If you do buy a EV , you might not want a Hyundai

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Ya think?  I'm not convinced.     

(ok, my next one is going to be red).

My next sports car will be a new Z06 vette, red of course. But first I owe Lethal Lizzie her first car then Kid Flash his. So my next car is about four years away.

[JD Lud]

So for pick up…texted me the spot it was in an hour before appointment.  Showed up and it was labeled for my name, click “I’m here” in the app and I’m like 2 min you have accepted the car, matched up phone with it as phone is primary key, and away you go.  No four hours of BS or trying to sell you other crap…remarkably simple…slightly awkward as first time but I prefer this all day long over any other purchase.

[Buckshot Bob]

24 minutes ago, JD Lud said:

So for pick up…texted me the spot it was in an hour before appointment.  Showed up and it was labeled for my name, click “I’m here” in the app and I’m like 2 min you have accepted the car, matched up phone with it as phone is primary key, and away you go.  No four hours of BS or trying to sell you other crap…remarkably simple…slightly awkward as first time but I prefer this all day long over any other purchase.

I’ve always hated the traditional car buying experience 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

My next sports car will be a new Z06 vette, red of course. But first I owe Lethal Lizzie her first car then Kid Flash his. So my next car is about four years away.

My next one is going to be either a "base" 3LT hard top convertible in or if I can swing it - the same in an E Ray.

And Museum Delivery if I can make scheduling work.

 

I love the Z06 and that 5.5 but I "think" (I admit I have not driven a 5.5 yet) it's going to be a little too high strung for a road trip / "every day" driver.

And as we both know - the 6.2 is bullet proof.

 

Im going Red Mist, carbon flash painted top and nacelles with the GT2 two tone seats in Sky Cool Grey with black seating areas (the GT3 seats are for guys skinnier than me).

Low wing and a set of grey full length stripes (probably aftermarket from Vette Stripes).  I'm not a fan of any of the factory wheels - so base wheels and then a bright polished forged wheel swap after I get it home.

 

Painted Lady wants an EV - so I probably have a Mustang Mach E extended range in my future as well.

[Rip Snorter]

Nix on EV for me ever.  But I recently had the best car buying experience in a long life at Gem City Motors in Sidney, MT.  Fast, smooth and easy, despite not having the release of Title Document for the trade in with us.  Wrote a check and left with the car, faxed them the release.  No games, no tricks, just straight up honest dealing.  Looking for a newer winter ride than my '79 Scottsdale.  Will be contacting them to keep an eye out for something 20-25 years newer and give me a call.  My Summer ride is a 2005 muscle car, great as long is there is no snow.

[Captain Bill Burt]

45 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

My next one is going to be either a "base" 3LT hard top convertible in or if I can swing it - the same in an E Ray.

And Museum Delivery if I can make scheduling work.

 

I love the Z06 and that 5.5 but I "think" (I admit I have not driven a 5.5 yet) it's going to be a little too high strung for a road trip / "every day" driver.

And as we both know - the 6.2 is bullet proof.

 

Im going Red Mist, carbon flash painted top and nacelles with the GT2 two tone seats in Sky Cool Grey with black seating areas (the GT3 seats are for guys skinnier than me).

Low wing and a set of grey full length stripes (probably aftermarket from Vette Stripes).  I'm not a fan of any of the factory wheels - so base wheels and then a bright polished forged wheel swap after I get it home.

 

Painted Lady wants an EV - so I probably have a Mustang Mach E extended range in my future as well.

That sounds nice!! I rarely drive anymore. Pretty much only Cowboy matches on Saturday, Sharyn’s SUV, or recreational in the Camaro. 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

12 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

That sounds nice!! I rarely drive anymore. Pretty much only Cowboy matches on Saturday, Sharyn’s SUV, or recreational in the Camaro. 

I absolutely LOVE to drive. 

Painted Lady was born in San Diego - so we take a lot of west coast road trips to the Pacific Ocean.

And Cowboy Shooting in Arizona is some of the best in the country; so load up the Corvette and head that way as often as I can justify it.

And northern Nevada - up to Reno and Virginia City.

All of these trip are several hundred miles each - so a good road trip car is a must.

[Subdeacon Joe]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:45 PM, JD Lud said:

Just got a Tesla….on a lease for 3 years.  Some very attractive discounts….i have never leased before but it makes some sense to try one now.  Get the tax credit for the lease and if prices collapse so be it

 

I have to say it, even though the spelling is different by one letter, I find it a bit humorous that a guy with an alias of "Lud" would embrace new technology.

