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Charlie Harley, #14153

When to stop watching, listening, or attending?

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There’s been a lot of discussion in the Saloon about the kneeling protests in the NFL, political opinions of musicians and actors, and even a complaint about a woman soccer player on the current US national team. These discussions generally include comments that somebody no longer watches the NFL, listens to certain musicians, watches certain actors, or they cheer against Team USA in the World Cup. 

 

Without this discussion turning ugly, please help me understand this mindset. 

 

For me, there’s nobody in this world I agree with 100%, but I can find something in common with almost everybody, and something to actually like about most of them. And I choose to focus on the common ground  between me and others. 

 

I think Bono is kind of loopy, but U2 is the soundtrack of my college years. 

 

Colin Kaepernick chose an unproductive way to protest, and the NFL bungled the PR campaign, but I’ll still watch a game occasionally. 

 

Gwyneth Paltro is in LaLa Land, but Shakespeare in Love is an amazing movie. 

 

And I happen to agree with Ted Nugent’s politics, but really don’t care for his music. 

 

I guess I just haven’t come across an incident, person, or company that made me so mad that I felt I couldn’t interact with on the things we did have in common. 

 

So what has led others to place their boundaries of “no more”?

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I often marvel at how people pick and choose the things they think are bad or good without regard to context.  Take the Constitution and the Amendments to as well as the Bill of Rights.  In my simple mind these are clearly worded documents in the style of the 18th century.  The way we word things in the 21st century is some what different, take gay for instance, but the essence is the same.  As a citizen of this fair land you have the right to express yourself regardless of how misguided you may be.  You as an individual must take the time and expend the effort to find the truth.  Your favorite newspaper or tv show isn't required by the Constitution or Amendments to even remotely tell the truth.  Unfortunately, as a citizen you do have the right to be foolish and or ignorant.  So these flag burning, kneeling ignorant citizens must be endured by those that choose to be informed and dig for facts rather than accept the foolish hysteria of a few.  Freedom requires effort and we have become a more effortless society willing to embrace the foolish, the ignorant, the criminals and those that would destroy our system of government.  So it is written "Democracy will flourish until the citizens learn that they can vote themselves money".        

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1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

please help me understand this mindset. 

Here's my take.

 

Rosie O'Donnell is funny. I've enjoyed watching her in a few movies.

 

Then she got up on her show and said that she did not care what the Constitution said - if they took everyone that owned a gun and threw them in prison there would be no crime.

 

She declared herself my enemy. I do not give my enemies money.

 

Levis made decent jeans, but they started Pax, an organization dedicated to world peace. The way to get world peace, so they said, was to get rid of guns.

 

They declared themselves my enemy. I don't give my enemies money.

 

So that's it. Some person or organization does something that shows that they are my enemy, and I will no longer deal with them. NFL. Kmart. Jimmy Dean sausage. Doesn't matter who. They are my enemies, and I don't give money to my enemies.

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My list is long...........Robert DeNiro is at the top!! Stallone is another one, about as anti-gun a hypocrite as you can get! Rosie Odonnell is up there too. Actually most of Hollywierd but those 3 top my list!

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I believe if you name a famous person, an organization, or a business, I can find something I disagree with them on, perhaps vehemently. Being of a somewhat libertarian bent, I accept the notion that their rights to believe and act as they do goes right up to the point they start impinging on mine. It is at that point that I start asking myself if I have other options. Levis jeans are a great example. I just bought a couple of pairs of jeans prior to our State Match, because I have lost weight and my cowboy pants were simply too loose. I found some Levis at a reasonable price, however, because of their anti-gun stance, and the money they give, I kept looking until I found others. Dick's Sporting Goods is another example. When I needed to pick up some items so I could start sparring when I got back into the martial arts, despite the fact that we had a Dick's in town and I had to drive past another, I went to a store that sold firearms (Dunham's), to buy my things.

 

In the past ten years, I've watched little in the way of professional sports, so kneeling in protest and all that has little effect on me. I just find the state of professional football sad. Homogenous play, massive athletes who are a danger to themselves and others, and more keep me disinterested. Basketball is not game it was either, with players traveling so much they should get rewards points, charging seldom called, and more. It seems baseball has come back to being the purest of them, now that the steroid use seems to have gone by. Perhaps hockey, I don't know. If a game of football were on and I had nothing else to do and did decide to watch, the kneeling issue wouldn't keep me from watching.

 

If REM, Dixie Chicks, or some other band comes on the radio that is outspoken on matters with which I strongly disagree with them, I won't change the station necessarily. At least, not for that reason. I'm not apt to buy their music when there are other options available though.

 

I missed the Women's World Cup thing, what happened there?

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Simple.  I personally find actions such as the kneeling thing to be insulting.  Sort of on a par with making an obscene gesture when passing my church.  

 

They have a right to do so; I have an equal right to not patronize those who insult me and my values.   -_-

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There is no "correct" answer.  It's a decision of individuality.  Base the decision on your own conscience, morals, patriotism, core belief.  If what you  Hear rings a absolute Bull Shit, it probably is.  Go with your own values.  Mine don't count one whit.

