Blacksheep Ron Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As a professional gunsmith I do not disconnect or block safties on any firearms. I have come across firearms out my way that are being used in shots with the safty totally disconnected or blocked interally. On doubles I shorten the actuating rod that does not automaticly turn on the safety but allows it to be actuated by hand. I would appreciate any any answers to this. I e-mailed SASS a couple of weeks ago and have had no answer. Blacksheep Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What is the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We can give you opinions. SASS can give you answers. But the rules are silent about whether safeties can be removed, disabled, etc. The game does not require you to ever use a mechanical safety device. Lots of target guns are made without safeties. Lots of SASS shooters remove or disable safeties so that they get smoother operation and never have a chance of a safety sliding on when they stage or pick up a gun. YOU can do as you like. Several shooters will probably not want to use your services if you reenable a safety they paid to have disabled. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What is the question? +1 What is it you are wanting to know. If is up to the shooter if he wants it on there or not. As a 73 without it. Is like a 66. So do you want them to not allow a 66? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Maybe this and the photo is a way of advertising his services ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As a professional gunsmith I do not disconnect or block safties on any firearms. I have come across firearms out my way that are being used in shots with the safty totally disconnected or blocked interally. On doubles I shorten the actuating rod that does not automaticly turn on the safety but allows it to be actuated by hand. I would appreciate any any answers to this. I e-mailed SASS a couple of weeks ago and have had no answer. Blacksheep Ron I don't disconnect "safties" either cause none of my guns have 'em! They do have "safeties" though! Sorry I couldn't resist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I made mine manual safeties on the shotguns that I, or my kids, might hunt with. The short barreled Stoeger I clipped out completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksheep Ron Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 I thank all those who have given me answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 No transfer bars in any of my Vaqueros, Automatic safety disabled on all my SKBs and no lever safety in my 1873. After a little over 40,000 rounds downrange no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I thank all those who have given me answers. There wasn't a question posed in the OP how can there be an answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 "A safety is a mechanical devise designed to REDUCE the chance of an accidental discharge". A shooter should never rely on the safety to prevent an AD... Early 66 repros did/do have lever safeties.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 There wasn't a question posed in the OP how can there be an answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Page 3 of the Shooters Handbook contains a SASS statement regarding safeties: "SASS does not recommend or suggest the modification of any firearm or the removal of any safety device." The modification of the safety of a double barrel shotgun as stated in the original poster is common practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I looked for a question mark in the OP... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 In there between the lines (and the arguments). Dang snow is getting deep already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We don't walk around with loaded firearms except at the firing line, unlike hunters, and sometimes having a working safety can cause confusion, just one more thing to think about. I taught my kids "YOU are the safety, not that little button". I suppose you could be opening yourself up to a lawsuit if someone shot themselves and their lawyer asserted it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't removed their safety, so that is something you are going to have to decide if it is worth it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As a smith. If you don't want to take them out. Don't. Other than that. You are not shooting there guns. They are. Guess it is up to them. Sure don't know why you would want to contact the SASS office about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As a professional gunsmith, no one would expect or should require you to disable or tamper with a firearms safety mechanism. If you are "in the business", liability concerns would just about prohibit it unless you have lots of insurance... If I were you, I would refuse to work on any such firearm........... Unless, like the factories, you return it to the original condition.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Chains Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The correct question with regard to a firearm in relation to whether a safety is usable, or worthwhile, or should be removed is: What do you intend to do with this firearm? If it is a carry gun, I would never remove or disconnect a safety (if it is broken then fix it), but a gun that is a competition gun the next question becomes important: Is there some reason to remove the safety, if not leave it in place. SASS runs on a basic cold range process because of the numbers of people and the varying skill levels that makes a heap of sense, with a cold range a manual safety becomes largely redundant and can interfere with the proper and smooth function of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think Rusty has provided a good common sense answer. None of my SASS firearms are intended to be used for anything other than competition and practice, not carried, nor hunted with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As a professional gunsmith I do not disconnect or block safties on any firearms. I have come across firearms out my way that are being used in shots with the safty totally disconnected or blocked interally. On doubles I shorten the actuating rod that does not automaticly turn on the safety but allows it to be actuated by hand. I would appreciate any any answers to this. I e-mailed SASS a couple of weeks ago and have had no answer. Blacksheep Ron Ron Shotguns for cowboy shooting are carried to the line empty and loaded only when they are in immediate use. When they are not in use they are staged open and empty. In addition, cowboy action shooting is a timed event, so every move that is unnecessary costs time on the clock. Many believe that the action of operating a safety each time a shotgun is opened, loaded and closed is an unnecessary loss of time. Therefore you will find that the safeties have been modified to either manual operation or disabled completely. You will also find that this is common practice on many of the rifles we use in this game. Addition mechanisms that the manufacturers have installed to enhance safety are also looked at as just another piece of metal that is in the way of smooth operation. The great majority of these guns are never used for anything except cowboy action shooting. They are generally not used for hunting