 

[Pb Mark]

Tesla recalls over 120,000 cars over door risks (yahoo.com)

 

Love those Tesla EVs.

 

Yesterday recall for door risks, only 120K of them.

Last week 2 Million of them for killing people with their autopilot. 

Read about their suspensions breaking, etc

Read about the percentage of working public chargers.

 

Musk is an innovator and interesting individual, makes me want one of those stainless-steel battery powered Tesla trucks, in H.O scale to go with the miniature train track.

 

Guess if you have a service center somewhere near to fix them.... why not?

 

Insurance is not cheap, but for those that want an electronic device on wheels (don't forget those special tires due to the weight), put your money down.

 

Sounds like their new dry film battery processing will eventually get there, but for now, no clue if it is a good or defective one.... interesting read though.  

 

Cannot read about Tesla while driving my 2001 Ram though...  I deserve a government tax credit for this inconvenience.  

 

About that 8 year, 100K government battery mandate.... the EV is covered for 8 years, 100K, period.  After this, owner is on their own to replace the battery.  It may get as many batteries required during this period, or just one original battery as long as the software says the battery has 80% capacity left.  Will we see software manipulation to prevent this high expense battery warrantee work?  

 

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

25 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

Tesla recalls over 120,000 cars over door risks (yahoo.com)

 

Love those Tesla EVs.

 

Yesterday recall for door risks, only 120K of them.

Last week 2 Million of them for killing people with their autopilot. 

Read about their suspensions breaking, etc

Read about the percentage of working public chargers.

 

Musk is an innovator and interesting individual, makes me want one of those stainless-steel battery powered Tesla trucks, in H.O scale to go with the miniature train track.

 

Guess if you have a service center somewhere near to fix them.... why not?

 

Insurance is not cheap, but for those that want an electronic device on wheels (don't forget those special tires due to the weight), put your money down.

 

Sounds like their new dry film battery processing will eventually get there, but for now, no clue if it is a good or defective one.... interesting read though.  

 

Cannot read about Tesla while driving my 2001 Ram though...  I deserve a government tax credit for this inconvenience.  

 

About that 8 year, 100K government battery mandate.... the EV is covered for 8 years, 100K, period.  After this, owner is on their own to replace the battery.  It may get as many batteries required during this period, or just one original battery as long as the software says the battery has 80% capacity left.  Will we see software manipulation to prevent this high expense battery warrantee work?  

 

 

 

 

 

Right.... and no ICEv has ever been recalled for safety issues.  Ever.

[JD Lud]

Believe the latest recall is an over the air software update.  
 

I will say this after playing around in the Model 3 for a day.  What you get for the price in technology is amazing.  I mean after rebate it’s 27,500 bucks plus destination.  Heck ya that’s a lot of money, but a base model civic is around 25k.

 

I had no interest in cyber truck….but now I would.  A new friend of ours has had his reserved for years and it’s finally getting close….i actually want to see that.  Safety reports for the 3 are off the charts and the truck is supposed to be even better.  
 

I wouldn’t try one if I didn’t live in this resort community bubble here. Keeping my family gas hauler and my gas jeep.  
 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Recall, you say?
https://www.motor1.com/news/701756/ford-most-recalled-brand-america/
 

Quote

According to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) through December 20, Ford has issued 54 recalls potentially affecting 5,692,135 vehicles in 2023, the most of any automaker. This year marks the third year in a row Ford has held the top spot for recalls in the United States. 

Going strictly by vehicles affected, Ford had nearly twice as many as second-place Kia at 3 million, the bulk of which came through a single recall for leaking brake fluid leading to a fire risk. If you go by total recalls, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles USA was second to Ford with 45, affecting 2.7 million cars. BMW had 29 recalls, Mercedes-Benz had 27, and Nissan rounds out the top five for automakers at 22.

 

WOW!  Five and three-quarter MILLION Fords recalled!!!!  

 

https://www.ksby.com/ford-recalls-over-238-000-vehicles-due-to-potential-rollaway-risk

 

Photo by: AP

 

By: Alex Arger

Posted at 2:17 PM, Oct 13, 2023

 

and last updated 2:39 PM, Oct 13, 2023

Ford is recalling more than 238,000 of its mid-size SUVs due to an axle bolt issue that can cause the vehicle to roll away.

