no increase in electric. It was quiet and worked very well.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

In my non-cowboy life I’m a registered mechanical engineer with 25+ years working with energy systems. Yes, I’ve also lived in houses with radiant floor heat, electric heat pumps, and gas furnaces. 

 

“Radiant heat” means a lot of things to a lot of people. In the house you’re thinking of buying, is the heating system...

 

...in the ceiling?  Don’t buy it. The system will do a great job of heating the attic or second floor, but not the room it’s in. Physics can’t be overcome. 

 

...powered by electric resistance coils in the floor?  Don’t buy it. Resistance heat is the single most expensive way to heat your house, by a factor of 3-6x. And don’t fall into the trap of the claim that it’s “100% efficient”.  We can talk more about that if you want. 

 

...a floor-based fluid loop heated by a ground- or air-source heat pump?  This is a better option, but ask to see the system in operation on a cold day. Heat pumps are limited on the fluid temperatures they can produce before switching on their resistance coils. 

 

...a floor-based fluid loop heated by a high efficiency natural gas unit?  This is your best option for warm comfortable temperatures at a low energy cost. 

 

Even with gas heat, a radiant system takes a long time to warm a room initially. Once it’s at temperature, they tend to be quite comfortable. 

 

And nothing beats warm floors on a frosty morning. 

 

A well designed radiant system is a thing of beauty, but there are too many systems out there which can leave you disappointed and broke. 

 

Feel free to PM if you want to talk more. 

[T.J. Bones SASS# 75616]

We have both baseboard radiant heat and forced air heat in our house. House was built in 1975 2x4 walls, fiberglass insulation. Propane boiler is a 60% efficient 1975 model. Forced air is 95% efficient put in 5 years ago when we had to replace our air conditioner. We were really excited that we were going to save on our heating bill with the high efficiency furnace, didn't happen. We ran the forced air for two months the first winter. Used about 100 gal. of propane a month, same as what it took when using the boiler.  With the forced air heat we could always feel temperature change before and after the furnace ran.  With the radiant heat you don't feel the temp changes and it is quieter. We have not used the forced air except for 3 days when we were waiting for a part for the boiler pump. If we had to make a choice between the two, no question it would be radiant.

[bgavin]

I remember spending a winter in a summer cottage in West Dennis (Cape Cod)... good grief was that cold....

[Yul Lose]

Back in the early 90’s (1990’s) my wife and I bought a cabin in Story Wyoming that had been built in 1933. We bought it from the estate of the builder who lived there all of those years. It was very hard to keep warm so one summer my stepson and three of his friends, all in the construction trades, gutted, reinsulated, rewired, replumbed, reroofed the entire structure and installed radiant heat. It was probably the only place in that little town that had that type of a heating system and it kept that little cabin very comfortable. We heated with propane and if I remember correctly our highest propane bill was $87.00. I kick myself to this day for selling it when the last one of my kids left my practice wife’s house.

 

Down here we live in an Adobe with 18” thick walls, you know the warm in the winter cool in the summer jazz. It ain’t so. In the winter it takes a lot of propane or firewood to keep the Adobe heated up and in the summer keeping it cool isn’t that cheap either but the solar system we installed about 10 years ago keeps the electric bill reasonable $1,137.00 for 2019 versus $650-$750.00 per month without solar.

 

If I ever built a house I’d install radiant heat.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

8 hours ago, bgavin said:

I remember spending a winter in a summer cottage in West Dennis (Cape Cod)... good grief was that cold....

 

The operative term is "summer" cottage.  Many uninsulated cottages in that area, with little or no heat.  Not a wise winter choice, especially near the water.

 

We call our place a "summer cottage", but it is actually a small house, fully insulated, weathertite, and well heated; it's just that, until we retire, we use it primarily in the summer.

 

LL

[bgavin]

My chilly experience was 1971... I was working as a mechanic at Bullock Toyota in Hyannis, living in West Dennis.
Only rented there for 1 winter before moving closer in and a real house with real insulation.

We stayed another 18 months after that, then moved back to CA.
The winter Cape was nice back then, nearly empty.
I can only imagine how crowded it is today, year-round.
 

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

Being as how I live in Texas.... We have radiant heating all year long. Most effective is in the months from May through October when we have between 60 and 90 100+ degree days. During that period the house warms up inside to a nice toasty 130 degrees or so. From November through March the radiant heating is somewhat less efficient and it only warms up to about 70 or  so unless it is 90 degrees + outside.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

53 minutes ago, bgavin said:

My chilly experience was 1971... I was working as a mechanic at Bullock Toyota in Hyannis, living in West Dennis.
Only rented there for 1 winter before moving closer in and a real house with real insulation.

