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45 minutes to respond to a shooting


Trigger Mike

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a couple of weeks ago my neighbor texted me his friends police scanner picked up there was a shooting a mile from me.  A mile away is a real nice neighborhood.  I live on a dirt road, but it turns to pavement a mile away.  I found out tonight that one of my neighbors is related by marriage to another neighbor who owns a gun store.  typical gun store owner, nice enough but cheap on trades and expensive when you buy.  since there are only 2 in town you get past it.  the young neighbor gets drunk and starts yelling and drives to the gun store owner's house cussing and threatening to shoot him, only he is not home.  he then shoots nearly all the over a dozen ducks the man had in his pond.  another relative called the police.  meanwhile the older guy who owns the gun store comes home, he gets shot by the younger guy, he shoots back and hits him too but nothing major, gets him down and puts the gun to the young guys head but spares him (being a relative I guess) he gets up, runs home 2 blocks away in his truck and gets more guns, only FINALLY the police show up and chase him and he gets to the nice neighborhood where they run him off the road and arrest him.  His truck has bullet holes from the gun store owner.  Even though we are on a dirt road , we are still 1 mile out of the city limits of a decent size town.  We should be easier to find than 45 minutes.  everybody lived but it appears to be a case that shows that having a gun makes the difference between life and death and that you can't just wait for the police.  

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What’s that old saying?

”When seconds count the police are only minutes away”?

 

Maybe the police were involved in other things?

 

Too bad this scenario didn’t play out with some locally elected official’s house. Then maybe the budget might get increased for more police officers. 

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Another lesson is to be content where you are.  I had two white Peking ducks. They loved stealing food from my chickens and scraps from my dogs . They liked pooping on my porch so I would chase them away from my chickens and my porch.  They decided to go to live with my neighbor and his ducks and 2 months later they got shot. They should have stayed in my ponds. 

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Out here in the country there are reasons we have backhoe's. County Mounties are worthless and the highway patrol is 2 steps below that. Not their faults, just the way it is.

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9 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

a couple of weeks ago my neighbor texted me his friends police scanner picked up there was a shooting a mile from me.  A mile away is a real nice neighborhood.  I live on a dirt road, but it turns to pavement a mile away.  I found out tonight that one of my neighbors is related by marriage to another neighbor who owns a gun store.  typical gun store owner, nice enough but cheap on trades and expensive when you buy.  since there are only 2 in town you get past it.  the young neighbor gets drunk and starts yelling and drives to the gun store owner's house cussing and threatening to shoot him, only he is not home.  he then shoots nearly all the over a dozen ducks the man had in his pond.  another relative called the police.  meanwhile the older guy who owns the gun store comes home, he gets shot by the younger guy, he shoots back and hits him too but nothing major, gets him down and puts the gun to the young guys head but spares him (being a relative I guess) he gets up, runs home 2 blocks away in his truck and gets more guns, only FINALLY the police show up and chase him and he gets to the nice neighborhood where they run him off the road and arrest him.  His truck has bullet holes from the gun store owner.  Even though we are on a dirt road , we are still 1 mile out of the city limits of a decent size town.  We should be easier to find than 45 minutes.  everybody lived but it appears to be a case that shows that having a gun makes the difference between life and death and that you can't just wait for the police.  

Is there a link to the story?

OLG

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The response times will sound familiar to rural Canadian westerners, relying on the Queen's Cowboys.

Only any shooting done by the home owner will earn them an arrest and charges.

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At our place in Pacific Beach, the cops only come out for bikinis and dead bodies.
Usually, bikinis come first.
It takes a lot longer for a dead body, and takes forever for everything else.

On a good bikini day, one usually sees two police cars and three or four cops, plus bicycle cops on the boardwalk.

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Response times vary based on a number of factors.

We only have a 5 man sheriff's dept to cover over 1,000 square miles. We are the 6th least populated county in the state.

Absolute best possible response time to my place would be 20-45 minutes.

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1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Response times vary based on a number of factors.

We only have a 5 man sheriff's dept to cover over 1,000 square miles. We are the 6th least populated county in the state.

Absolute best possible response time to my place would be 20-45 minutes.

 

Plenty of time to make use of the backhoe :ph34r:

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51 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Plenty of time to make use of the backhoe :ph34r:

Our sheriff is very understanding.  ;)

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Response times vary based on a number of factors.

