Army's new Sig 320 9mm

[Irish Pat]

I just saw on Fox news that the Army awarded a contract to "Sig" for $580 million for new official pistol. it was announced also at the SHOT show. The are going to the Sig 320 9mm.

[evil dogooder]

It's a very good pistol I'm not surprised

[Paladin Gun For Hire]

Wow, that's big

[J-BAR #18287]

Does that mean a lot of used Berettas will be going on sale?

Edited January 20, 2017 by J-BAR #18287

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

Nice pistol.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Excellent choice in the Sig.

OLG

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

I was hoping for the FNX-45, thought that would be a great replacement in .45. I have it and love the way it handle the recoilk and its accuracy along with having a hammer. I guess now I know why Sig came up with a "copy" of the 250, could see the difference between the 2 pistols but there must be.

[Blackey Cole]

Never cared for the beretta myself bought one back in the 80s sold it as I was able to shoot as well as my other pistols

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Ugh.... Well, I gotta get me another 9mm to round out my collection of US Military pistols.

Assuming I'll be able to buy it in Massachusetts.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Does that mean a lot of used Berettas will be going on sale?

 

Not unless we get a new law to allow it. See, this is why I thought that the law that authorized the sale of 1911 .45s via the CMP should have said, "Any surplus pistols regardless of caliber or action type." While we're at it, let's let just the law authorize it without needing the Secretary of the Army's permission and not limit the total to 10000 a year.

 

(I hope someone suggests this to President Trump!)

[WymoreWrangler SASS 46187L]

Just my thoughts, but Beretta left a blue State to move to red State and created jobs, and wasn't forced out of business by a very anti-gun State Government, now the contract is awarded to a good company with a good product, but in a blue State that didn't vote with the rest of the country....

[Pat Riot]

I think it's a shame that the award didn't go to an American company but if an American company counldn't pass muster then they need to get with it if they want contracts like this, I changed my mind. See below, if it hasn't been deleted.

Unfortunately it will be quite a while before they have another opportunity like this again.

Regardless of that, my main concern is that our Soldiers get a good reliable gun that will serve them well.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Pat Riot, SASS #13748

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I own two P320's

 

9mm and .357 SIG.

 

They are great pistols. Mine have been 100% reliable and consistently accurate.

 

I like those SIG so much, I also got me a new P220 Elite in 10mm. Ain't had time to shoot it yet but I expect it to be a hoss.

 

 

..........Widder

[Michigan Slim]

Hey Widder! I want to see a video of you shooting that 10mm at night!

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

I was hoping for the FNX-45, thought that would be a great replacement in .45. I have it and love the way it handle the recoilk and its accuracy along with having a hammer. I guess now I know why Sig came up with a "copy" of the 250, could see the difference between the 2 pistols but there must be.

 

It comes down to training time and the number of rounds required to maintain proficiency. A .45 just requires more trigger time for initial qualification and to maintain proficiency.

 

Probably need to throw in compatibility with our allies.

[kolakowski kid]

Another 9mm....not impressed. It won't do anything the Beretta can't do. If they wanted a plastic 9mm that goes bang they could have bought all the Glocks they wanted for less than the "trial " cost us, and what is the point to the modular design when changing it to another caliber is the same price as buying a while new unit.

Edited January 21, 2017 by kolakowski kid

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Hey Widder! I want to see a video of you shooting that 10mm at night!

 

I'll be sure to make up some 'special' fireballs for you and do some night shooting. Probably this spring.

 

Side note: Spent the day with Curly Bill Kelly putting the final touches on a Marlin 1894 Cowboy converted to the .45 ACP

Its set up to run .45 ACP with anything from a 160 grain lead slug up to the 230 round ball.

 

If I can tweak the ejections of empties a little better, its gonna be a super fine little rifle.

 

 

..........Widder

[Del Rio Pete]

We want our troops to have the very best.

However, aren't there any American companies that have safe reliable guns?

I am not sure if the stories are true, but didn't the US military have caps made in China or some other country?

Also, it bothers me to see American flags, the Statue of Liberty, etc made in China that are sold at government owned museums, etc.

I wonder where the Clinton and Trump political caps and trinkets were made.

 

(Also posted this on the other thread about this)

[Pat Riot]

I must admit, I am impressed. I don't want one but the adaptability of this pistol is impressive...I don't have much use for one.

