evil dogooder Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 How much movement do you like in a stage? Stand and deliver? Everything from one spot Dang near stand and deliver. Shoot-one step-shoot -one step - shoot 20' ? 30' ? More? What is the farthest you would consider appropriate? Personally i can't stand, stand and deliver. It does well to work on transitions but really isn't my cup of tea. I like movement. even with bad knees id rather move. 3 of my top 5 stages (under 15 sec) had over 30' of movement. I do understand with an aging group mobility is a big consideration Also do you like shooting from 1, 2, or 3 positions Why I'm asking is because i was asked to write a few stages for one of the clubs i shoot at. I was thinking of trying to do an even mix of lesser movement with some more longer. I would like to hear just how far our near people like thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I 'prefer' movement either A and B, or an A-B-C setup. I prefer it be 3 or 4 step movements, and if the weather is really hot/humid, less movement is better, particularly 'down range' movements because that can cause a TO and Spotters energy weary. I also like it when the shooter has the choice of shooting L-R or R-L. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Howdy I like lots of movement. Some stages are set up so that the shooter progresses from one side of the stage to the other as he shoots each gun. Some are set up so that the firing line moves forward as the shooter shoots different guns, sometimes they are set up so the rifle targets double as pistol targets and the shooter moves closer to fire his pistols. What I really like is a stage set up with one firing line, but the shooter will reverse direction at some point to reach a firing position. Max distance is dependent on the available space. In a typical shooting bay there usually is not a huge amount of lateral distance available. Moving maybe 10 or 15 feet between shooting positions is good. Even with my creaky old knees. One of my favorite stages was shooting out from the windows of a prop railroad car. We shot a different gun out of each window, sometimes we had to double back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I 'prefer' movement either A and B, or an A-B-C setup. I prefer it be 3 or 4 step movements, and if the weather is really hot/humid, less movement is better, particularly 'down range' movements because that can cause a TO and Spotters energy weary. I also like it when the shooter has the choice of shooting L-R or R-L. ..........Widder Ta Daaa!! That's exactly how we do it......this gives shooters of any category, as well as left or right handers to shoot the stage that best fits their transitions. Fun fer everyone Plus for those that like targets out farther we often provide a more distant start position or bank of rifle targets....we call it "Sharpshooter" they shoot our normal rifle targets with the pistols. Fun for everyone Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I was thinking of trying to do an even mix of lesser movement with some more longer. ED, I think you hit the nail on the head. Variety is the spice of life. I prefer movement. A lot or a little, but, a good stand and deliver stage can be fun from time to time. I would like to thank you for helping with some of the chores of putting on a match. Accept criticism graciously, if it is a legitimate beef keep it in mind the next time you write a stage. If it is just a gripe, smile and nod and take it with a grain of salt, but keep writing stages. Hope this helps, Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Range Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 as a new younger guy, I know what I think doesnt matter. BUT, I like lots of movement. I realize SASS is now a speed event where the only concern is getting 4 guns emptied as fast as possible. I think lots of movement would make the stages more fun and interesting. I know that its clearly going to be less and less movement due to the demographics of the sport. I think the lack of movement is ONE of the reasons younger shooters dont do it. It can be boring shooting, taking 3 steps and shooting, then changing guns and shooting again. As others have said on the wire lots of times this year, younger shooters are doing 3 gun and diving, crawling, moving. WHY? because its fun. Would it be so terrible if the fastest time was 38 seconds because you actually had to move? So, how to make this work for more mobile people and less mobile people? We already have age based categories. Im sure somebody can figure out how to make it work for both groups of shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollifer A. Dollar Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 During the cooler months, I try to mix in 2 stages with 3 shooting positions (2 moves required), 2 stages with 2 shooting positions & 2 stand/deliver. During the hot months, I will only have 2 stages with minimal movement & sometimes have 6 that are stand & deliver only. It works well for our range & our club. Holler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Ta Daaa!! That's exactly how we do it......this gives shooters of any category, as well as left or right handers to shoot the stage that best fits their transitions. Fun fer everyone Plus for those that like targets out farther we often provide a more distant start position or bank of rifle targets....we call it "Sharpshooter" they shoot our normal rifle targets with the pistols. Fun for everyone Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy OK, Stage SG on far left side table, stage rifle on middle table, pistols holsters and shot from far right table. Starting position- anywhere you want, hands on pistol(s), say line. Heck, you can end or start with rifle for this exercise. Upon examination, you can not see all rife target except at center and cannot see all SG targets unless far left. Sounds good to me and gives freedom to all to do as they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 During the cooler months, I try to mix in 2 stages with 3 shooting positions (2 moves required), 2 stages with 2 shooting positions & 2 stand/deliver. During the hot months, I will only have 2 stages with minimal movement & sometimes have 6 that are stand & deliver only. It works well for our range & our club. Holler There is a lot said with this answer. Some clubs have a variety of ages, which can determine the type scenarios that are good for that CLUB. And there are some clubs where age can be a tight restriction on the type scenarios the stages need to be. