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Guvmint wants new guns


Rye Miles #13621

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Posted

I'd go with the 1911A1. LOL

Me too!

Posted

I'd suggest an X-Box control pad for the grips. Seems to be what most 19 year olds already have extensive training to shoot...... :lol::lol:

 

Good luck, and make sure you hit what you are shooting at. GJ

Posted

I'd get them a pricing gun. On what the military pays the soldiers now, thay can get a part time job at Walmart. :wacko:

Posted

1911 A1, has stood the test of time: Of course they will probably approve some johnny come lately that is no better than the Beretta that they now realize was a mistake.

 

Blackfoot

Posted

1911 A1, has stood the test of time: Of course they will probably approve some johnny come lately that is no better than the Beretta that they now realize was a mistake.

 

Blackfoot

 

 

The M9 is a hunk of junk - we hated it when we were made to trade in our 1911's and they still hate it today. However, the Glock and M&P pistols are truly examples of modern equals better. My Glock has over 5000 rounds through it without a single failure to feed, fire or eject. How many 1911 owners can say that? How many thousands of hours every year to 1911 owners spent bending extractors, adjusting feed lips, polishing feed ramps and barrel hoods? My Glock simply works no matter what I feed it and for every 1911-owner-turned-Glock owner that can say that, there's an M&P owner that can say the same thing. Time marches on...

 

Fixed 1991 to 1911... :-)

Posted

I would like to see the Sig P226. Prefered by many military special ops teams as well as law enforcement and it has withstood the test of time.

Posted

We preferred the p220 when I was in. P226 works too, but I always preferred the bigger round. ABG though, anything but glock.

Posted

Didn't the Marines just buy a whole buncha new fangled modern pistols? I forget what they called it, but it is basically, a fancy M1911.

 

Seems like that would be to go.

 

A relatively small number were purchased for MEUSOC operations, but the average Marine rating a handgun still carries the M9.

Posted

 

 

The M9 is a hunk of junk - we hated it when we were made to trade in our 1911's and they still hate it today. However, the Glock and M&P pistols are truly examples of modern equals better. My Glock has over 5000 rounds through it without a single failure to feed, fire or eject. How many 1911 owners can say that? How many thousands of hours every year to 1911 owners spent bending extractors, adjusting feed lips, polishing feed ramps and barrel hoods? My Glock simply works no matter what I feed it and for every 1911-owner-turned-Glock owner that can say that, there's an M&P owner that can say the same thing. Time marches on...

 

Fixed 1991 to 1911... :-)

Can't help but agree with you about the M9 pistol, never did like it and it never felt 'natural' when in use.

 

Having said that, I have never seen a stock 1911 fail for the reasons you cite, and I've owned several and

competed with several, sometimes as many as 25K rounds in a year through a gun that has NO mods, and

only regular cleaning after each use. Many of my fellow shooters probably can cite similar experiences, and

just as many with over modified race horses can attest to many breakdowns . . . Sometimes we make it 'better'

than we should . . .

 

The basic 1911 design is still quite battle ready, and it's service life in combat conditions is comparable to

most other firearms, and just as good as them. My current Colt series 80 Enhanced has sight and trigger

improvements, but otherwise has no tightening or modifying of components, and has never malf'd in the last

15 years, some 9-10K rounds of practice and training shooting. Neither has my BHP or my Kahr, but that's

a different discussion!

 

The short coming the 1911 has is that the great white father has visions of a Dial-a-gun, something that can

have everything from racing tires, mud flaps, curb finders and depth gauges attached, along with lights and

bells and whistles. This gun don't do that very well.

 

Rail gun versions abound, and there are probably sound tactical reasons for it, but in any event that is the

reason that I think the 1911 is probably not going to re-enter into service. They want a modular do everything

sorta okay gun. Damn shame really, but hopefully it will at least have a big bullet coming out of it!

 

But I could be wrong . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

Posted

Can't help but agree with you about the M9 pistol, never did like it and it never felt 'natural' when in use.