 

Check out the Sig P320: https://www.sigsauer.com/edu/meet-the-p320/

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Does that mean a lot of used Berettas will be going on sale?

If it was up to me, I'd give you ALL of them in the inventory to get rid of them the fastest.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Another 9mm....not impressed. It won't do anything the Beretta can't do.

 

The only thing the Beretta can do is break and malfunction more than it works.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I still don't know why they didn't go with the Smith M&P, great guns in all different calibers, made in the USA by a historic company!

[Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118]

Sig is now in New Hampshire, large presence here in the US. Most likely the pistols will be manufactured by US labor, in the US, Make America Great Again!

 

TB

[John Henry Quick]

It was a sad day for me when they took away my rattlely old 1911 and issued me an M9. As Col. Cooper used to say, the double action pistol is the perfect solution to a non-existent problem. The M9 never felt right in my hand and while I did OK in single-action mode, that first shot was always a throw-away so I could then get down to the business of properly aiming at the target. ANY of the striker-fired guns they could have chosen from would be an improvement.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

I am confused by all of this.

 

My understanding is the MHS program is looking to replace the entire handgun system, which includes the gun, ammo, holster, and some other parts. Due to the poor reception of the 9mm NATO cartridge in combat zones like Iraq and Afghanistan, the program will be an open-caliber competition to evaluate larger rounds like the .40 S&W and .45 ACP or more powerful rounds like the .357 SIG or FN 5.7×28mm.

 

Obviously selection of just the SIG does not meet all of the requirements of program.

 

In addition the Marines say they plan on keeping the M-9 until they reach the end of their life cycle sometime in the 2020's.

 

On the surface this seems to be a waste of money as it does not meet all of the goals of the MHS program. Lawsuits by Beretta & Smith & Wesson seem likely because of this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Handgun_System

[Seldom Seen #16162]

If it was up to me, I'd give you ALL of them in the inventory to get rid of them the fastest.

 

Send them to me.

 

I think the Beretta 92 platform is a great firearm. it has 35+ years of combat use, use by law enforcement agencies world wide and by civilians to prove it.

 

Lack of proper maintenance and abuse by poorly trained soldiers does not make it a poor handgun. Actually it is a testament to it's design that it performs well after such treatment.

 

Contact me by PM to arrange for me to take those 92's and M9's off of your hands.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Seldom Seen #16162

[Pat Riot]

The MHS program is for the Army and Air Force only.

 

Soap Box Mounted:

I have no experience with the Beretta M9's / M92's. When I was in the Navy we had 1911's. While I used to shoot, own, fix, modify, gun smith (my own) 1911's I can understand why the military went to a different platfom. I never understood why the Beretta was selected nor did I understand why the 9mm was selected except for it being a NATO round and we have a bunch of office jockey types running the military and have been for a long time. 9mm expandable ammo is a good man stopper. 9mm FMJ isn't, but then again these same types of people gave us the M16 and the "poodle shooter" round 5.56 NATO.

 

The Geneva Convention laid out the rules for battle / wars many years ago. When was the last time we fought an enemy that followed the Geneva Convention? I'd say that was 1945. In my opinion if these so-called military leaders had any cajones they pull their heads out of their PC brain lockers and give our fighting men something that works, lasts and kills. Not maims, not meets an outdated set of rules, not lines the pockets of dirtbags, and doesn't get our men and women killed because it is inadequate.

 

It is my opinion that if a soldier, sailor, airman or Marine can't handle a round or a gun that cannot at least fire a decent man-stopping round then they shouldn't be allowed to be in a position to be a detriment to those in action that can.

 

The military should stop this nonsense and start using rounds and firearms designed to take the enemy out, not wound and not follow some outdated agreement.

The weaponry should not be tied to international ties of any sort and that includes corporations and if our native companies cannot provide what is needed because some office jockeys and logistical rear echelon on pansies ideas on what is needed then those people need to go and go fast. The people that actually fight and use these weapons should be the ones that decide and I would bet if they were they wouldn't be selecting "poodle shooters" or "pop guns".

 

This modular "lego set" mentality is utter BS. If a soldier drops his weapon another soldier should be able to pick it up and use it, not hae to modify to meet his needs before it is usable.

 

I have said enough.

 

Dismounting soap box.