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I quit watching the NFL before Kapernick started kneeling. It was a waste of time and I find lots of other things to occupy my mind and body.

So called celebrities are not too smart, when they express their opinions they alienate half of their potential audience. When they continue to push their agenda they lose viewers and sponsors. I don't buy much of the crap advertised on television anyhow. 

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What Alpo & others said.  I choose not to patronize/support with money those entities who subvert my beliefs.

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I agree. I choose to not support any of those folks who oppose the things that I support. There are certainly some talented actors, singers and athletes that I simply will refuse to watch or listen to. If they loose prominence, then they also loose influence, and that helps to whittle down the opposition.

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Aren't we lucky to live in a free society where we can spend our money and time on what we want!??

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5 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Aren't we lucky to live in a free society where we can spend our money and time on what we want!??

I do consider us fortunate. I also appreciate the polite and clear responses, none of which became personal attacks. 

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11 hours ago, DocWard said:

I missed the Women's World Cup thing, what happened there?

Megan Rapinoe, starting forward for the team, announced she would stand during the anthem (which USSF has required) but not sing it. This is in supposed support of Kapernick. 

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16 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Megan Rapinoe, starting forward for the team, announced she would stand during the anthem (which USSF has required) but not sing it. This is in supposed support of Kapernick. 

There's always one %^$#@*&&

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In my humble opinion most companies, sports teams, businesses or whatever have policies or practices in place that I don’t support, understand or agree with. Amazon is one of them but I really do like ordering stuff with the click of a button and having it delivered the next day to my doorstep. I don’t agree with most of what comes out of Hollywood or Disney but I do know pards and friends and family that work for both that share my views so I’m still going to watch their movies, if I’m interested, and take my grandkids to their amusement parks. There used to be a pro football player that lived down the street from me who is very pro-gun, a hunter and pro military and police and his team got caught up in the kneeling fiasco and he was one of the ones who stood proudly while the anthem was played as did most every other member of his team and in support of people like him and others like him I still watch the NFL. I don’t much watch the NBA anymore, I used to be a big fan back when it was a real game, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dr. J., Kevin McHale, Magic Johnson, etc.. now days I find it unwatchable, for the most part. 

 

Penzey’s spices answered my wifes email about the the CEO anti Trump comments with a statement that they didn’t want business from Trump supporters so that was certainly an easy decision to make, stupid on their part. One thing I’ve ran into quite a bit out here lately is employees of restaurants and businesses that can’t or refuse to speak English and I refuse to do business with them a second time.  

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1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Megan Rapinoe, starting forward for the team, announced she would stand during the anthem (which USSF has required) but not sing it. This is in supposed support of Kapernick. 

 

Ah. So, she's standing while it is performed. Do we know if she has a singing voice worth hearing if she did sing it?

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16 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dr. J., Kevin McHale, Magic Johnson, etc..

 

Those were the days! I was a Lakers fan during the heyday of the rivalry between the Lakers and Celtics, and I still think those were some of the best series ever played. I have to admit I also really liked the Sixers with Dr. J and Bobby Jones as well. I even had one of the Bobby Jones "Secretary of Defense" posters at one time.

 

Then there was "The Move." I remember seeing it on TV, and EVERYONE talking about it at school the next school day. If you hadn't seen it, you were lost.
 

 

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8 minutes ago, DocWard said:

 

Those were the days! I was a Lakers fan during the heyday of the rivalry between the Lakers and Celtics, and I still think those were some of the best series ever played. I have to admit I also really liked the Sixers with Dr. J and Bobby Jones as well. I even had one of the Bobby Jones "Secretary of Defense" posters at one time.

 

Then there was "The Move." I remember seeing it on TV, and EVERYONE talking about it at school the next school day. If you hadn't seen it, you were lost.
 

 

You said it, Doc. Those Laker/Celtic series were great basketball. Dr. J was one of my favorites to watch too. 

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1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Megan Rapinoe, starting forward for the team, announced she would stand during the anthem (which USSF has required) but not sing it. This is in supposed support of Kapernick. 

When did they change the rules - AGAIN??

 

When I was taught - patriotic respect?? - you stood at attention during the National Anthem.

 

And you saluted the flag.

 

If there was no flag visible during the playing of the National Anthem, you did not place your hand over your heart. You salute the flag - not the song.

 

And at no time was I ever told that singing it was required.

 

That big stink, back in 08, with the four candidates standing there. Three with their hands over their hearts, and one just kind of slouched with his hands in his pockets.

 

OH MY GAAWWWDDD. HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS HAND OVER HIS HEART DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. HE'S NOT A REAL AMERICAN.

 

And the other three all had their hands over their hearts. They - all four - had their backs to the flag, so I don't know what the hell they were saluting, but they all have their hands over their heart so they were obviously true blue patriotic Americans.

 

He should have been standing at attention. And all four of them should have been turned around - facing the flag.