[Blackwater 53393]

My newest vehicle is 14 model years old. It’s approaching 200,000 miles!

 

My oldest vehicle is 45 model years old. It has over 350,000 miles on it.

 

The one in the middle is 27 model years old. It has nearly 400,000 miles on it.

 

All of them are gasoline powered and are likely to  be with us for another ten years or so, barring some catastrophic accident. My total expenditure on these, not counting required periodic maintenance items and fuel is less than $20,000.00 over a span of 62 total years, (more than 35 actual years) of ownership. That’s thirty five years for the oldest, nineteen years for the next oldest, and eight for the newest one!  I can do and have done all of the maintenance, most of the repairs, (I don’t do paint and I don’t have the equipment to perform some machine shop operations and a couple of these have had serious modifications done to suit my tastes and operational requirements) and I figure to keep it that way.

 

When someone starts in on me about the advantages of their newer “improved”potential substitutes, I point to theirs and mine and say, “Let’s compare ‘em again in ten or fifteen years!”

 

I took electronics in high school and learned how to repair electric motors and such over my more than fifty years in the automotive and agricultural equipment repair industry, but at over seventy years of age, I ain’t interested in learning how to apply that basic knowledge to expanding my capabilities!

 

To each their own, but don’t expect me to let myself be forced into or talked into EVs that don’t, and likely won’t in my lifetime, have the ability to meet my needs and expectations!!

 

AND!! My total outlay in purchasing those three vehicles is approximately $33,500.00!!

[Still hand Bill]

Did some digging and there is not currently a minimum warranty requirement on the federal level.  They are working on it, but currently there is not one.  Just what each mfg offers.  Even carb doesn’t have one right now.  They have one set to go into effect in 2026.  

[Subdeacon Joe]

37 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Did some digging and there is not currently a minimum warranty requirement on the federal level.  They are working on it, but currently there is not one.  Just what each mfg offers.  Even carb doesn’t have one right now.  They have one set to go into effect in 2026.  

 

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/getting-a-good-deal/how-do-ev-battery-warranties-work/1960

 

"YES, ELECTRIC CAR BATTERIES ARE WARRANTED

The federal government requires manufacturers to offer an eight-year/100,000-mile warranty on all EV batteries. California does one better, mandating a warranty of 10 years or 150,000 miles. Some companies will cover a battery only if it completely stops working, while others will replace the battery if it falls below a certain capacity, usually 70% of the original, while still under warranty."

 

https://www.greencars.com/greencars-101/ev-battery-warranties-and-exclusions

 

"EV Battery Warranties: Manufacturer Coverage

Most automakers have an 8 to 10-year or 100,000 miles warranty period on electric car batteries. This is because federal regulation in the U.S. mandates that electric car batteries be covered for a minimum of eight years."

 

I believe it's buried in EPA "regulations."

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, JD Lud said:

Believe the latest recall is an over the air software update.  
 

 

There have been a couple of recalls on the Nissan Leaf this year:

What You Should Do:
Nissan will mail an addendum with updated instructions on how to operate the defroster, free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed April 1, 2023. Owners may contact Nissan's customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's number for this recall is R22C5.

Summary:
Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2018-2023 LEAF vehicles. The Owner's Manual instructions for defroster operation are incorrect, and may result in reduced defroster performance under specific conditions. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard number 103, "Windshield Defrosting and Defogging Systems."

 

I taped the into the owners manual.

 

And:

VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL

Jul 17, 2023

Unintentional acceleration can increase the risk of a crash.

Summary:

Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2018-2023 LEAF vehicles. The vehicle may accelerate unintentionally if the driving mode is changed ("D" to "B"; e-Pedal "On"; or "ECO" mode) after disengaging the cruise control.

What should you do:

Dealers will reprogram the vehicle control module (VCM), free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed August 30, 2023. Owners may contact Nissan's customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's number for this recall is R23A6.

 

I called, made an appointment, took it in, they did what they do to update, and I was on my way.

 

So the recalls were for a typo and a computer glitch.  But we all know that no Internal Combustion Engine Vehicle has ever been recalled because of a computer issue.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Just out of curiosity, seriously. What are the resale or Trade in values of an EV that is at or near the end of its warranty?

[Ozark Huckleberry]

 

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

This may answer some on power stations source.

