Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Removing the safety sure equals a screwed with safety. I doubt it was funny to the girl who was shot or the shooter who lost everything and I'm sure your spelling is aways perfect I still do not see in your quoted article where the shooters gun had a safety removed. I am old and maybe I just missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Cut and dried, when you pick up a gun, you are responsible for what happens.Dropped, I thought it was empty, round over the berm, safety malfunctioned, whatever.....all good excuses, but, if you pick it up, you are responsible. No gun ever "went off by itself". If you are not willing to accept the responsibility, DON'T PICK IT UP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Spurs Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Mine was the result of a tampered with fire control system and the fact tht there was NO safety on the Shilen 2 oz trigger Yes that was terrible, but yours seems to be the result of getting your finger on the trigger before it was pointing at what you wanted to shoot...... Better stay out of modern vehicles that have any horsepower. I'm still trying to picture Phantom wearing a suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 This whole safety removal issue in an interesting discussion. 66s for the most part had no trigger block safety. When we modify them to make their spring a bit weaker on a 73 we are doing something unsafe. Many double barrel shotguns have been made over the years so that the safety does not come on automatically when the gun is opened and loaded, retaining the option to put the safety on manually once loaded. When we change the safety on a CAS double so that it does the exact same thing we are doing something unsafe. Many lever rifles have been made over the years with no cross bolt safety. When we disable a newer lever action gun cross bolt safety we are doing something unsafe. I have no safety on any single action pistol I own as well as other CAS guns from the factory, are they all unsafe? This whole gun safety discussion for CAS matches confuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksheep Ron Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Page 3 of the Shooters Handbook contains a SASS statement regarding safeties: "SASS does not recommend or suggest the modification of any firearm or the removal of any safety device." The modification of the safety of a double barrel shotgun as stated in the original poster is common practice. Edward, Thank you for the best straight forward answer I was needing. It is along the lines I practice when working on guns. I looked it up in the hand book and it is basic. You are an asset for SASS. Blacksheep Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Which company was it made a SxS shotgun with rebounding hammers...PLUS a crossbolt safety...PLUS an "auto" tang safety? Talk about overkill to comply with import restrictions! By the time all of the safeties had been overcome to enable the firearm to function as intended, the clock in the timer had flipped over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 There is a reason I am so adamant about safeties being left alone. Back when I as shooting small bore silhouette another shooter wanted me to try his gun. Holding the gun at waist level up and down range I single loaded a .22 round, when I closed the bolt the gun fired possibly sending the round over the 80 foot and that's right 80 foot berm. Thank goodness nothing bad happened. The trigger was stoned so fine that closing the bolt too hard would fire the gun. Fast forward to this: http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/pregnant-woman-hit-by-stray-bullet-delivers-baby/nGXR8/ He plead guilty to simple assault and will never be permitted to own a firearm again. In addition the civil suit cost the club 5 figures covered by insurance. He did not have insurance and it cost him everything for the judgment and attorney fees for both trials. Because a trigger had been tampered with. This could have been me, and yes I know I should have had the gun pointed at the ground. Lesson learned on that one Yours was the result of lack of muzzle control of 'your' rifle and someone trying for too light of a trigger. I don't see the connection to safeties there. The example you linked to was the result of who knows what, nowhere in the article do they say. You're advocating an approach based on anecdotal evidence, and the anecdotes you provide don't even fit the action you're proscribing. You might as well say that someone was once injured while driving 55 miles per hour and therefore nobody should drive 55 miles an hour. Then you mention as an afterthought that yes they shouldn't have been texting while driving. In both the cases you mentioned, yours and the link, simple compliance with the three rules of gun safety would have prevented injury. What happened to never allow your muzzle to cover anything you're not willing to shoot? You knew you were going to be placing a live round in the chamber of a gun that didn't belong to you and one whose provenance was questionable, why have the muzzle pointed over the berm? I respect your desire to protect people, but I believe you're in the wrong forum to advocate restricting peoples rights to modify their property, particularly in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I've come close to being shot twice in my 