 

Having said that, I have never seen a stock 1911 fail for the reasons you cite, and I've owned several and

competed with several, sometimes as many as 25K rounds in a year through a gun that has NO mods, and

only regular cleaning after each use. Many of my fellow shooters probably can cite similar experiences, and

just as many with over modified race horses can attest to many breakdowns . . . Sometimes we make it 'better'

than we should . . .

 

The basic 1911 design is still quite battle ready, and it's service life in combat conditions is comparable to

most other firearms, and just as good as them. My current Colt series 80 Enhanced has sight and trigger

improvements, but otherwise has no tightening or modifying of components, and has never malf'd in the last

15 years, some 9-10K rounds of practice and training shooting. Neither has my BHP or my Kahr, but that's

a different discussion!

 

The short coming the 1911 has is that the great white father has visions of a Dial-a-gun, something that can

have everything from racing tires, mud flaps, curb finders and depth gauges attached, along with lights and

bells and whistles. This gun don't do that very well.

 

Rail gun versions abound, and there are probably sound tactical reasons for it, but in any event that is the

reason that I think the 1911 is probably not going to re-enter into service. They want a modular do everything

sorta okay gun. Damn shame really, but hopefully it will at least have a big bullet coming out of it!

 

But I could be wrong . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

 

You are luckier than anyone I have ever known. The 1911 is famous for needing the feed ramp and barrel hood polished in order to feed semi-wadcutters and the 1911 made the term "stovepipe jam" famous. Also, Wilson made a mint on selling magazines that feed properly (as well as holding 8 rounds) and there's a ton of instructions out there on how to make your magazine feed properly and drop freely. Then again, there's the "break-in period" that you'll never hear in relation to a Glock or M&P. Since 1979 I've owned (in order) a nickle Combat Commander, a Gold Cup, a Randall stainless steel government model (that was a big deal then), and a Springfield Armory. I've shot IPSC and USPSA on and off since the late 80's and feeding failures and stovepipes are a common sight. I only wish that I had been as lucky as you with even just one of the one's I've owned.

Posted

I'm a big fan of the .45 ACP and the 1911 platform but I think the FN 5.7 would make a much better choice than any 9mm or the .45 ACP. The pistol and round has been extensively tested by both NATO and the US Military.

 

I know that some (maybe all) will disagree with my assessment but there it is.

 

CS

Posted

A gunsmith friend put it best. A milspec 1911 using military ball ammo is as reliable as a Glock.

Posted

I have never had problems with my 1911's but of course I don't jack them up to the level of some. I haven't experienced the problems that some seem to have with "highly tuned" pistols that are running ammo that is way out of the realm of their design. I guess my philosophy is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Notwithstanding, I do like a nice trigger and smooth operating pistol. I just haven't felt the need for one with everything pushed to the max. (yes, I do also have a Glock, haven't shot it in a long time)

 

Your mileage may vary,

Blackfoot

Posted

I doubt the issue will be polymer vs metal...the MP and Glock are striker fired, the 1911 and M9 hammer. I would that would be the bigger issue. I want a glock, have an MP9 and XDM9 and prefer the XDm over the M&P although there is very little practical differences.

Posted

I doubt the issue will be polymer vs metal...the MP and Glock are striker fired, the 1911 and M9 hammer. I would that would be the bigger issue. I want a glock, have an MP9 and XDM9 and prefer the XDm over the M&P although there is very little practical differences.

 

Some of my friends in USPSA have told me that after trying the different grip angle of the XD, they switched over to it, though functionally there's precious little difference between an XD and a Glock. I was always happy with my Glock 34, but after I started into CAS I sold it to pay for more cowboy toys. :) I kept my G26 for carry and my youngest carries an XD. Whatever makes you happy is what you ought to carry...

Posted

This is old news. When S&W introduced the M&P .45 with a thumb safety about three years ago, the intended target was the US military.