 

Oh, and when I said earlier that the P320 is impressive, it is. If you want a gun you can play with and customize but I gave up Lego sets a long time ago and I don't fight in wars or battles. If by some weird chance that I ever did I sure as heck would use the P320...until I could toss it and grab a real fighting gun that shoots a real fighting round, but by military standards I am an old man and as Badger said in another thread, "No one listens to an old man"...or something like that.

 

Okay, my blood pressure is enhanced. Time to go get some things done...

[John Henry Quick]

The M9's long service does not grant it status of any kind. The SEALS and other up-close-and-personal organizations have been trying with some limited success to get away from the M9 since the 90's and the Army has tried to getaway from it before, only to have the funding yanked away for other wartime expenses. Marine Expeditionary Unit Special Operations Capable (MEUSOC) units are switching to the Glock - it's not about the 9mm cartridge; it's about the gun firing it.

 

The Marine Corps as a whole is not jumping on the current bandwagon because of deep funding issues and will wait and see how the new handgun works out for the Army. That does not imply any love for the Beretta - I've been with the Marine Corps since 1975 (20 years active duty and a contractor ever since) and I can count the number of people I've seen make positive comments about the M9 on one hand.

 

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/breaking-the-armys-new-handgun-is-a-sig/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20170120_FridayDigest_105&utm_campaign=/blog/breaking-the-armys-new-handgun-is-a-sig/

Edited January 21, 2017 by JohnHenryQuick

[Marauder SASS #13056]

As you may know, when the Beretta was selected as the M9, it was between the Beretta and the Sig. I think the Sig was a little better pistol with great ergonomics, but they both met the requirements. The Beretta was a lot cheaper, so Beretta won out.

 

But many folks always preferred the Sig, so I'm not surprised they won this time out. I wonder if Sig gave a better price break this time.

 

As to caliber, no "normal" pistol round is a good stopper. And especially with FMJ bullets! So I agree with Pat Riot about bullets.

 

The 45 is actually only a little better than the 9mm in stopping power either way. And the 9mm does give more shots, so for the normal shoulder, it probably evens out. For special ops, I would also lean to the 45 due to better training, physical conditioning, etc. But a pistol is still a weapon of last resort.

[Del Rio Pete]

We should let the soldiers on the front line decide what gun and caliber they want.

Or, make the guys at the top who make the decisions go on the front line to see how it really works.

 

Added comment: I am not suggesting that every soldier carry a different weapon and caliber of their choosing.

I meant that the experienced front line soldiers should be included in the decision making process.

 

If 90% of experienced front line soldiers want a .45 caliber in a Sig, then that is what should be purchased.

Decision making from the bottom up usually works better than decision making from the top down.

It is the "worker" doing the job that usually has the best idea of what is needed.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Del Rio Pete

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Most of today's soldiers do not have experience with firearms before joining the military. Thus their introduction and training with handgun is limited to what the military provides during training. As most MOS's do not require carrying a handgun so there is even less exposure and the opportunity to learn how to properly shoot a handgun.

 

Allowing soldiers to make individual selection of their handgun would be a logistical and training nightmare.

[Pat Riot]

Seldom Seen, that is true but wouldn't it make more sense to have "real" soldiers select a pistol than a bunch of military bureaucrats and politicians?

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Just conduct a survey on the SASS Forum about what handgun members will choose if in combat. You are going to get answers from the S&W Model 10 38 Special revolver, various manufacturers .357, .44 and 45 ACP, 45 Colt revolvers, all sorts of semi-autos, and handguns in .223 such as the SIG 556 and AR.

 

And then you are going to have s group that want a handgun such as a J-Frame revolver that is small enough to go everywhere with them including to the toilet.

 

I wonder how many people that criticize the M-9 have spent much time learning how about it and how to shoot it. It has a far longer production history than the 1911 and has been as much combat as the 1911.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

 

I wonder how many people that criticize the M-9 have spent much time learning how about it and how to shoot it. It has a far longer production history than the 1911 and has been as much combat as the 1911.

 

Huh?

 

I have one made in 1913. Used it at End of the Trail last year. Colt is STILL making them in one form or another.

 

The M9 is no where near over 100 years old, and even though I have one, I doubt very much if after it is itself over 100 that my theoretical grandson will wanna shoot it in a competition.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

The M9 is a fine pistol, although a little large for a 9mm.