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

 

The whole thing:
 

Quote

 

Hey I am one of those taxpayers 

 

we are lucky that we moved to Florida, and live in an area we dont drive much so should work out just fine.  I see it as a good trial to be honest.

 

i have had a lot of people lately telling me and wife how awesome they were, we needed a car, and I like Elon strangely enough so what the heck.

 

 

His basic message: "I'm open minded enough to not automatically be against everything designed since 1939."

[Still hand Bill]

10 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

I believe it's buried in EPA "regulations."

I know that lots of people say it’s mandated, but digging in, it doesn’t appear that it is yet.  I see articles saying it’s a thing, but no one points out the actual cfr and the retained capacity seems to vary, which is something that is critical.  carb does require emissions to be warrantied, but not ev’s yet.  I did find a few people who had letters from carb stating they did not do it yet.  It’s coming in 2026.  It doesn’t matter if it’s law or not as most mfg have a decent warranty.  Gm is the worst at a 60% capacity floor.  So you can lose almost half the capacity before you get a new battery.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

My friend has a Hyundai Hybrid, it has a gas engine and a battery as you all probably know. I would consider one of those. They supposedly have a 10 year warranty on the battery and if and when it dies there's still the gas engine to keep ya rolling!

 

Electric and Hybrid Powertrain Coverage

 

 

 

10-Year / 100,000-Mile

Hybrid/EV Battery Warranty

[Buckshot Bob]

7 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

My friend has a Hyundai Hybrid, it has a gas engine and a battery as you all probably know. I would consider one of those. They supposedly have a 10 year warranty on the battery and if and when it dies there's still the gas engine to keep ya rolling!

 

Electric and Hybrid Powertrain Coverage

 

 

 

10-Year / 100,000-Mile

Hybrid/EV Battery Warranty

Not that it’s any worse than a gas motor. But for me the warranty is 100,000 . My wife’s last car had 150,000 on it at 10 years. “Which I don’t consider excessive mileage” I know people that have Toyota hybrids and love them. But we just drive cars too long for me to be comfortable with what the long term repairs will be. Heck I even like to avoid turbos if at all possible. It’s just less stuff to break .

But I agree if you’re looking for great fuel economy I think the hybrids are the way to go , without all of the downsides of a EV. I know a couple people with the Toyota Prius’s that love them. They’re cheap and they seem to last a long time for an econobox . 

[Eyesa Horg]

Got a neighbor that has one. She thinks she's so green until ya point out that most of the car is made of petroleum products including the electricity she charges it with. I could buy a year of gas just for what the charging hook up cost her. Not for me yet. But good for some to feel good.

[Buckshot Bob]

3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Got a neighbor that has one. She thinks she's so green until ya point out that most of the car is made of petroleum products including the electricity she charges it with. I could buy a year of gas just for what the charging hook up cost her. Not for me yet. But good for some to feel good.

To me the charging hook up is another one of the big pitfalls of the EV’s right now. There needs to be some sort of standardization of the plugs . It’s like having a bunch of different filler nozzle sizes for gas. I read an article where there’s been a push to force all the manufacturers to use a Tesla style plug . I guess it’s going to be a beta vs vhs argument 

[Eyesa Horg]

Kinda like trying to get all gas filler caps on the left side of the vehicle.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Got a neighbor that has one. She thinks she's so green until ya point out that most of the car is made of petroleum products including the electricity she charges it with. I could buy a year of gas just for what the charging hook up cost her. Not for me yet. But good for some to feel good.

That's one of the things people advocating "Green" don't want to talk about nor hear. You still need Petroleum products for these vehicles. TMA  is used as a product in electrical wiring insulation to reduce degradation and also needs Rare Earth products including Cobalt to produce. They also won't talk about the pollutions of air, land and water created by the mining of Lithium, etc. for the batteries needed for EVs. 

If your looking to get away from powering your vehicle with fuel, ok. But saying its also good for the environment is very questionable and also turns me off.

If I ever purchase or lease an EV, it won't be because it cleans the environment nor have that Green feeling.

Petroleum products will always be needed from Medicines, to clothing, building material, etc. The only question will be is if we buy it from USA haters, or drill here and provide incomes and jobs.

 

[Eyesa Horg]

I do get a kick out of all the out of state bored looking people leaning on their windows and consoles at the charging stations waiting so they can continue their trip. Still there when I get done grocery shopping. Some keep looking at a gauge or their watch!