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Chev Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Evil - TJs not gonna like this Remember his words - "It's Cowboy Action Shooting" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 There is a lot said with this answer. Some clubs have a variety of ages, which can determine the type scenarios that are good for that CLUB. And there are some clubs where age can be a tight restriction on the type scenarios the stages need to be. ..........Widder If you only have a person or two that has very limited mobility due to health, heat, cold, then make special compensations for them so they don't have to move as often or as far. Thus, allowing the rest of the posse to enjoy the movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Well I think movement should be encouraged, but the guns are accurate enough that those that cannot move or elect not to can still hit the targets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I also am not a fan of S&D. Like a mix of stages. Some with a few steps between. Some with a few yards between. If not to hot out or to cold. Maybe a few with a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 As anyone who has attended any Eldorado annuals can attest; I like movement. 3 and 4 position stages are the norm and expected. Movement adds flavor and offers opportunities for transitions, loading on the move and varied looks on the same targets. Most shooters like movement, where stage writers create issue is with distance of movement. Movements should should be long enough to change perspective and offer enough time to draw a pistol, load a shotgun, etc. but not so long that the shooter begins to notice. Movement can be a integral part of a stage design, distance is a spice added to the stage, and like any spice, it should add flavor but go basically un noticed. When the spice is stronger than the food, its too much. I have found, four paces between positions is a good standard of distance with multi position stages, enough distance to change perspective and feel like you have moved, not so far that you feel the event has transitioned into a track meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 We usually have 3-4 positions on a stage, it's what people want. Our range has really wide and deep berms and I utilize them. Have to remember we are at 6400 feet and flatlanders get winded. Hell On Wheels has lots of movement. The oldest shooter that attends HOW (Wrangler Ron) told me he would rather run a marathon than stand in one place. I prefer to start the shooter from a non-shooting position, no possibility of jumping the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Howdy I like lots of movement. Some stages are set up so that the shooter progresses from one side of the stage to the other as he shoots each gun. Some are set up so that the firing line moves forward as the shooter shoots different guns, sometimes they are set up so the rifle targets double as pistol targets and the shooter moves closer to fire his pistols. What I really like is a stage set up with one firing line, but the shooter will reverse direction at some point to reach a firing position. Max distance is dependent on the available space. In a typical shooting bay there usually is not a huge amount of lateral distance available. Moving maybe 10 or 15 feet between shooting positions is good. Even with my creaky old knees. One of my favorite stages was shooting out from the windows of a prop railroad car. We shot a different gun out of each window, sometimes we had to double back. That's my thoughts. I especially like forward movement. At richmond, we often do forward movement on most stages because the bays are setup that way. This is not exactly the question, but I also like it when we have other stuff to do. At one match we had to get out of jail by using a stick to fetch a key and unlock the door to start the stage. Whether it be on or off the clock doesn't matter to me, it's all fun. We have stages that require 12+ shot gun targets with movement between every 2 knockdowns. That's quite the workout, especially if your shotgun isn't shucking well haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 Evil - TJs not gonna like this Remember his words - "It's Cowboy Action Shooting" Don't worry this isn't for granite city. Tj does a very good job of writing movement. I still love the hotel. Not many ranges have a stage 80' wide. I love running it but the best time I've ever had on it when using the full width was 16.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I prefer to start the shooter from a non-shooting position, no possibility of jumping the clock. That's a really cool idea. Definitely going to use it. The last shoot i was at used a cool trick too. Shotgun and rifle were staged on the table. Start stage with hands on shotgun but fire rifle first. It wasn't something id seen before and it was a refreshing change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 as a new younger guy, I know what I think doesnt matter. BUT, I like lots of movement. I realize SASS is now a speed event where the only concern is getting 4 guns emptied as fast as possible. I think lots of movement would make the stages more fun and interesting. I know that its clearly going to be less and less movement due to the demographics of the sport. I think the lack of movement is ONE of the reasons younger shooters dont do it. It can be boring shooting, taking 3 steps and shooting, then changing guns and shooting again. As others have said on the wire lots of times this year, younger shooters are doing 3 gun and diving, crawling, moving. WHY? because its fun. Would it be so terrible if the fastest time was 38 seconds because you actually had to move? So, how to make this work for more