13 years of running the timer and working the posse. The first time was from a shooter using a crossdraw. His super Blackhawk (with transfer bar) hung up in the holster and he was not being mindful of the 170, the bullet struck the ground behind him about 1' from my left foot. Pretty stout .44 mag. The next time involved a poorly placed load table and ailing shooter. I was bent over retrieving brass and first heard the shot then felt the vapor trail of the bullet as it passed by my left ear. I turned around to look directly down the smoking barrel of a 73' at the load table, which somehow someway went off. That was also too close for comfort. All were lessons learned from both parties and luckily no the hard way, I'm certain the second instance would have killed me had it been a inch closer. I now position myself accordingly when I TO and survey all stage setup before advancing downrange. Real guns with real bullets boys and girls. And safeties on a gun would not have prevented either one. YOU are the safety PERIOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Several shotguns made for Trap shooting have no safety. In trap you're supposed to load and close when it is your turn, tho folks have gotten in a hurry and load and close before the next shooter has even shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 My Browning BT-99 trap gun has no safety except finger off the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - inappropriate humor Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - inappropriate humor Did y'all ever hear the one about the guy who sent his wife to Cox Brothers Mens Fine Clothing to buy a Seersucker suit for him? And, she got a little confused with the directions. Link to comment
Assassin Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Several shotguns made for Trap shooting have no safety. In trap you're supposed to load and close when it is your turn, tho folks have gotten in a hurry and load and close before the next shooter has even shot. How about those SG's with release triggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 ohhhh, dunt like those!!!!! afraid of em!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Sounds like a few people are once again blaming the gun for the carelessness or incompetence of the person holding the gun. Seems to be a common practice in this country these days. If you are going to pick up a firearm, then know and be willing to accept the responsibilities that go with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - No reason given she got a little confused with the directions. She ended up at Sears, huh? Link to comment
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 How about those SG's with release triggers? Yep. You do see those on the trap line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The trap release trigger issues surface when someone grabs one from a rack thinking it's his gun (they all look alike); big oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 As a professional gunsmith I do not disconnect or block safties on any firearms. I have come across firearms out my way that are being used in shots with the safty totally disconnected or blocked interally. On doubles I shorten the actuating rod that does not automaticly turn on the safety but allows it to be actuated by hand. I would appreciate any any answers to this. I e-mailed SASS a couple of weeks ago and have had no answer. Blacksheep Ron Looks like you have gotten a free ad for your gunsmithing business. Do not expect cowboys to flock to your door? Better look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - inappropriate humor Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - inappropriate humor Did y'all ever hear the one about the guy who sent his wife to Cox Brothers Mens Fine Clothing to buy a Seersucker suit for him? And, she got a little confused with the directions. She ended up at Sears, huh? rearrange a couple words there GJ then think with a dirty mind, you will get it Link to comment
Yusta B. Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, December 13, 2014 - No reason given Betcha $50 GJ knows exactly what was meant & he was just taking the higher road. Link to comment
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Bad mouthing Release Triggers is about as senseless as those anti-gunners in congress. They have been popular with Trap Shooters for many years and are now fast gaining favor with Skeet Shooters. The reason for them is that recoil is cumulative, and after years of hammering targets in competition, shooters start flinching when in the act of shooting clay targets. Release triggers stops the flinching, allowing the shooters to track and shoot the targets normally, Release triggers are ALWAYS activated with the shotgun pointed downrange. There is no incentive, or logical reason to "set" the release triggers until the gun is mounted and pointed at the hold point, when calling for the bird. Any possible malfunction will simply be discharged safely down range, hitting nothing but the air. Additionally, Target Guns are NEVER carried closed, and are NEVER loaded until the shooter is on the station, ready to shoot. Strictly enforced. I personally have been shooting Release Triggers in Skeet for well over 8 years. There simply is nothing unsafe about then. If they were unsafe, the NSSA, NSCA, and the ATA would outlaw then in a New York minute...Safety being paramount in all three organizations. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Removing the safety sure equals a screwed with safety. I doubt it was funny to the girl who was shot or the shooter who lost everything and I'm sure your spelling is aways perfect Wow... Why are you talking about altered triggers...when the subject is "Safeties"???? and do you have any good recommendations for where to get a well tailored Law Suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orient Express Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Here in Australia our Stoeger coachguns come with manual safeties only. No automatic safeties here. It might surprise some of you guys but we don't have any incidents of UD's at matches. No one complains either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Which company was it made a SxS shotgun with rebounding hammers...PLUS a crossbolt safety...PLUS an "auto" tang safety? Talk about overkill to comply with import restrictions! By the time all of the safeties had been overcome to enable the firearm to function as intended, the clock in the timer had flipped over. Norinco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Norinco I thought Norinco was just an importer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Norinco was/is what is now IAC. When the import BS started up a few years ago Norinco was... IIRC ...banned from shipping to the US. So, they changed the name to IAC. They've been making all type of firearms including the Chinese AK47 in semi auto only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Norinco was/is what is now IAC. When the import BS started up a few years ago Norinco was... IIRC ...banned from shipping to the US. So, they changed the name to IAC. They've been making all type of firearms including the Chinese AK47 in semi auto only. Does IAC actually manufacture the guns or do other companies in China do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I have not fund the need to remove safeties but am not familiar with new guns with lawyer designed "silly" safeties. I simply do not shoot with anyone that, IMHO, is an unsafe shooter. .Cowboy Action firearms are used in our specialized sport and we either presume that the pards are familiar with guns or are newbies that we all watch carefully. In SASS, we do not shoot side-by-side so there's no comparison to regular shooting ranges. We, the shooters, are responsible for assuring our own safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 99+ percent of CAS'ers don't eliminate safeties. They simply lighten springs to make the safety easier to disengage or eliminate the auto aspect of it. We're not idjuts... ...and most of us don't go around worrying about every possible thing that could go bad in our lives...that would be hell... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 the original post does not make sense to me in this forum at all, our guns are used for competition , they are never loaded behind the lines and when they are brought to the firing line they are in safe condition no rounds in chamber or under hammer, shotguns are empty, so what's the issue ? AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 the original post does not make sense to me in this forum at all, our guns are used for competition , they are never loaded behind the lines and when they are brought to the firing line they are in safe condition no rounds in chamber or under hammer, shotguns are empty, so what's the issue ? AO AO - it's advertising baby...Advertising! Look at all the folks that now know that he does gunsmithing, Isn't America great?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Does IAC actually manufacture the guns or do other companies in China do it? From what I gathered from Coyote Cap I think it was, he went to the IAC factory and assisted them in design changes for the last batch of 97's they built. It wasn't mentioned if they were building them or just making design mods for who was. It was intimated that IAC was building them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 AO - it's advertising baby...Advertising! Look at all the folks that now know that he does gunsmithing, Isn't America great?! Yeah but I would not use somebody that does not understand our sport / game , or do what I want to my guns ! I guess it's better than nothing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 From what I gathered from Coyote Cap I think it was, he went to the IAC factory and assisted them in design changes for the last batch of 97's they built. It wasn't mentioned if they were building them or just making design mods for who was. It was intimated that IAC was building them. I reread Coyote Caps history of 93/97 and he calls IAC the importer not the maker. IACs web site only talks about importing guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I reread Coyote Caps history of 93/97 and he calls IAC the importer not the maker. IACs web site only talks about importing guns. OK...if that's the case then I stand corrected. I just pulled my new version 97 out of the safe. It has several stampings. One is IAC Billerica MA on the side of the barrel. Bottom of the receiver forward of the loading port had S.C. China and serial number. I googled that and seems S.C. is the holding company OF Norinco. So, who knows who the hell makes it....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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