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

Just my 2 cents, first off I ran my own solar business installing on and off grid solar, wind and hydro systems for 17 years in Vt, NH, ME and I have lived off grid more than 15 years and grid tied for more than 20 as of this year so I know a bit about batteries and green power. I love solar and have a 12kw system with battery backup, generator and grid tie but I WONT buy an EV yet. I do believe they have their place and in time they will become an excellent choice for most people (notice I said in time) as of right now the grid CAN NOT support an EV transportation system in this country. In fact at present the national grid is starting to show serious problems just keeping the lights on in lots of places. Remember what happens when bad storms hit ? Remember no grid means no vehicle charging. One other thing to remember is once all your stoves are electric, all your heat, all your AC, all your lights, all your hot water, once everything you own is electric remember to check between your legs to see who’s hands are squeezing the family jewels because at that point the electric company owns you. I know this because I watch them steal my solar credits every day but the state of VT sides with the power companies and allows them by LAW to take my solar power that I paid to produce and not pay me. Be very careful about putting ALL your eggs in one basket, give EVs time and their day will come but trying to do everything overnight is a really bad idea

[Pb Mark]

Google the Toyota 1:16:90 Rule.  

 

At the current moment, think Toyota once again, gets it correct.  Hybrids currently make sense for all types of car travel to me.

 

Almost time to get in the Subaru in lower corner of NM and rip back to central KS.  About a 10-hour trip with hardly breaking too many speed limits.  Depending on the wind, either a one or two stops quick for gasoline.  Not prime time for EV's yet.  Will it eventually be hydrogen fuel cells, nuclear mini powerplants, or stop and plug in to a public battery charger?  Something totally different like time travel via Startrack? Maybe one day, someone will let the free market decide.  I'll leave it all up to the grandkids.  

[PowderRiverCowboy]

My only to fears in Life that after I die I vote Dumbocrat and buy a EV .

[Rye Miles #13621]

Maybe Dilithium crystals someday?? Elon Musk will find some I’m sure.

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said:

Just my 2 cents, first off I ran my own solar business installing on and off grid solar, wind and hydro systems for 17 years in Vt, NH, ME and I have lived off grid more than 15 years and grid tied for more than 20 as of this year so I know a bit about batteries and green power. I love solar and have a 12kw system with battery backup, generator and grid tie but I WONT buy an EV yet. I do believe they have their place and in time they will become an excellent choice for most people (notice I said in time) as of right now the grid CAN NOT support an EV transportation system in this country. In fact at present the national grid is starting to show serious problems just keeping the lights on in lots of places. Remember what happens when bad storms hit ? Remember no grid means no vehicle charging. One other thing to remember is once all your stoves are electric, all your heat, all your AC, all your lights, all your hot water, once everything you own is electric remember to check between your legs to see who’s hands are squeezing the family jewels because at that point the electric company owns you. I know this because I watch them steal my solar credits every day but the state of VT sides with the power companies and allows them by LAW to take my solar power that I paid to produce and not pay me. Be very careful about putting ALL your eggs in one basket, give EVs time and their day will come but trying to do everything overnight is a really bad idea

We installed a large solar array about 10 years ago and took advantage of the tax breaks from the feds and state. Our monthly power bill back then was $750.00 and up, last year I believe we paid $557.00 for the year and all of that was fees and taxes. Our power bill now days without the solar system would be $1,500.00 month plus. There is going to a huge outcry someday, hopefully, when all electric that’s been foisted upon us fails because the power grid fails. Imagine sitting in the dark, freezing your ass off and nobody can do anything about it because their EV’s that they use to service the grid have dead batteries. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Yes, all our technology and infrastructure is locked in perpetuity at 1939 levels.  There will never be any replacement or improvement.  

[Eyesa Horg]

18 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

We installed a large solar array about 10 years ago and took advantage of the tax breaks from the feds and state. Our monthly power bill back then was $750.00 and up, last year I believe we paid $557.00 for the year and all of that was fees and taxes. Our power bill now days without the solar system would be $1,500.00 month plus. There is going to a huge outcry someday, hopefully, when all electric that’s been foisted upon us fails because the power grid fails. Imagine sitting in the dark, freezing your ass off and nobody can do anything about it because their EV’s that they use to service the grid have dead batteries. 

Damn, I think my worst bill has been just under $150.