I think that it is interesting that only the US military sees pistols as offensive and important weapons. Most militaries use pistols only for self-defense and as a badge of service. I read years ago that the Nazi military saw the caliber carried in opposite proportion to the rank of the officer: generals carried .32s and soldiers carried 9mms.

The real question, before which pistol, is which cartridge? 9x19mm in the NATO round. .45 ACP is the proven warhorse. With so many recruits coming into service with little or no shooting experience, I tend to think that the military will stay with the smaller round though they might try to increase the effectiveness.

Posted

Howdy,

How about this. We supply 9mm ammo and .45acp ammo in equal ammounts.

We tell the troops to buy whatever sidearm they like that shoots either round.

For one thing the whining ought to stop. (It takes a lot to stop whine)

For another the taxpayer doesn't have to pay for some new whiz bang sidearm.

And the military gets to hand out the current guns, 1911 or that other thing,

until they all wear out.

Just a thought.

Best

CR

Posted

 

You are luckier than anyone I have ever known. The 1911 is famous for needing the feed ramp and barrel hood polished in order to feed semi-wadcutters and the 1911 made the term "stovepipe jam" famous. Also, Wilson made a mint on selling magazines that feed properly (as well as holding 8 rounds) and there's a ton of instructions out there on how to make your magazine feed properly and drop freely. Then again, there's the "break-in period" that you'll never hear in relation to a Glock or M&P. Since 1979 I've owned (in order) a nickle Combat Commander, a Gold Cup, a Randall stainless steel government model (that was a big deal then), and a Springfield Armory. I've shot IPSC and USPSA on and off since the late 80's and feeding failures and stovepipes are a common sight. I only wish that I had been as lucky as you with even just one of the one's I've owned.

The military does not shoot down loaded wadcutters. Military ball ammo will feed reliably until you get too tired to pull the trigger.

 

CR

Posted

The military does not shoot down loaded wadcutters. Military ball ammo will feed reliably until you get too tired to pull the trigger.

 

CR

 

 

That's true MOST of the time. It's equally true that the old stovepipe jam far predates the H&G 68 mold. It's also true that Colt and USGI mags were famous for not dropping freely and needed to be polished on the sides to get them to drop properly. We've come a long way since the old government model, but truly reliable .45's are a relatively new thing - for many, many years it took a gunsmith to make them so. I've owned several and I do love the 1911, but those guys that think that technology hasn't improved in the last 103 years (or 109 if you want to count the 1905 prototype) are living with their heads in the sand.

Posted

Book 19, chapter 11, verse 45

In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was
good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple
John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911,
and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the
Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements
upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have
malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to
harm.

And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst
forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe
of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide
releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the
tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind
being clouded by lust.

Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911
and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo,
the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911
so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning
of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the
land fell upon it.

And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination
unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost
need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great
numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by
man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come
upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do
no wrong.

Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the
underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst
bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they
looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they
were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of
them.

And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these
plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were
unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did
function.

And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst
both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them
appear safe.

But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did
proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the
trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great
intelligence which man had long since forsaken.

Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over
these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which
they themselves had committed.

And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord
of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to
descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution
upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the
land.

Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man
was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his
messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings
of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their
proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin
to work as the prophet had intended.

Posted

The beauty of the Glock and M&P is the ability to teach the basic Armour course in about 8 hours. You can actually teach the full disassembly of a Glock to most anyone in about 10 minutes. All of the parts are drop in and easily changed out with a punch type tool. No fitting or filing required. I think the simplicity, economic and reliability of the new polymer guns would be a vast improvement over that clunky M9.

Posted

Book 19, chapter 11, verse 45

 

In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was

good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple

John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911,

and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the

Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements

upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have

malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to

harm.

And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst

forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe

of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide

releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the

tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind

being clouded by lust.

Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911

and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo,

the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911

so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning

of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the

land fell upon it.