We only have a 5 man sheriff's dept to cover over 1,000 square miles. We are the 6th least populated county in the state.

Absolute best possible response time to my place would be 20-45 minutes.

 

Saw the same thing in Oregon. People outside my little town had quite a wait, but then they knew that and were prepared.

 

Same with my little town in North Carolina. In NC I had a neighbor's dog that tried to attack me, for the third time. I called 911 and told the Dispatcher that this was the third time I had to deal with this dog and I planned to shoot it. She said "Hold on". The line went dead. 10 seconds later she came back on and said "Honey, I just talked to the Deputy Watch Commander, he said 'Go Ahead". :D 

 

There are some things I truly do miss about North Carolina.

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I worked evening shift patrol for the Montgomery Co. Sheriff's Office, Montgomery, AL, for quite a few years.  It's a rather large, very rural county, and we only had 3 patrol cars working on most nights.  On occasion, the calls would come in spurts to where all 3 cars were tied up on major events.  The first car to get 10-8 often had to drive 45 minutes at break neck speeds on twisty 2-lane county roads to respond.  In rural counties, it's not like patrolling the city where the next available car is only a few blocks away.  A "shots fired" call generally gets attention pretty fast, so I'm sure the Deputies in the OP did the best they could on that night.

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I'm sure they did.  It is a good department with some problem areas in the county and we are usually quiet.  Having said that,  we are 15 minutes from the sheriff's office driving the speed limit.  We need to come up with a legal and sheriff supported way to help ourselves. 

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4 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said:

I'm sure they did.  It is a good department with some problem areas in the county and we are usually quiet.  Having said that,  we are 15 minutes from the sheriff's office driving the speed limit.  We need to come up with a legal and sheriff supported way to help ourselves. 

 

You need to talk to your sheriff and possibly to the district attorney of your county and get a copy of the use of force policy. Generally, you have the right to use deadly force ONLY if your life or the lives of others within your immediate vicinity are in mortal danger and you must be IN FEAR OF YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS! You cannot shoot someone for theft-not your chainsaw, your ATV or your car. You cannot shoot someone for making threats UNLESS that person has the immediate means of carrying out that threat. Example:  a man is standing 100 yards away, swinging a  baseball bat, shouting "I'm going to kill you!" Don't shoot him. Now, if that person is a 19 year old, built like a line backer, is running towards you swinging that bat and is about 10 yards away and you happen to be 60 years old and on disability, then you are justified.

 

Know the laws NOW before you act.

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I was thinking along the lines of some of us getting trained and deputized as a reserve force and rotating patrolling once in a while like a neighborhood watch.  Most of us have really long driveways and can't see our neighbor without being out on the road 

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45 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said:

I was thinking along the lines of some of us getting trained and deputized as a reserve force and rotating patrolling once in a while like a neighborhood watch.  Most of us have really long driveways and can't see our neighbor without being out on the road 

Check with your Sheriff's Office about Reserve or Auxilliary  Deputy programs.  Most S.O.'s have them, but they usually require graduating from a Minimum Standards training program/academy.  Neighborhood watch programs are also an option, but I've found that participation usually drops off after a short time, with only a handful of neighbors doing the heavy lifting.

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Yeah, I am pretty sure that in most states if someone comes onto your property and starts shooting at you it’s probably okay to assume you can fire back...even in California. ;)

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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Yeah, I am pretty sure that in most states if someone comes onto your property and starts shooting at you it’s probably okay to assume you can fire back...even in California. ;)

 

In New York state recently a man shot two home intruders and wound up in prison anyway, because the gun he used had belonged to his deceased father and wasn't registered to him.

.

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5 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

In New York state recently a man shot two home intruders and wound up in prison anyway, because the gun he used had belonged to his diseased father and wasn't registered to him.

Yeah, well, like I said "most states". 

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4 hours ago, Muley Gil SASS # 57795 said:

 

You need to talk to your sheriff and possibly to the district attorney of your county and get a copy of the use of force policy. Generally, you have the right to use deadly force ONLY if your life or the lives of others within your immediate vicinity are in mortal danger and you must be IN FEAR OF YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS! You cannot shoot someone for theft-not your chainsaw, your ATV or your car. You cannot shoot someone for making threats UNLESS that person has the immediate means of carrying out that threat. Example:  a man is standing 100 yards away, swinging a  baseball bat, shouting "I'm going to kill you!" Don't shoot him. Now, if that person is a 19 year old, built like a line backer, is running towards you swinging that bat and is about 10 yards away and you happen to be 60 years old and on disability, then you are justified.