or for everyday carry. In the venue of cowboy action shooting the safeties are never used anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What it tells me is. He has not been doing cowboys guns long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 If you disable or remove any safety device I hope you have good liability insurance. Accidents do happen and that pard that you injured or killed will either sue you or his estate will, and your butt will be dangling out there in the wind. All for just a little more speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I would think if a gunsmith removes a safety he would become liable if the firearm should discharge accidentally because of no safety. Whereas the owner of the firearm can do it and assume the liability himself. If the firearms will ever be used for anything besides SASS or if someone besides me will use them, I would think twice about removing a safety as it could become a very big problem if an accident occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I have a question on what exactly is viewed as a legitimate safety. On the latest mod to Marlin 1894's, there is the cross bolt safety. This device is designed as a true safety, in that the rifle will not allow the hammer to touch the firing pin unless that safety is disengaged. Then we have the lever/trigger actuated device. I'm not sure if this is called a safety or not. Its purpose is to help ensure that the trigger can not be pulled until the lever is fully up and the action closed. Then we have the half-cock notch on the hammer. Is this construed as a safety? I have seen MANY 1894's with the lever/trigger actuated device either disengaged or totally removed. And I have seen a couple with the half-cock notch rounded down and smoothed to lighted the hammer. Soooo, can somebody tell me what liability a gunsmith has when he/she works on these rifles and those parts are already modified or removed? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 And yes, even the 97 has a "so called safety" similar to the 73. They are designed and there to help prevent an out of battery discharge. If they are worked as part of an "action job" in a 97,there is no noticeable difference in ease of function. ........... As someone else mentioned, the only real safety is the trigger finger and muzzle direction....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The only real safety is what's between the shooter's ears! If that isn't engaged, all the interlocks in the world won't prevent an accidental discharge, with potentially fatal results! The only "safety" I've ever temporarily disabled was on an outside hammer double shotgun that not only had a sliding trigger block on the upper tang, but rebounding hammers that held the hammers off the firing pins. The tang safety had a tendency to slide partially on under the recoil from the first shot. I removed the lock from one side and drove a small nail into the wood behind the safety mechanism to keep it in the off position. This gun, which I no longer shoot because I was beating it up too much, was just as safe with the hammers against their blocks when UNcocked, as if I also applied the tang safety. On a hammerless Baikal with an automatic tang safety, I left it alone, and simply push it off when ready to shoot. OTOH, my Vaqueros still have their transfer bars. So does my old Flat Top that has the transfer bar conversion. When I pack any of them, I still leave the hammer down on an empty chamber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 If you disable or remove any safety device I hope you have good liability insurance. Accidents do happen and that pard that you injured or killed will either sue you or his estate will, and your butt will be dangling out there in the wind. All for just a little more speed Doesn't it stand to reason if you accidentally shoot someone your going to court even if your guns have all their factory safeties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Doesn't it stand to reason if you accidentally shoot someone your going to court even if your guns have all their factory safeties. You'll also most likely end up in court, if the shooting was intentional too. When it gets to the civil action-The first thing the 'other-side' will try and do is to say you shot the 'victim' out of negligence. All part of 'deep pockets' etc. Been down that road-- OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Chains Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Widder, the problem is that the way the legal system in this country works, almost anyone can sue almost anyone for almost anything.Yes, we need tort reform to cut down on this, but if you are operating under someone's specific direction, it makes it tougher to sue you successfully. There are some extremes of stupidity that our legal system does encourage, for instance, if you modify a gun and your customer takes that gun and wants to make a really powerful round so he fills that old 45 case with Bullseye (hey, it is black) and takes it to the range, shoulders the rifle and becomes a statistic. Now he and his family are approached by an ambulance chaser and the shark for hire sues the maker of the press, the maker of the powder, the maker of the rifle and he guy that modified the rifle jointly and severally. This lets the jury determine what percent each will have to pay should he win against the group. Now you and I know that this idiot damaged himself by dropping an excessive amount of the wrong powder into a case and fired it in a gun that were both originally designed for black powder. How bad this tort problem is varies from location to location, for example a business wants to avoid being sued anywhere in California, or South Florida, Madison WI, etc. That is a big factor in why California is having businesses head out for other parts of the country. I do want to say for the record that several individuals (of the hundreds of lawyers) I have met are good and decent folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You'll also most likely end up in court, if the shooting was intentional too. When it gets to the civil action-The first thing the 'other-side' will try and do is to say you shot the 'victim' out of negligence. All part of 'deep pockets' etc. Been down that road-- OLG And when you have tampered with the safety a good attorney will take it to negligence instead of accidental and you will have eliminated the deep pocket from the equation leaving your ass out there alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Liability is the reason if you send a firearm back to a factory to fix one thing they will fix it all back to original including safeties. And many, if not all, will not even fix a thing if there is a safety removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 And when you have tampered with the safety a good attorney will take it to negligence instead of accidental and you will have eliminated the deep pocket from the equation leaving your ass out there alone There choice. Not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 There choice. Not yours. Unless I'm the victim of that negligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Unless I'm the victim of that negligence If you are that worried about it. Don't go to the shooting range. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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