And lo, they did install adjustable sights, which are an abomination

unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost

need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great

numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by

man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come

upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do

no wrong.

Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the

underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst

bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they

looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they

were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of

them.

And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these

plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were

unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did

function.

And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst

both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them

appear safe.

But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did

proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the

trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great

intelligence which man had long since forsaken.

Yet man did not repent of his evil ways, but continued to gloat over

these new pistols blaming Satan for the negligent discharges which

they themselves had committed.

And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord

of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to

descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution

upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the

land.

Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man

was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his

messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings

of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their

proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin

to work as the prophet had intended.

 

 

Yea, verily, I see the light, thou Master of Guns! I see the light!

 

:lol:

Posted

Somehow, I knew that this would become a 1911 thread.

 

I shoot a couple of handgun events a month. People can shoot most anything that they want. Spending their own money they predominately choose Glocks in 9mm or 40 S&W. Only rarely do I see a 1911, maybe once every couple of months.

 

So, those who have voted with their pocket book choose polymer.

 

For the record, I shoot an S&W 627 in the Dinosaur class. Almost never see a revolver either.

Posted

Somehow, I knew that this would become a 1911 thread.

 

I shoot a couple of handgun events a month. People can shoot most anything that they want. Spending their own money they predominately choose Glocks in 9mm or 40 S&W. Only rarely do I see a 1911, maybe once every couple of months.

 

So, those who have voted with their pocket book choose polymer.

 

For the record, I shoot an S&W 627 in the Dinosaur class. Almost never see a revolver either.

 

Actually for most of us here the correct box to check is all of the above as far as what we own. While my first firearm of any kind was a 45 and I still have one. It makes vastly more sense for me to choose 9MM than the US.mil.

Simply put while I most frequently carry a 9MM Shield because it is very small and light and unlike the .mil folks I can load high performance ammo. The trouble with 9MM hardball is that it tends to ice pick straight through the bad guy. If I was stuck with ball ammo like the .mil folks or the few good people left in NJ I would never carry anything less than a 45.

 

edit: fyngers type out of synch with brain

Posted

Me 4.

 

I have 3 1911 pistols, all Colts. They are reliable and accurate. They've shot reloads with Unique, Bullseye, IMR 7625, IMR 4756, 800-X, and VV N320.

 

Pistol #1 is a Series 70 that I've had since 1978. I recall that it has jammed only once in all of the years I've been shooting it. The jam was with 230 grain FMJ commercial ammo. It has never jammed with any of my reloads, which are usually 200 grain LSWCs.

 

Pistol #2 is a Series 70 SS that I've had for only a few years. It does not like mid to near max-range loads of IMR 7625. It much prefers near max loads of VV N320. It has never jammed with N320 powder but has with 7625. It is fine with other powders. It is a head scratcher but I haven't worried about it. Pistols #1 and #3 have no problem with reloads made from IMR 7625.

 

Pistol #3 is a Commander XSE SS that is used for personal carry. No jams. I keep it loaded with Hydra-Shok 230 grain JHP ammo.

 

I love my Colts and have never been tempted to stray.

Posted

<--- Prefers 10mm 1911s, the caliber JMB would have gone with if available then. A Dan Wesson Razorback will be mine at some point.

Posted

Although the little FN is well positioned I think the competition will be between Smith & Glock. I think the M&P with its thumb safety will have a leg up with the DoD procurement team. The military always worries about ADs. Glocks seem dangerous in the hands of people who don't practice. Frankly I think that argument is a crock because when a soldier needs a pistol he doesn't need to be distrated by a thumb safety. The real question is caliber. 9 or40 S&W is the choice,

Posted

 

Oh, you ARE a glutton for punishment! :D

 

I've had two 10mm 1911s, a 1076, and a 610. When I get done fixing all of my vehicles, I'm getting a 10mm upper for my EAA Witness and either the Razorback or the ParaOrdnance 10mm Hunter.

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