Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Being a match director, I am always interested in others opinions and their points of view. And so I read the thread regarding opting out of the match dinner with some interest. Kind of makes me curious, how far would you want to take the match ala carte idea? Side matches? I generally only shoot the main match guns speed events. Shouldn't I get a discount over the guy who shoots every side match? Provided water? I brought my own, should I have to pay the same amount as the guy who is drinking a bottle or two every stage? Evening range activities? I stayed at the local Cockroach 7, not on the range, so I missed the singalong, cookout and poker tournament - I certainly should not have had my match fees used to pay for that. Awards? I'm not going to win the big trophy - perhaps only the shooters 1st place in category should have to support the costs of the buckles. Stages? My gun broke on the seventh stage and I didn't get to shoot the last five stages, shouldn't my match fees be prorated? I guess I am funny, I have always regarded match cost as an entry fee. You pay the entry fee and then you are free to partake in (or not) the events offered. I understand my entry fees are going to be used to subsidize events and awards in which I have no interest, but at the same time, do entertain others. Just as much as I understand other shooters fees will be subsidizing the events and awards that do interest or benefit me. I am not saying that you should support shoots or events you feel are poor values. Look at the whole of the event versus the cost - If you feel an event is not worthy of the entry fee - then you should stay home. But I am saying if the experience is worthy of the cost - then support the whole while understanding that not every event may be catering to you. Disney is expensive, but if I decide that going to Disney is worth it, then I have to pay the whole entry fee - even if I know I will not be riding the Teacups or Mr. Toads Wild Ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I agree...100%! Or...I can just care about what I want...after all...it is all about ME...right???? Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Ask not what you can get from a shoot, ask what you can give to a shoot to make it enjoyable for all. You will have a much better time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Well Creeker you read it but sounds like you didn't like what you were seeing. Like I said on the other post know your customer base and give the majority what they want. You can't please everybody but if you please most your shoot should continue to prosper. I shot Gun Smoke last year and that is exactly what the MD described it as (ala carte). This was one of the best shoots I have ever been to. Just because some matches have a can't miss banquet doesn't mean everybody has to have a banquet. For more reasons than I can list some work and some don't. The problem arises when MDs don't see what's not working. I run a small business and I survive by trying to keep my customers happy. Your shoot and banquet may be top notch and need no tweeking whatsoever. But the only way you'll find out is to poll your customer base. Last year leading up to your shoot you asked why is Border Town so good. I wouldn't worry about what others do just worry about what your customers want. I think the shooting should always come first. The rest is there to complement the shoot if done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Being a match director, I am always interested in others opinions and their points of view. And so I read the thread regarding opting out of the match dinner with some interest. Kind of makes me curious, how far would you want to take the match ala carte idea? Side matches? I generally only shoot the main match guns speed events. Shouldn't I get a discount over the guy who shoots every side match? Provided water? I brought my own, should I have to pay the same amount as the guy who is drinking a bottle or two every stage? Evening range activities? I stayed at the local Cockroach 7, not on the range, so I missed the singalong, cookout and poker tournament - I certainly should not have had my match fees used to pay for that. Awards? I'm not going to win the big trophy - perhaps only the shooters 1st place in category should have to support the costs of the buckles. Stages? My gun broke on the seventh stage and I didn't get to shoot the last five stages, shouldn't my match fees be prorated? I guess I am funny, I have always regarded match cost as an entry fee. You pay the entry fee and then you are free to partake in (or not) the events offered. I understand my entry fees are going to be used to subsidize events and awards in which I have no interest, but at the same time, do entertain others. Just as much as I understand other shooters fees will be subsidizing the events and awards that do interest or benefit me. I am not saying that you should support shoots or events you feel are poor values. Look at the whole of the event versus the cost - If you feel an event is not worthy of the entry fee - then you should stay home. But I am saying if the experience is worthy of the cost - then support the whole while understanding that not every event may be catering to you. Disney is expensive, but if I decide that going to Disney is worth it, then I have to pay the whole entry fee - even if I know I will not be riding the Teacups or Mr. Toads Wild Ride. Sounds like someone that disagrees with responses to banquet/dinner post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Well...I'm sure some of the ones that have been posting on this "Topic" are going to jump right in and start putting together some of the best annual matches every experienced in the game of SASS/CAS. Looking forward to these new market driven matches coming up!! