bgavin Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Elizabeth Warren (Pocahantas of MA) introduced a bill to ban bulk ammo sales, and do the CA ammo purchase regulations nation-wide. This got me thinking, again, about stocking up on bulk ammo. I recently picked up 500 ct of 230gr FMJ as plinkers for my new 45. I thought about paying the little bit extra for JHP, but we looked at the photos and didn't figure it would expand as well as an XTP or Lehigh, etc. My thoughts were for training ammo that might do double-duty as defense rounds. I figure the FMJ was a mistake (I do make so many of them), and am questioning if ho-hum JHP would have been the better purchase. [ edit ] I already have Lehigh Defense nasty-ass bullets in stock for savage defensive rounds as hand loads, and Acme LRN 230s for plinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 A lot depends on which bullet the reloader used, If it's a common garden variety old style hollow point, I wouldn't bother. If they were Premium HP bullets, I might. Most likely I would do as I have always done and go cheap on training ammo, only ensuring that the bullet weight and powder charge are similar to my carry ammo. Even if I were to need to use ball ammo for defensive purposes, the ball ammo would probably work well. At least better than 9mm ball ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 I'm not a fan of 9mm for defense... too weak. I read news article after news article of some perp getting popped 5x with a 9mm and surviving. Short of a direct head shot, 9mm ain't all that. Statistics say 8 out of 10 (IIRC) survive being shot with a hand gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Looks like they came from RMR bullets. Buy more. Lots more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 Check out Berry's HHP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 17, 2023 Author Share Posted November 17, 2023 These are LAX Ammo, manufacturer is Freedom Munitions. The bullets are X-Treme https://www.xtremebullets.com/45-230-HP-p/xc45-230hp-b0500.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 But more. Lots more. I have too much ammo, said no one. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, bgavin said: I'm not a fan of 9mm for defense... too weak. I read news article after news article of some perp getting popped 5x with a 9mm and surviving. Short of a direct head shot, 9mm ain't all that. Statistics say 8 out of 10 (IIRC) survive being shot with a hand gun. I've seen a few ballistic gel tests with some of the newer premium 9mm bullets that were fairly impressive. I'd trust a Federal HST bullet to perform as intended. Not saying that others wouldn't, but I've always liked Federal Ammo. This site has been mentioned before, but I'll reference it again. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Maverick Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 1 hour ago, bgavin said: Elizabeth Warren (Pocahantas of MA) introduced a bill to ban bulk ammo sales, and do the CA ammo purchase regulations nation-wide. This got me thinking, again, about stocking up on bulk ammo. I recently picked up 500 ct of 230gr FMJ as plinkers for my new 45. I thought about paying the little bit extra for JHP, but we looked at the photos and didn't figure it would expand as well as an XTP or Lehigh, etc. My thoughts were for training ammo that might do double-duty as defense rounds. I figure the FMJ was a mistake (I do make so many of them), and am questioning if ho-hum JHP would have been the better purchase. [ edit ] I already have Lehigh Defense nasty-ass bullets in stock for savage defensive rounds as hand loads, and Acme LRN 230s for plinkers. I guess it would depend on your training range. Here in the Austin area a lot of the ranges won't allow us to use FMJ, just JHP. So that sways us a lot in our decision making. TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Buying ammo is never a mistake. Buy until you are comfortable, then a tad more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Lud Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Just depends. Buy bulk of both if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 MORE ammo is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassnetguy50 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 2 hours ago, bgavin said: I'm not a fan of 9mm for defense... too weak. I read news article after news article of some perp getting popped 5x with a 9mm and surviving. Short of a direct head shot, 9mm ain't all that. Statistics say 8 out of 10 (IIRC) survive being shot with a hand gun. Those are not expanding hollow points. They are designed for range competition not defense or hunting. So no, they would not do double duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 I have used many of the Berry’s coated HP in various calibers, as ballistically they perform almost exactly the same as far as POI/POA compared to my personal defense ammo (Hornaday Critical Defense). (Same weight) But let me say I have not used them on a live target so have no clue as to terminal performance. However depending on where I am at and what I am carrying I cannot imagine being hit by a 9 mm, 10 mm or 45 ACP whether practice or defense ammo would be all that great for the target. Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 If you find a good price on bullets that you like, I'd recommend buying a bunch of them. Because you never know when your bullet supplier is going to develop a taste for wine and cheese and up and move to France. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 The answer to the headline question is… BOTH!!! Whatever you can get is far and away better than neither!! So long as it’ll go BANG and come out of the barrel with enough energy to make a hole in the intended target, it will be much better than an empty gun!! The answer to how many guns or how much ammunition is, simply, MORE THAN I HAVE NOW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 4 hours ago, bgavin said: These are LAX Ammo, manufacturer is Freedom Munitions. The bullets are X-Treme https://www.xtremebullets.com/45-230-HP-p/xc45-230hp-b0500.htm Those are for target shooting. They claim they fly more consistently. For self defense they would perform like ball ammo. If you want a self defense round from X-Treme they have TMJ Hollow Points called X-Def Bullets. They claim they do very well in the FBI gelatin tests with 4 layers of denim. https://www.xtremebullets.com/category-s/55983.