 

So tell me. When did singing the National Anthem become a requirement?

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I vote with my wallet in many cases, but I also let the folks know that will be losing my money or attention why they are losing it.

 

When the kneeling started in the NFL I boycotted. Not that I watch NFL games but my wife does. She loves the Steelers and I used to buy her lots of NFL sanctioned Steelers paraphernalia. Not any more. She also requested that I do not buy her NFL stuff. I emailed the NFL and told them why. I got nothing back, which I expected.

 

I do not follow sports but go out of my way to make sure that any team or sport that pulls in politics gets nothing from me. I don't care what the politics are. I feel the same about television, cable channels, video services, etc. Any and all entertainment. Unless the show or program is about politics I want no parts of it when they promote their politics.

 

In today's society it has become okay for people to interject politics into everything. I reserve the right to deflect that and do so a lot. I am a conservative but I do not want to hear someone's conservative views when it comes to my entertainment choices either. I have a choir in my head. I don't need someone preaching to that choir or the one I am physically or virtually part of on a daily basis. I do not need the brain washing that comes with politics regardless of which side it's coming from BUT I am especially resistant to ideas and ideals coming from the left side of the spectrum.

 

I get sick of "The Sky is Falling" mentality regardless of which side of the fence it's coming from.

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I think the problem is our celebrity obsessed culture. So a soccer player announces she won't sing. Why is that news? Why do people care? Because the media puts it out there as if it's important. And people respond thru social media with outrage or support and the media reports that. Then we have the talking heads on TV twittering about it ad nauseam. The celebrity then thinks anything they have to say is of cosmic importance. And the cycle repeats itself.

 

Celebrities thrive on attention and the public loves giving it to them. Wish there was a way to ignore them so they'd go away.

 

 

 

 

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When the kneeling thing started, I boycotted all NFL games but last year, after Nascar racing was done, I watched a few games......including the game that New Orleans got robbed out of a Super Bowl berth. Nascar and the MLB have not shown any of the anti-gun, anti-American views that many of the other so called sports have and I'm a fan of both.

 

Most major companies are ultimately owned by huge conglomerates. Many times, you really don't know who owns what....that makes it hard to avoid supporting the "huge conglomerates". I'll wager to say that if you wanted to avoid companies whose viewpoint differs from your own, you'll have to grow your own food, make your own clothes, vehicles, fuel, etc, etc.

 

While I won't go to the movies to see some anti-gun, anti-American liberal pos make their millions using prop guns/killing people by the dozens but I have no problem watching the same movie on Netflix or the like.

 

I watch Fox News but my girlfriend likes  ABC.....we watch a little of both. If they start in on something I strongly disagree with, I'll leave the room and go to my computer and the SASS Forums.

 

There are many companies that I refuse to support like Levi Strauss, Dicks, Southland  Corp (7/11), Frito Lay and others for various reasons. Doesn't mean that I child my girlfriend for liking Lays chips.

 

I just can't see building a wall around you to keep the world out. When you do this.....you'll never know who your enemies are or what they are up to and that's the only way to combat those you disagree with.

 

 

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I left an organization, the type and name of which shall remain unnamed, because in its publication it basically stated that on multiple levels people like me were just lower than low.  Basically it called me a "Deplorable" 30 years before a certain unnamed presidential candidate did.  Why should I give money to an organization that thinks about me that way?

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10 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Most major companies are ultimately owned by huge conglomerates. Many times, you really don't know who owns what....that makes it hard to avoid supporting the "huge conglomerates". I'll wager to say that if you wanted to avoid companies whose viewpoint differs from your own, you'll have to grow your own food, make your own clothes, vehicles, fuel, etc, etc.

 

You're right.  Sometimes you don't really have much of a choice in the matter, if you don't have a reasonable alternative.  But I try to do what I can.  Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream has never passed my lips knowingly and it never will knowingly.  

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Intolerance takes many forms.

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4 hours ago, Alpo said:

When did they change the rules - AGAIN??

 

When I was taught - patriotic respect?? - you stood at attention during the National Anthem.

 

And you saluted the flag.

 

If there was no flag visible during the playing of the National Anthem, you did not place your hand over your heart. You salute the flag - not the song.

 

And at no time was I ever told that singing it was required.

 

That big stink, back in 08, with the four candidates standing there. Three with their hands over their hearts, and one just kind of slouched with his hands in his pockets.

 

OH MY GAAWWWDDD. HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS HAND OVER HIS HEART DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. HE'S NOT A REAL AMERICAN.

 

And the other three all had their hands over their hearts. They - all four - had their backs to the flag, so I don't know what the hell they were saluting, but they all have their hands over their heart so they were obviously true blue patriotic Americans.

 

He should have been standing at attention. And all four of them should have been turned around - facing the flag.

 

So tell me. When did singing the National Anthem become a requirement?

It ISN'T a requirement, never was,  but it's just the fact that the rest of the team sang it and she didn't because of Kapernick that tees me off!

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