H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 This is an idea for people who like big and powerful cartridges. Take a .45-70 case and trim it back to the same length as a .45 Colt. Load the powder behind a 405 grain bullet. You now have an extra powerful .45 Call it, I dunno, .45-45 or .45 Super or .45-70 extra short or something like that. What kind of a gun would be needed? Well, you may not need a super behemoth of a pistol. I have an Uberti SAA clone in .44 Magnum. It is only slightly upscaled from a standard SAA. This gun might be large enough to allow for cylinder to take the slightly fatter than .45 Colt cartridges, as there is a LOT of thickness between the chambers on this gun. Of course, the cartridge could also be used in something already chambered for .45-70, either a super large revolver or a single shot rifle. Hmm.. Maybe .45 Super Cowboy Special? Completely theoretical of course, but what do people think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 It is called the .454 Casull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 You'll have a worthless cartridge 400+gn rifle bullet in a .45 Colt length case ain't leaving much room for powder. Then there's the .458 dia of the rifle bullet.... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANASSAS DRAGON Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 i remember an article in one of the gun mags abt a shortened .458 mag(or other mags) with .458 bullets. author said it was great but i suppose the author would say that. i dont recall the the basic gun but it was a single action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Wouldn't be much of anything "Cowboy". So why suggest a name that would be EASILY confused with something already in production! good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I can see it now... "chambered in the BFR, introducing the new BFR Minor!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, SHOOTIN FOX said: It is called the .454 Casull. Pretty much this ^ but that is where the fun starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Something similar has been around for a long time a little bigger bullet .475 but a very nice rig for dangerous / large game. It first came out as the .475 Linebaugh and is the basis for the 480 Ruger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Whiskey, SASS #75905 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 45-70 is a tapered case, if you trim it to that length the bullet will not fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Not the BFR, more like the Little Dinky Revolver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 There is already a .45 Super. Springfield even produced a 1911 a few years back in the .45 Super called the V-16. I owned one and it was a potent pistol. Now, I shoot the .460 Roland, which is just a little more potent than the Super. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 From Cartridge Conversions, run by our own Mayor Maynot Killya, I give the 45-60-250 BRIMSTONE! Based on the 460 S&W case, it's a 45 caliber bullet weighing in at 250 gr on top of 60 grains of black powder. He builds a custom conversion cylinder for a Colt Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: From Cartridge Conversions, run by our own Mayor Maynot Killya, I give the 45-60-250 BRIMSTONE! Based on the 460 S&W case, it's a 45 caliber bullet weighing in at 250 gr on top of 60 grains of black powder. He builds a custom conversion cylinder for a Colt Walker. Oh the exciting potential this has. And I was wondering what to do with the Walker I have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: You'll have a worthless cartridge 400+gn rifle bullet in a .45 Colt length case ain't leaving much room for powder. Then there's the .458 dia of the rifle bullet.... OLG The .458 gumint sized to .454 and loaded in a BP 45 colt case shot out of a 30" barrel in a 73 is a very accurate cartridge. I don't recall how many gs of powder I used but do remember the initial velocity was a tad over 600 fps. The completed cartridge was long enough that it had to be shot as a single shot as it would not cycle. I used it to beat a group of guys that were shooting Highwalls and other assorted single shot rifles. I do remember the guy using the spotting scope laughing pretty hard. He said I had enough time to shoot it, run down and move the target in front of the bullet so I wouldn't get any misses. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Call it what it is, The Wrist Breaker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: From Cartridge Conversions, run by our own Mayor Maynot Killya, I give the 45-60-250 BRIMSTONE! Based on the 460 S&W case, it's a 45 caliber bullet weighing in at 250 gr on top of 60 grains of black powder. He builds a custom conversion cylinder for a Colt Walker. Sounds like .45 Black Powder Magnum.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Black_Powder_Magnum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Sounds like .45 Black Powder Magnum.