Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 California ban on hunting with lead... Dangit! And I wanted to with my flintlock this year. Aw, poop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: California ban on hunting with lead... Dangit! And I wanted to with my flintlock this year. Aw, poop. Not to mention that awful Black Powder and Sulphur in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I know it’s heresy, but you could try an all copper large caliber pistol bullet in a sabot, couldn’t you? Better than not going at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 So if you can't use lead-core hunting ammunition, what do they expect you to use? Is this just another "we don't care if no substitute is available, we're going to ban it anyway" CA law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said: So if you can't use lead-core hunting ammunition, what do they expect you to use? Is this just another "we don't care if no substitute is available, we're going to ban it anyway" CA law? Solid copper bullets are legitimate game getters now. If you can afford it, if your rifle likes the bullet weight, shape, etc. Lots of alternatives to lead shot too. If your shotgun can use it, if you can afford it, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I'm gonna be nice, bite my tongue, and not speak ill of Kalifornia. Not an easy thing. God bless Texas. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just load a SABOT in that ML. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1250132182/barnes-spit-fire-t-ez-muzzleloading-bullets-50-caliber-sabot-with-45-caliber-polymer-tip-flat-base OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 They make Bismuth for shotguns, can they make a bullet from Bismuth for Game hunting? Just sayin' Big Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I'm sure they could, but since bismuth costs in the neighborhood of $150.00 a pound, I don't think anyone would want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Hardpan, Check this out. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/mobile/ITX-50-cal-487-non-toxic-roundball-12-balls/productinfo/TXRB50/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Hmm.... Good stuff here! First off, sabots are an excellent idea but won't work here, for a couple of reasons: First, it's .62 caliber (.615), or roughly the same size as a 20 ga lead ball. No one makes sabots in that size that I'm aware of, but I s'pose I could cobble something together - like mebbe 20 ga slug wads. Second, and more of an issue, patches and sabots won't work 'cuz it ain't a muzzle-loader. It's a Ferguson replica; essentially a 1776 period breech-loading flintlock: However! Big Jake and Pat may have the answer! The balls Pat's outfit sells are kinda pricey - $12 for ten balls. Do-able, though... except their .62 caliber balls are actually .601 - perfect if patching, but again, it's a breech-loader. But, in noodling about after reading the responses, I came across an outfit selling bismuth for $47 for a five lb chunk... that would cast roughly 115 balls, if my arithmetic is close. 20 ga lead = 20 balls/lb; pure bismuth is .864 the density of lead. But, pure bismuth is too brittle, so alloyed with about 12% tin (relatively inexpensive) for malleability this could be bumped to around 130 balls for a total cost of mebbe sixty bucks. Py Yiminy... I think this just might work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlow4697 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Use a bow and arrow with string attached so not to loose your arrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Alpo said: I'm sure they could, but since bismuth costs in the neighborhood of $150.00 a pound, I don't think anyone would want to. You kiddin? Holy carp. Thought lead shot was high. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: California ban on hunting with lead... Dangit! And I wanted to with my flintlock this year. Aw, poop. If you want to come to Texas I can hook you up. Might even join you. Been wanting to kill something with my .50 cal Hawken. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said: You kiddin? Holy carp. Thought lead shot was high. JHC So says here. https://bismuth-tristanrhee.weebly.com/uses-cost-and-facts.html >Cost Pure Bismuth costs 39$ per 100 grams. That averages out to 39 cents per gram.< Since a kilogram (1000 grams) is 2.2 pounds, then 500 grams is 1.1. At $39 per hundred grams, that's actually closer to $200 a pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said: I'm gonna be nice, bite my tongue, and not speak ill of Kalifornia. Not an easy thing. God bless Texas. JHC I never speak I’ll of California. I have friends and relatives there. But I will heap curses and loud invective upon the idiotic state government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 55 minutes ago, Alpo said: https://bismuth-tristanrhee.weebly.com/uses-cost-and-facts.html Pure Bismuth costs 39$ per 100 grams. That averages out to 39 cents per gram.< Since a kilogram (1000 grams) is 2.2 pounds, then 500 grams is 1.1. At $39 per hundred grams, that's actually closer to $200 a pound. Fortunately, that appears to not be the case. Click on the link; $47 for a five lb chunk (or chunks): http://www.zipmetals.com/product.asp?itemid=226&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz-nz2dX24gIViMVkCh2JmQbnEAQYASABEgJLgvD_BwE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tale Todd Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said: So if you can't use lead-core hunting ammunition, what do they expect you to use? Is this just another "we don't care if no substitute is available, we're going to ban it anyway" CA law? Yes, it is. I have a theory that because California is so wonderful geographically, the gods decided to make it so horrific politically as a way to bring order to the universe. If California had the politics of Texas or Tinnessee, then we’d be an unstoppable force for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 An article I read a couple days ago, I think from CRPA (California Rifle & Pistol Association) said a portion of the latest CA attack on the 2nd is that not only do you have to suffer a background check Every Time you purchase ammo, but they require a Real ID (whatever that is, I hear CA drivers licenses do not yet qualify) and all purchases have to be face to face. Also supposedly there is a provision that prohibits you from bringing in ANY ammunition Legally purchased out of state!. One rumor I have not been able to verify is they want to create or have created a list of registered guns and will put you on a "watch list" if you attempt to purchase ammo in a caliber you are not registered as having, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Clay Mosby said: An article I read a couple days ago, I think from CRPA (California Rifle & Pistol Association) said a portion of the latest CA attack on the 2nd is that not only do you have to suffer a background check Every Time you purchase ammo, but they require a Real ID (whatever that is, I hear CA drivers licenses do not yet qualify) and all purchases have to be face to face. Also supposedly there is a provision that prohibits you from bringing in ANY ammunition Legally purchased out of state!. One rumor I have not been able to verify is they want to create or have created a list of registered guns and will put you on a "watch list" if you attempt to purchase ammo in a caliber you are not registered as having, This is from one of the largest ammo sellers in this state........ https://www.laxammooc.com/california-ammo-laws-for-2019/ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: This is from one of the largest ammo sellers in this state........ https://www.laxammooc.com/california-ammo-laws-for-2019/ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Could you use a plastic 20ga shot cup as a patch? Would leave a little more fowling. Kinda like wat happes if you us plastic wads with BP in your shotshells. Nice part is that it is easy to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 16 hours ago, Tall Tale Todd said: Yes, it is. I have a theory that because California is so wonderful geographically, the gods decided to make it so horrific politically as a way to bring order to the universe. If California had the politics of Texas or Tennessee, then we’d be an unstoppable force for good. Triple "T," I'm gonna be quoting you on this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I am pretty sure some politicians were having a party looked around the table at their off-spring and said "We have to do something..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 California just needs to ban all firearms, gas-powered vehicles, outdoor grills, hunting, fishing, and anything else that involves manly fun and just be done with it. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: I am pretty sure some politicians were having a party looked around the table at their off-spring and said "We have to do something..." Oh, LORDY that's funny!! "Look at our kids! They're all *bleeped* up! It must be the lead in the environment! Ban Bullets! Ban fishing sinkers! Ban watering lawns! It's Trumps fault!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 It is interesting that a well research study that I can no longer find discovered that the lead paint used on old building roofs was responsible for more Condor deaths than lead bullets. IIRC of all the dead condors autopsied only a couple of them actually swallowed a lead bullet. All the others received their lead poisoning via other contaminates. But given the tree huggers rabid anti-hunting mindset lead hunting ammo was singled out as the source of lead and all others were ingnored.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: This is from one of the largest ammo sellers in this state........ https://www.laxammooc.com/california-ammo-laws-for-2019/ OLG Thanks OLG, and yeah, my blood is boiling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: It is interesting that a well research study that I can no longer find discovered that the lead paint used on old building roofs was responsible for more Condor deaths than lead bullets. IIRC of all the dead condors autopsied only a couple of them actually swallowed a lead bullet. All the others received their lead poisoning via other contaminates. But given the tree huggers rabid anti-hunting mindset lead hunting ammo was singled out as the source of lead and all others were ingnored.. Yes, if you read facts and not hearsay you will find, like you did, that there are other factors involved. One Condor that was autopsied a few years ago when the DFG and University systems were looking for their hard evidence regarding lead from bullets and shot, had a “strip” of pliable metal in its gullet. Apparently they cut cut the metal with a scalpel but since it wasn’t a “bullet or shot” the metal was tossed and they moved on looking for other evidence as to why the dead Condor had high levels of lead on its blood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just cast the balls out of Bismuth. Its not as good as lead, but will work. The Ca DFG has me listed as a California Legal Ammunition MFG. (I no longer do it). You can buy a chunk off of ebay. It's just no big deal. If you want to cheat a little, mix in a little lead to hold it together better. Finally, the DFG has absolutly no way to test your loads to see if the bullets are lead. If you say the bullets are Bismuth, the Game Warden can't prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: This is from one of the largest ammo sellers in this state........ https://www.laxammooc.com/california-ammo-laws-for-2019/ OLG Wow what a set of rules No wonder there is so much confusion. Here in Colorado you go to a store, take your selection from a shelf to a cashier, give them money and go somewhere and shoot. If you are under 21 you cannot buy handgun ammo, under 18 no rifle ammo cuz that is what the feds say. Soooooo how do we fix the situation in California? What can non- California residents do to help? Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said: Wow what a set of rules No wonder there is so much confusion. Here in Colorado you go to a store, take your selection from a shelf to a cashier, give them money and go somewhere and shoot. If you are under 21 you cannot buy handgun ammo, under 18 no rifle ammo cuz that is what the feds say. Soooooo how do we fix the situation in California? What can non- California residents do to help? Regards Gateway Kid That's the way the law was for us. As for folks help'n from other states. Don't come here, and spend any of your $$$. Go to states run by adults..... Tourist trade here is falling big time. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: That's the way the law was for us. As for folks help'n from other states. Don't come here, and spend any of your $$$. Go to states run by adults..... Tourist trade here is falling big time. OLG So sad my bil lived on alameda island years ago and loved the bay and trips down big sur when we would visit. Such a beautiful place, such a bunch of ??? running it. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yesterday, at work, I was talking with my boss and some of the guys that report to me. I mentioned this lead bullet ban for hunting and they all looked at me like I was nuts. They hadn't heard about this being fully implemented. Typical California Bureaucrats (DOJ, DFG, et al). They allow the media to do their promotion but do no follow up. My boss hunts and was planning on hunting deer with a muzzle loader this year as well. I showed him the website that I posted about with the non-lead balls. He asked me if I was hunting this year. I told him that I will not hunt or fish in California or Oregon. The DFG does not need my money to continue with their idiocy. Neither has received my money in 4 years....Well, except for 3 one day fishing passes so I could take my Grandson fishing. I have boycotted two of the things I love, fishing and hunting, so that my money does not promote the Bureaucracy of Ignorance and Stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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