We stayed another 18 months after that, then moved back to CA.
The winter Cape was nice back then, nearly empty.
I can only imagine how crowded it is today, year-round.
 

 

I lived year round on the Cape in the early 1980's.  Back then, most stores and restaurants closed after Labor Day and did not re-open until May.  Hard place to make a living, but a quiet, natural setting if you could afford to relax.

It's a year-round economy now, with a larger population and more development; but there are still preserved and open spaces, great beaches and dunes, fantastic boating and fishing, and most summer folks are gone by October.  

 

LL

[Fence Cutter]

Thanks to all who have shared their input. Using this and the contacts I've made I've figured this much out....

If installed correctly it's great, if not it sucks.

I only know this much so far.....

The house was built in mid 50s.  But I don't know if the system was built in then or added later. It is a gas set up. In the finished basement it is in the floor. On the main floor it is in the ceiling. The current unit was put in 9 years ago. I have only been in it once, and took a couple pix to start the research....

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

I grew up with NG space heaters. Dearborn? Wasn't bad. I love my NG central heater and the gas bills are never that bad, even in a bad winter (I know, you Yankees laugh it up, but it does get cold here). I don't know about these systems being discussed, but unless you have a honcho fan forced unit, why in the compound Hell would you put something like that in the ceiling..........when heat rises??????

JHC

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

5 hours ago, Fence Cutter said:

Thanks to all who have shared their input. Using this and the contacts I've made I've figured this much out....

If installed correctly it's great, if not it sucks.

I only know this much so far.....

The house was built in mid 50s.  But I don't know if the system was built in then or added later. It is a gas set up. In the finished basement it is in the floor. On the main floor it is in the ceiling. The current unit was put in 9 years ago. I have only been in it once, and took a couple pix to start the research....

 

Well, bearing in mind that I am not a plumber nor a heating system designer.....

 

- it looks like you have a 2010 Weil-McLain condensing direct vent boiler - a good piece of equipment for this application if properly maintained; have your service tech do a yearly check-up in the Spring; stainless steel burner, aluminum coated heat exchanger, integrated controls including outdoor temp monitor - a decent set up with multiple zone capability;

- The vertical (1"?) pipe on the left edge of the first photo is your cold water supply line;

- The two large PVC pipes in the center are the fresh air intake and the exhaust for the boiler; make sure your tech checks them each year, and that they do not loosen, separate or substantially discolor; any degradation could release CO into the house; replace them if you have any doubts; visible condensate leaking from the joints is a warning sign;

- The yellow jacketed line in the center is the gas supply line;

- The grey barrel at eye level is the expansion tank; any leakage may indicate a torn bladder and the need for replacement;

- There appear to be multiple circulation pumps for moving heated water through the radiant system; check these regularly for discoloration or leakage;

- Put that boiler manual in a plastic zip lock bag, and tape it to the boiler; your serviceman will thank you in 4 or 5 years;

- Overall, the boiler and primary piping looks professional and well done; what I can't see is the manifold, where hot water is distributed among various radiant lines; can you tell how your system is set up?  Are there lines running under the subfloor in large loops?  Or embedded in grooves under the finish flooring?  Or embedded in a concrete slab?  

- Where is your thermostat?

-- Do you know who the installer was?  The installer could be a valuable source of information.

 

Finally - this is a gas combustion device; out of adjustment, or improperly serviced, it can produce deadly CO.   Get it serviced regularly by a licensed gas fitter/service tech.

 

LL

 

PS:  These high efficiency boilers incorporate proprietary computerized controls, and require specialized knowledge and tools to properly install, set up and service; with the advent of this technology, the day of the general boiler repairman is quickly fading from view.  You now need to attend schools run by each manufacturer to stay current with new technology.  Many gas companies are discontinuing their service business, or limiting it to only certain manufacturers, given the expense and effort involved in adequate training on a wide variety of makes and models.  Choose a factory certified service tech; W-M is a major manufacturer, and will gladly identify candidates in your area.

 

LL

[Fence Cutter]

Yes I am filling sheets of paper with the questions I have for the owners of this house with this system in it.

And like most people I'm really skeptical of the main floor having the heating tubes in the ceiling.