Mountain Man Champ Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I am going to a gunshow next weekend, and need some input. There are two Winchester model 1873 rifles on the bill. These are NOT reproductions. Can you make an original Winchester as fast as say an Uberti, or any of the other reproductions that are normally shot at cowboy action shoots?? Thanks MMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 With enough money, most anything can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Yes, several CAS gunsmith's do work on the new Winchester model 73. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Yes, several CAS gunsmith's do work on the new Winchester model 73. Jared at Long Hunters worked on mine. I am happy with the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Yes, several CAS gunsmith's do work on the new Winchester model 73. Â Â Jared at Long Hunters worked on mine. I am happy with the result. Hey guys he said ORIGINAL Winchesters not NEW ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Of course everything is relevant, but Silver Sam has worked up some originals using some bodies current parts. They run fine for him, and he's no slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I have to go back to Bogus Deal ............ With enough money ........ and a Caveat. If your talking about an "original" original Winchester 73, EVERYTHING needed to turn it into a competitive CAS gun, will have to be custom made. From scratch. You'll need a really big bundle of cash. Â If your talking about new manufacture Miroku made '73s, there are several current smiths working on them and some performance parts are available. Still won't be cheap. Â If I were advising (well, I guess I am) my suggestion would be an Uberti. There are performance parts available everywhere and lots of good tuners to put them together. Â Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Champ Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 Thanks for the feedback!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 And another thing you would have to shoot black powder out of it. I know some will say it is OK to shoot light smokless out of it but I wouldn't. Metalurge was a lot different back then. Just my $.02 Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sandor, SASS #74075 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 And another thing you would have to shoot black powder out of it. I know some will say it is OK to shoot light smokless out of it but I wouldn't. Metalurge was a lot different back then. Just my $.02 Rafe I would be very happy to see MMC become a BP shooter!!! Â CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Heck I love seeing anyone shooting the Smokey stuff! Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Champ Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 I shot with you today Count. I don't know how BP shooters see anything after the first shot flies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I shot with you today Count. I don't know how BP shooters see anything after the first shot flies.. Â We don't; we use the force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Sandor, SASS #74075 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 We don't; we use the force It is pointless to resist the power of the Dark Side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Pat Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Don't buy an antique and expect it to be competitve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The metallurgy of that time, will be inferior to today's. Get the modern version...... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Â And another thing you would have to shoot black powder out of it. I know some will say it is OK to shoot light smokless out of it but I wouldn't. Metalurge was a lot different back then. Just my $.02 Â Pardon me if I disagree. Â While I agree that a large caliber 19th Century Revolver like a SAA chambered for 45 Colt or 44-40 should probably not be fired with modern Smokeless powder, rifles are a different story. It is not just the metallurgy, the chamber walls on a revolver are much thinner than the chamber wall of a rifle. It is those thin chamber walls that may rupture with an old Colt if too hot a load is fired through them. Rifle barrels are thick enough that the chamber walls are much thicker than the chamber walls in a revolver. While the lock up of an original toggle link 1873 Winchester is not as robust as the later Model 1892, even with steel well over 100 years old, as long as the mechanism is sound, and the rifle does not have too much headspace, I would not hesitate to shoot light Smokeless rounds in an original 1873 Winchester. The 38-40 Model 1873 in this photo was made in 1887. While it is true I never put Smokeless through it, I would not hesitate to put light Smokeless loads through it if I had to. As a matter of fact, when I bought it I had to clean out quite a lot of Smokeless fouling that had accumulated in it over the years. This Bisley Colt was made in 1909, nine years after the 1900 cut off date when Colt first factory warrantied the SAA for Smokeless powder. So I could shoot Smokeless through it too if I had a mind to. Â Â Â Â Â Â This Model 1873 was made in 1882. The lockup is tight, and I would not hesitate to shoot light Smokeless loads through it either. Â Â Â Â Not an 1873, but the upper Model 1892 in this photo was made in 1894. It was my main match rifle for my first couple of years in CAS, and during that time I never put anything but Smokeless ammo through it. Â Â Â Â But of course, I only shoot these antiques every once in a while in CAS. I did not buy them with the intention of being competitive. The pair of 1873s have had some light action work done, to make them a little bit easier to shoot, but I would not dream of shooting them as fast as a serious competitor does, (even if I could). I paid a bit more for each of those '73s than I would have for a brand new Uberti, so they were worth it to me. But it would take a heck of a lot of work and money to make them competitive, and there is no point with the excellent replicas available from Uberti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 It is pointless to resist the power of the Dark Side! Â Plus we have cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I am going to a gunshow next weekend, and need some input. There are two Winchester model 1873 rifles on the bill. These are NOT reproductions. Can you make an original Winchester as fast as say an Uberti, or any of the other reproductions that are normally shot at cowboy action shoots?? Thanks MMC Â I shoot two original winchesters, not much can be done with them, and if the timing is off, you might have a hard time finding somebody to work on it. I sure did. Â First thing to do is get some new mainsprings, and grind them down slowly. I haven't found anybody who makes reduced power mainsprings for originals. Â Second thing is to get some various grit emory paper and smooth/polish all the moving parts. Â This is all I did and it worked for me. Â Your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Bp would depend on the year of manufacture remeber they were produce well in to the twentieth century (1923) so smokeless was the norm for over a decade by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 If I remember correctly, a cowboy named Mountain Man Champ walked past me twice at Fall Round-up and stated that very firmly that he was now a Marlin man!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 MMC, I have owned and shot three different Win 1873s in CAS: Two were .38 WCF rifles, round barrels, one made in 1890 and one in 1891. Both had steel barrels and small parts, but had an iron receiver. Both were tuned but not short-stroked. I shot mostly APP loads but did shoot about 100 rounds of smokeless through both. Both were good for 10 rounds in about 7 seconds, fast enough to enjoy but not gonna be a winner. My third 1873 is a .32WCF made in 1891. It is steel throughout. I shoot APP or light ssmokeless loads. The smaller round allows much more steel in the barrel and chamber walls. I enjoy this gun at one match per year. It is more accurate than any of my Uberti guns. My recommendation is to find a .32 WCF made after 1890 and stock up on an extra extractor, lever springs and screw set. These seem to be the parts that will fail first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Â Plus we have cookies. and clean sinuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Â Two were .38 WCF rifles, round barrels, one made in 1890 and one in 1891. Both had steel barrels and small parts, but had an iron receiver. Both were tuned but not short-stroked. Â Â Question: How do you know the frames were iron? I know the early Model 1873 rifles had iron frames, and that at some point the material of the frames was changed to steel, but I have never seen any information about when the change was made. Â Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Champ Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 Thanks to everyone for all of the advice!! MMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Driftwood, a local gunsmith did a hardness test on major parts of all three guns. I am going off what he told me. He did a number of good jobs for me, including an original 1887 that seen a hard life and put away forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Ok I have to ask why? If your wanting a race gun for less $ you can get a long hunter full race rifle. If your getting it for the nostalgia then I would leave it as is with original parts the value would be better and you wouldn't have to gut it or alter any parts. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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