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Banquet, no banquet, included or not included ain't even on my radar when picking a match. Word of mouth from people I know very much is on my radar and is what I consider most when deciding where to go shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Don't like to be nickel and dimed. Just give me a price and lets be done with it. If I don't want to partake in something. Then that is on me. It was there for me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Banquet, no banquet, included or not included ain't even on my radar when picking a match. Word of mouth from people I know very much is on my radar and is what I consider most when deciding where to go shoot.[/quote +1 I go where the people are telling me it's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Well...I'm sure some of the ones that have been posting on this "Topic" are going to jump right in and start putting together some of the best annual matches every experienced in the game of SASS/CAS. Looking forward to these new market driven matches coming up!! Phantom[ You dont have to wait. The better MDs have been putting out great matches for years by listening to thier customers. For example me , you and many others have come on the wire and said how SASS and EOT are getting better because Misty Moonshine is listening to her customers. You run a store and I bet you care about your customers. No shame in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 I run a small business and I survive by trying to keep my customers happy. Say I don't want you to greet me when I walk in the door... Imagine, I don't need your assistance to select my goods from you... Shouldn't I get a discount because "I" personally don't have any desire for all the wonderful services you provide? Do you offer that? I know it is a silly argument, but folks do not realize when they begin "opting out" of the items they don't like - they encourage others to do the same. Eventually you will end up with matches where there are no side matches, because not enough folks were willing to participate. No awards because the folks that do not win decided they should not have to pay for them No Porta Potties, because some folks have nicer facilities in their RV or at the hotel No... Whatever item, event or service that could be opted out of - because a faction decides it is unworthy. These items do not exist in a vacuum, they are dependent upon the whole to exist. Offer the option to opt out and they will not simply deflate to size - they will become more hassle or cost than the club that puts on the event feels is necessary and they will cease to exist. And whether I use the good or service - participate in the event or receive the award - I don't want to play a game where these things go away because folks decide to "opt out" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Well...I'm sure some of the ones that have been posting on this "Topic" are going to jump right in and start putting together some of the best annual matches every experienced in the game of SASS/CAS. Looking forward to these new market driven matches coming up!! Phantom[ You dont have to wait. The better MDs have been putting out great matches for years by listening to thier customers. For example me , you and many others have come on the wire and said how SASS and EOT are getting better because Misty Moonshine is listening to her customers. You run a store and I bet you care about your customers. No shame in that. I was kinda hopin that folks like yourself...that has so many ideas...would step up to the plate. I respect even the worse MD out there for putting themselves up for criticism...trying to put on a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I respect every one that tries. But you can try to be a great baseball player or match director and it may not be in the cards for you. You always seem to assume what others have and have not done. Pm me sometime or buy me a drink at EOT and I will answer all questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I respect every one that tries. But you can try to be a great baseball player or match director and it may not be in the cards for you. You always seem to assume what others have and have not done. Pm me sometime or buy me a drink at EOT and I will answer all questions. I'm assuming nuthin...I'm not that smart to visualize alternatives. Would love to see how the math and planning works when one implements an a' la carte format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Creeker it's your match and you should run it the way you feel is best. If you don't want people to opt out then don't give them an option. I have never gone to a match or miss one because of cost. If the option is there to not pay for side matches and I won't be in town until they are over I will opt out. If the shoot is all inclusive I won't. No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 As a match director or as a shooter, I MUCH prefer all-inclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi Creeker, I prefer all-inclusive fees. I will go to the Banquet if I go to the match. However, I have no issues with a $5 clays fee for Cowboy Trap as that is the only side match that has a cost other than awards. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mike Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 After spending a good chunk of my daughters inheritance on guns, leather, clothing, reloading equipment, components, carts and more I think the cost of the local, state and regional matches are quite reasonable. It is unbelievably difficult to put on a match. This year I have signed up for side matches and dinners when they are offered as opt in but did not mind paying the inclusive fee at another state shot recently. Clubs and match directors do a great job in giving value back to the shooters as far as I see. It is true you can't please them all. At some point you need to take all the feedback you get and make some decisions and go with them. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben McCoy Rankin # 34239 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Being a match director, I am always interested in others opinions and their points of view. And so I read the thread regarding opting out of the match dinner with some interest. Kind of makes me curious, how far would you want to take the match ala carte idea? Side matches? I generally only shoot the main match guns speed events. Shouldn't I get a discount over the guy who shoots every side match? Provided water? I brought my own, should I have to pay the same amount as the guy who is drinking a bottle or two every stage? Evening range activities? I stayed at the local Cockroach 7, not on the range, so I missed the singalong, cookout and poker tournament - I certainly should not have had my match fees used to pay for that. Awards? I'm not going to win the big trophy - perhaps only the shooters 1st place in category should have to support the costs of the buckles. Stages? My gun broke on the seventh stage and I didn't get to shoot the last five stages, shouldn't my match fees be prorated? I guess I am funny, I have always regarded match cost as an entry fee. You pay the entry fee and then you are free to partake in (or not) the events offered. I understand my entry fees are going to be used to subsidize events and awards in which I have no interest, but at the same time, do entertain others. Just as much as I understand other shooters fees will be subsidizing the events and awards that do interest or benefit me. I am not saying that you should support shoots or events you feel are poor values. Look at the whole of the event versus the cost - If you feel an event is not worthy of the entry fee - then you should stay home. But I am saying if the experience is worthy of the cost - then support the whole while understanding that not every event may be catering to you. Disney is expensive, but if I decide that going to Disney is worth it, then I have to pay the whole entry fee - even if I know I will not be riding the Teacups or Mr. Toads Wild Ride. What he said!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Lets see, I travel to NC State in couple weeks and stay 3 nights at about $79 per. I really don't care about having HOT water in the shower so now the price is about $74 per. I would rather the maid leave my bed alone and not make it up every day. Not fluffing up the pillows oughta save me another $3 per I can use the same towel a couple times without having fresh towels and that should save me a good $7 per I can also bring my own toilet paper that I bought at WalMart for a few pennies and that should save me another $3 per. I'm down to about $61 per. BUT, I do enjoy the Continental Breakfast every morning so that amount can be added back into the price. The more I think about it, Its probably better for me to just pay one All Inclusive price and enjoy the stay. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Although personally I don't mind if the banquet is a separate fee (I will pay the fee to go and visit with people anyway), I like the idea of the rest of the match being all inclusive, because I will take part in more activities. Being not all that experienced, I know there is a slim chance of winning side matches, so I not sure I would pay extra, and would instead just go watch the good shooters, even if the overall cost ended up being the same. An all inclusive match pushes me to do more and learn more. Not sure if that makes any sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Faster shooters get a discount for spending less time on the range and saving on timer batteries, 45 shooters pay more for target wear and tear than 38 shooters, discount for shooting unpainted targets, Other than the banquet everything else should be a package deal. After this years WR meals I'll opt out on all banquets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I'm assuming nuthin...I'm not that smart to visualize alternatives. Would love to see how the math and planning works when one implements an a' la carte format. I have been to a lot of shoots where side matches and the banquet were ala carte . Those shoots are running fine . How they worked the math and planning was their secret but it surprises me that you and others act as though this is some kind of new idea that's going to be the end of shoots as we know them . Some shoots have banquets , some don't . Some you pay if you go or not and some you get to choose . So what . Whether I go to a shoot or not has nothing to do with those stats . Remember the guy that brought this whole question up on another post has one of the best banquets going so anybody that is worried about people opting out may want to talk with him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I prefer all inclusive. There are usually alternatives around, it's on me to go to the banquet or not, or eat the food while there. Heck, I met Assassin at a local restaurant at WR.