mobile people and less mobile people? We already have age based categories. Im sure somebody can figure out how to make it work for both groups of shooters. As a younger shooter myself i agree with you on the movement. If you look back at how stages were written long ago they sound like a blast. Unfortunately that is in the past. Most of the shooters in my area wouldn't be up for them. A down side of an aging demographic. And a big problem. The very thing that will attract new younger shooters or at least the ones I've talked to. is something that would alienate the current shooters. Aka track meets or agility contests. I don't want to write something that singles out anyone to fail or at least struggle more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Howdy, One size won't fit all ranges. Ranges with high berms allow down range movement while those with common firing lines only move laterally. A good mix of movement and stand - deliver stages permit inclusion of all shooters regardless of talent, age or physical limitations. While I can endure shooting year round summer really wears me out but my good pard Widder thrives in the summer and is a shrinking violet in the winter. Hot months stages usually have less movement and colder months have fewer shooters. Hasta Luego, Keystone PS Just don't bring up target size and distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I think of the question a different way. How much Action does one want in Cowboy Action Shooting ?? If a Shooter can shoot a "stand and deliver" stage in 30 seconds, how much time do you want devoted to Action (movement) ? 5 seconds, 10 seconds ?? The amount of Action (movement) becomes ever more important the faster one shoots - becomes a higher percentage of the total stage time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I am totally against stage movement!!! Every time the stage moves, I lose my footing! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I was thinking of trying to do an even mix of lesser movement with some more longer. There you go, that's what I like. Take every single thing you mentioned in your original post, put it all into one match and I'm a happy shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I am totally against stage movement!!! Every time the stage moves, I lose my footing! :D Bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha!!! You bucking for my job as SASS Wire Comedian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I think of the question a different way. How much Action does one want in Cowboy Action Shooting ?? If a Shooter can shoot a "stand and deliver" stage in 30 seconds, how much time do you want devoted to Action (movement) ? 5 seconds, 10 seconds ?? The amount of Action (movement) becomes ever more important the faster one shoots - becomes a higher percentage of the total stage time. Speaking of shooting when are you planning on resuming competitions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Kidd Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I think Driftwood Johnson summed it up as well as can be said !! JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major BS Walker Regulator Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I like movement when I write stages. Don't like 15 yd. dashes, usually no more than 3 or 4 steps. I will usually have 1 stand and deliver stage per match to keep Chester happy. After all, he has a limp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major BS Walker Regulator Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 How come stage writers under 50, and maybe in your case 40, like long runs to each position. Because they are usually still fast and agile. SASS consists of mainly older shooters so having lots of movement with long runs between locations penalizes older shooters the same as all stages must be engaged from left to right penalizes left handers and BP shooters. Just a thought if you ever want to be asked to write a second match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 How come stage writers under 50, and maybe in your case 40, like long runs to each position. Because they are usually still fast and agile. SASS consists of mainly older shooters so having lots of movement with long runs between locations penalizes older shooters the same as all stages must be engaged from left to right penalizes left handers and BP shooters. Just a thought if you ever want to be asked to write a second match. I write a lot of stages with lots of movement. Most have options of right or left movement, along with starting at right, left, or center of the shooting bay. Although, I'm only 57, guess I'm lucky I can still move rather quickly. There are some 70+ year olds that I have trouble keeping up with, not many youngsters. We had few complaints regarding our state championship, Hell On Wheels, last year. One complaint was about our two stand and deliver scenarios, they did not like them. When hosting a match one must cater to those paying. If we are catering to older shooters just how are going to keep the younger ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Our stages are set inline on one open range - no berms separate them. So that eliminates moving down range. We made a decision to have all stages set up with no climbing or steps. So we can only move sideways. One stage has three firing positions, another four, another five and one is like an open bar 10' wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I am only in my late 40s, but with back issues and arthritis my agility is somewhat limited, especially when humid or cold. That being said, I like to challenge myself even if it hurts my times. I like variety in my stages. If all are long runs then I really pay for it the next day, but I also don't care for 6 stages of stand and deliver. If I was emperor for a day, and could design the perfect match for me, it would be a couple of stages with plenty of movement (or a variety of distances), followed by a stand and deliver or short movement to let me recover some, then repeat the same pattern of movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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