 

Know the laws NOW before you act.

Darned good advice Muley!   I am 72 years old, have lost a lot of muscle mass while recovering from back surgery and now have a bad heart (A Fib).  most 15 year old girls could tie me in a knot and jerk it tight.   I have bad knees so I can't run away.  With all that, I will not shoot someone unless I believe that he is about to kill or maim me - like the man 21 feet away with a knife (do any of you know what 21 feet looks like?). I do not want to use my right to remain silent, my right to an attorney and my right to a trial by a jury of my peers just because some low life was in my garage steeling my tools.

 

Duffield

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8 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Response times vary based on a number of factors.

We only have a 5 man sheriff's dept to cover over 1,000 square miles. We are the 6th least populated county in the state.

Absolute best possible response time to my place would be 20-45 minutes.

 

A very astute veteran officer told me years ago that, "You can't drive fast enough for the people that need you, nor slow enough for the ones that don't."

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I talked to the victim today and he confirmed that the police took 45 minutes and the next jurisdiction over responded in 15 after he waited the 40 minutes.  He shot the guys truck 27 times with an AR .  The bad guy is still in jail 

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I live in a community with about 50,000 people, it's a suburb and the police are awesome. My neighbor two doors away is a policeman. Normal response time would be 5-10 minutes maybe quicker depending on where they're at in relation to my house.

 

My .357 travels at around 1000ft per second!:o:lol:

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9 hours ago, Muley Gil SASS # 57795 said:

 

You need to talk to your sheriff and possibly to the district attorney of your county and get a copy of the use of force policy. Generally, you have the right to use deadly force ONLY if your life or the lives of others within your immediate vicinity are in mortal danger and you must be IN FEAR OF YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS! You cannot shoot someone for theft-not your chainsaw, your ATV or your car. You cannot shoot someone for making threats UNLESS that person has the immediate means of carrying out that threat. Example:  a man is standing 100 yards away, swinging a  baseball bat, shouting "I'm going to kill you!" Don't shoot him. Now, if that person is a 19 year old, built like a line backer, is running towards you swinging that bat and is about 10 yards away and you happen to be 60 years old and on disability, then you are justified.

 

Know the laws NOW before you act.

Well, the local agency’s use of force policy really has no bearing on a citizen’s actions. In some states officers may use force on fleeing felons under some circumstances. But a citizen wouldn’t be justified. It’s the state statutes on use of deadly force that are paramount. 

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in this case since he was shot first the victim was totally justified per state law.  I can't help but think that if the officer had gotten there even 30 minutes sooner a lot could have been avoided.  the bullet missed the artery in his leg by an inch, the dr said.  after hearing his account I am changing my mind and thinking an AR15 pistol might come in handy in a scenario where the guy comes home to find someone shooting his ducks and trying to shoot me

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9 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

I opted to carry the kimber 357 for a while now

How do you like that Kimber? They're pricey but they look pretty cool. How does it shoot?

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I found it used but unused, paid less. It does really well.  Its stout with 357 loads but still manageable.  Real accurate and having actual rear sights instead of the rear ramp really helps.  An old man owned it before me needed something more manageable,  I'm told.  Also fits the pocket fairly well.  A hair bigger than a Smith air light 38

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Muley Gil. Your advice while well meant could get someone into serious trouble. You live in Virginia according to your profile and in Virginia your take on Deadly Force may be correct.  That does not make it legal and lawful in every state in the USA. .  This event that Trigger Mike is talking about in Georgia. Every state has their own laws about use of force. You CAN NOT make blanket statements such as you did that are LEGAL and CORRECT.   Many states allow cities and counties to make their own laws about use of deadly force.  

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16 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

How do you like that Kimber? They're pricey but they look pretty cool. How does it shoot?

I opted for the 3" barrel K6s. Kinda hurts with even moderate .357s. Works though. 

20180520_132230.jpg

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I will add about the kimber that I'm trying to find a good way to carry it as the tuckable inside the pants holster keeps moving around and makes my pants fall down by the end of an active day. 

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I grew up in a rural SE Ohio county that had one car on the road after dark.

The Sheriff's office did the best they could, and generally did not get the credit they deserved.

I was raised with the mindset that we were on our own.

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