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Being a match director, I am always interested in others opinions and their points of view. And so I read the thread regarding opting out of the match dinner with some interest. Kind of makes me curious, how far would you want to take the match ala carte idea? Side matches? I generally only shoot the main match guns speed events. Shouldn't I get a discount over the guy who shoots every side match? Provided water? I brought my own, should I have to pay the same amount as the guy who is drinking a bottle or two every stage? Evening range activities? I stayed at the local Cockroach 7, not on the range, so I missed the singalong, cookout and poker tournament - I certainly should not have had my match fees used to pay for that. Awards? I'm not going to win the big trophy - perhaps only the shooters 1st place in category should have to support the costs of the buckles. Stages? My gun broke on the seventh stage and I didn't get to shoot the last five stages, shouldn't my match fees be prorated? I guess I am funny, I have always regarded match cost as an entry fee. You pay the entry fee and then you are free to partake in (or not) the events offered. I understand my entry fees are going to be used to subsidize events and awards in which I have no interest, but at the same time, do entertain others. Just as much as I understand other shooters fees will be subsidizing the events and awards that do interest or benefit me. I am not saying that you should support shoots or events you feel are poor values. Look at the whole of the event versus the cost - If you feel an event is not worthy of the entry fee - then you should stay home. But I am saying if the experience is worthy of the cost - then support the whole while understanding that not every event may be catering to you. Disney is expensive, but if I decide that going to Disney is worth it, then I have to pay the whole entry fee - even if I know I will not be riding the Teacups or Mr. Toads Wild Ride. add my vote as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I have been to a lot of shoots where side matches and the banquet were ala carte . Those shoots are running fine . How they worked the math and planning was their secret but it surprises me that you and others act as though this is some kind of new idea that's going to be the end of shoots as we know them . Some shoots have banquets , some don't . Some you pay if you go or not and some you get to choose . So what . Whether I go to a shoot or not has nothing to do with those stats . Remember the guy that brought this whole question up on another post has one of the best banquets going so anybody that is worried about people opting out may want to talk with him . Yeah...I know about that dinner...shot the match a few times... But...what do I know...you are far more knowledgeable then I on this subject so I'll just leave the topic alone. Most Wanted...please avoid me when we cross paths as I don't want to sit around and get in a hour long pissing match with you. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Don't like to be nickel and dimed. Just give me a price and lets be done with it. If I don't want to partake in something. Then that is on me. It was there for me to. my second vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mean gun mark Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 As a match director or as a shooter, I MUCH prefer all-inclusive.and if I can vote 3 times, here ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Don't like to be nickel and dimed. Just give me a price and lets be done with it. If I don't want to partake in something. Then that is on me. It was there for me to. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Dan O'Shootem SASS # 61974 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Don't like to be nickel and dimed. Just give me a price and lets be done with it. If I don't want to partake in something. Then that is on me. It was there for me to. + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 There's a match advertized. Folks say it's fun. A. Do I want to go? B. How much is it? Fees + travel costs C. Can I afford it? If the answer to C is yes, I go. I try not to overthink things. It gives me a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 There's a match advertized. Folks say it's fun. A. Do I want to go? B. How much is it? Fees + travel costs C. Can I afford it? If the answer to C is yes, I go. I try not to overthink things. It gives me a headache. I love simple!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I know I will not be riding the Teacups or Mr. Toads Wild Ride. But Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is the best one there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 But Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is the best one there! To this...I have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 But Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is the best one there! Sure as hell isn't It's a Small, Small World............Oh, Great..........now I can hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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