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Black_Powder_Magnum Sounds like FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Anyway.... To clarify, the use of the .45-70 cut back to .45 Colt length was for two reasons. To enable the use use of the 405 Grain .458" bullet and to allow, at least theoretically, for use as a "sub" round in single shot rifles in the caliber. By making it the length of the .45 Colt, even though it uses a big bullet, it would still be, at least theoretically, less powerful than something like the .454 Casull, and thus less punishing to shoot. It is purely a thought experiment, not a real practical idea. As far as what to call this theoretical cartridge, I just thought up some random names, somewhat tongue in cheek. I suppose the .45-45 would be, at least theoretically, a legitimate name. After all, 45-60 is .45-70 shortened, shortening it more would maybe seem like .45-45 is a good approximation of what what kind of a load it could take. And yes, I know it would need a bigger bore in the barrel. Sometimes it's fun to speculate on things, and that's all this really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Not even an answer to a Question not needing an Answer .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Share Posted February 6, 2021 To quote someone... "Do you Know why I shoot 45s ? ..... because Colt didn't make 65s ......" This theoretical ".45-45" would give you something mightier than a .45 Colt without getting into needing supersized guns or overpowered hand-cannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 12:41 PM, Goody, SASS #26190 said: From Cartridge Conversions, run by our own Mayor Maynot Killya, I give the 45-60-250 BRIMSTONE! Based on the 460 S&W case, it's a 45 caliber bullet weighing in at 250 gr on top of 60 grains of black powder. He builds a custom conversion cylinder for a Colt Walker. I don't have the Walkers but I gots about 175 pieces of brass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Let us not forget the thicker web in the cartridge base. reducing the internal case capacity. For a "What-If" thing, I'm glad H.K. realizes it's not at all "practical." I seem to remember, a conversion Gunsmith, Alias Hoof Hearted, built the first Brimstone Conversion?? Couple of folks since have jumped in to further the project. It does create a really fine "Howitzer" grade Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Share Posted February 6, 2021 No, it's really not all that practical at all. I like the way it is described as a "what if" type idea. Theoretically, if it had been thought of back in the day, the army could have ordered a sidearm in it, and then the ammo could be used in a pinch in the trapdoor rifles. But, not, it's not practical. I mean, just doing this in .45 Colt proved to be an project and a half. Now if you'll excuse me, I must go find an outlaw named Texas Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 H. K. Uriah; Ya missed the Most important part of my Tag Line ,,,, A Quote from my Grandma ... All people bring me Joy , Some by their Coming , Some by their Leaving and Some by their HANGING She went to be with the Lord to discuss some mistreatment ,,, Her Daughter my mom Dying before she did ... She was one tough old Norwegian .... Lived on a Cattle Ranch in Canada the last 2/3 of her Life ... Jabez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Rimmed .45s in order of OAL: .455 Eley .45 Cowboy Special .45 Schofield .45 Colt .454 Casull (made for heavy bullets) .460 S&W (made for light bullets) .45-60 .45-70 .45-90 .45-110 .45-120 Not sure that I get the need for another, but it might not be about need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 .455 Eley. Is tat the same as .455 Webley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: .455 Eley. Is tat the same as .455 Webley? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 It's been done. It was wrote up in one of the gun mags probably 15 years ago, I forget what they called it, but it was an effort to bridge the gap between the 454 Casull and the 475/500 Linebaugh longs. The thought was to use commercially available jacketed rifle bullets intended for the 45-70, somewhat alleviating the extra expense the 475/500 calibers tend to bring in bullets, due to their less common nature AND to use the 45-70 case cut down(instead of the 348 Win which is also more expensive). They screwed a rifle sized(for 458 bullets) 45 barrel on a Ruger Maximum frame, because even with a special made long cylinder, they couldn't seat bullets out far enough in a regular framed gun. I think they played with a belted version as well, but it was a long time ago, when I really wanted a wrist breaker and I gave up on getting one.(Handloading the 45 colt with heavy bullets will do anything I need done) I've loaded the 340 gr Gould hollowpoint bullet(intended for the 45-70) in colt cases at Ruger length and they work fine for deer. Not any more spectacular that a good 250/300gr JHP tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said: Rimmed .45s in order of OAL: .455 Eley .45 Cowboy Special .45 Schofield .45 Colt .454 Casull (made for heavy bullets) .460 S&W (made for light bullets) .45-60 .45-70 .45-90 .45-110 .45-120 Not sure that I get the need for another, but it might not be about need. You forgot the 45 acp rimmed very much like the 45 cowboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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