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 I have Lehigh Defense for savage defense, both the fracturing and defense lines. I checked out the Lucky Gunner test site, saw there are several bullets with large expansion and decent penetration. Most of those are factory ammunition though, and not for the hand loader. I found more tests done by Lehigh with Bill Wilson from Wilson Combat who has endorsed the Lehigh bullets. My thoughts about a pure defense situation is downing the perp as fast as possible. This means the biggest hole and the most devastating wound channel. Digging in a bit more, I do find the Ruger Mini-30 is still legal in CA. That might even the odds a bit against some jihadi with an AK-47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Buy bullet molds. As long as a source of lead acid batteries are a thing you have ammo. Shoot 2 or 3 jacketed rounds after lead and it cleans out the grooves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 16 hours ago, bgavin said: Elizabeth Warren (Pocahantas of MA) introduced a bill to ban bulk ammo sales, and do the CA ammo purchase regulations nation-wide. This got me thinking, again, about stocking up on bulk ammo. I recently picked up 500 ct of 230gr FMJ as plinkers for my new 45. I thought about paying the little bit extra for JHP, but we looked at the photos and didn't figure it would expand as well as an XTP or Lehigh, etc. My thoughts were for training ammo that might do double-duty as defense rounds. I figure the FMJ was a mistake (I do make so many of them), and am questioning if ho-hum JHP would have been the better purchase. [ edit ] I already have Lehigh Defense nasty-ass bullets in stock for savage defensive rounds as hand loads, and Acme LRN 230s for plinkers. First of all I doubt this would ever pass the house or senate. I’m not worried at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: First of all I doubt this would ever pass the house or senate. I’m not worried at all. That's not the point! The point is to Buy More Ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 Whoda' thunk the ban on bumpstocks and ARs either? Following that idea further, whoda' thunk having to register your firearms, wait 10 days or not be able to give or sell a firearm to a friend of family member? Inch by inch, our rights are whittled away. Same as the Sun... you don't see it move, but it does rise and set every day, even if you can't see the movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, bgavin said: Whoda' thunk the ban on bumpstocks and ARs either? Following that idea further, whoda' thunk having to register your firearms, wait 10 days or not be able to give or sell a firearm to a friend of family member? Inch by inch, our rights are whittled away. Same as the Sun... you don't see it move, but it does rise and set every day, even if you can't see the movement. Not here in Ohio! Yer in California so I understand where you're coming from but us folks in the free states don't have that worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Snorter Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 We all have to worry and be proactive, they are working on it everywhere, every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Not here in Ohio! Yer in California so I understand where you're coming from but us folks in the free states don't have that worry! Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: Yet. Nah ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said: We all have to worry and be proactive, they are working on it everywhere, every day. I live in a southeastern state, outside of the city that is the capital of that state! I have two senators that support the Constitution and the 2A and my congressman and those in most of the surrounding districts also lean heavily toward that same side! I also have my state representatives that are likewise inclined! STILL! There are those who would deprive me of those Constitutional rights in office in some positions in my state and many more in this nation that would do the same! THEREFORE!! I DO worry about these detrimental things happening, especially if I and those like me aren’t always vigilant and don’t constantly remind those elected officials that we are watching and that we vote! I average writing at least two letters a week to those representing me and I text, email, and telephone their offices whenever I see or hear of ANY attack on my rights! Even when I receive notification from 2A organizations of which I am not a member, I sign onto their emails and texts in support of 2A friendly legislation and in opposition to legislation that would effect the Second Amendment negatively! It only takes a few minutes out of those days when I do this and less than an hour in the average week! If you believe that these things can’t or won’t happen in your area, you’re absolutely delusional!! Just ask those folks who are fleeing places where it is and has happened already! REMEMBER! The cities are growing exponentially and they are places where this stuff festers and eventually boils over onto the surrounding areas! When the population of those rat holes outpaces the population of the outer areas, you’re constantly in jeopardy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 Ammunition in pretty much all calibers is available everywhere currently for a decent price. Buy as much as you can while we still can. Because as previously mentioned, no one ever said "I have too much ammo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Nah ! Always remember that anywhere and everywhere is only ONE....maybe two if in off year elections, election cycle from turning the other way. That quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 21 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said: Always remember that anywhere and everywhere is only ONE....maybe two if in off year elections, election cycle from turning the other way. That quick. I’m pretty confident that Ohio is not going to go with any bans on any firearms. I know it can happen but this state is pretty red except for the 3 big cities. Our gun laws are among the best in the country. We just got constitutional carry as d eliminated the license to carry. No waiting periods and we can buy whatever we want. Laws like they have in Cal. NY NJ etc will be a long time coming here. I’m not worried but I am aware I’m not ignorant or naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 19 hours ago, Michigan Slim said: But more. Lots more. I have too much ammo, said no one. Ever. This ^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted November 18, 2023 Author Share Posted November 18, 2023 All it takes is a Federal law, or Executive Order, and that will override all the State laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 54 minutes ago, bgavin said: All it takes is a Federal law, or Executive Order, and that will override all the State laws. Federal law has to be passed by the house and senate. An executive order won’t work, Biden already tried it. The SCOTUS will shoot it down ! https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/09/six-actions-biden-took-guns-show-limits-what-he-can-do/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 I’m sure Biden would love to do what Pocahontas is proposing and believe me he would have done it by now but Executive orders can only go so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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