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So, in spite of all rational thinking, I am getting a hankering for an 1892 in 357 mag. I've got a 73 and it is sheer fun to shoot, but when I got my lever gun itch before SASS, I was looking for a 92 and got sidetracked by a pre 64 model 94 in 30-30.

Well that itch is starting to creep up again. I'm thinking a light lever gun would be fun to shoot and I might get the missus out with it to boot.

 

So what's the availability these days? I hear about the Winchesters and a somewhat problematic tang safety and about Rossi and the slick up work, but it's all moot if neither are available. 

 

Of course there's always my unicorn pre 64 Winchester 92 converted to 357....

 

So what do y'all say?

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My Rossi 92 in .357 is a great little gun. Loves .357 length or .38s with bullets of 158 grains and over, OAL issue with mine, but others have not had my problem.

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Contact Nate Kiowa Jones AKA Steve's Gunz.  He is the go to guy for a ready to go 92.

 

BTW the Stailless Rossi 92 is a little lighter than the blued one.

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Contact Nate Kiowa Jones AKA Steve's Gunz.  He is the go to guy for a ready to go 92.

 

BTW the Stailless Rossi 92 is a little lighter than the blued one.

 

Yeah, I can't help myself, I gotra a thing for blue steel and wood.

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2 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Yeah, I can't help myself, I gotra a thing for blue steel and wood.

 

At one time I owned 4 that were fully slicked up and ran flawlessly. 2 SS, 1 blue and 1 CCH with a 24" octagon Barrel. Traded the blued on to my stepson for a SKS. Still have and shoot the other 3.

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8 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

At one time I owned 4 that were fully slicked up and ran flawlessly. 2 SS, 1 blue and 1 CCH with a 24" octagon Barrel. Traded the blued on to my stepson for a SKS. Still have and shoot the other 3.

5 or 6 years ago Rossi was offering one with a CCH receiver and a 20" octagon barrel.

I didn't know I'd be wanting it now...

:unsure:

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6 minutes ago, Hendo said:

5 or 6 years ago Rossi was offering one with a CCH receiver and a 20" octagon barrel.

I didn't know I'd be wanting it now...

:unsure:

 

Mine is an older Braztech branded rifle with a CCH receiver and a 24" octagon barrel

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I have one in a 45 Colt that runs like a champ. I bought a used one in a 357, running 38 Special for CAS, that I just could not get dialed in with cartridge OAL and I did not want to have to use 357 brass. I have seen some that ran flawlessly, and I have nothing bad to say about them, I just couldn't find the OAL sweet spot in the one I had.

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I started with one, but as others have mentioned,  mine preferred .357 rounds with an OAL of 1.53".  Mine was also sensitive to bullet shape.

 

It was a good solid gun and was reasonably priced, but I run tuned Uberti 73's much faster so I sold the gun. 

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I'm using 357 brass mainly because that's what I had a bunch of when I started SASS so I stayed with it. 

 

What about the Winchesters? 

Is there others?

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Have 2 Rossi 92’s in 45 Colt and one that I modified to 32-20.  IMO, they are excellent long arms.  One has probably close to 20,000 BP reloads down the bore and never has a hiccup or part failure 

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Can anyone provide some comparison between the Winchester, Rossi and the Taylor and co?

 

(And yeah, I sent a kite to Nate.)

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In the past, the Winchester (Miroku Made) had a tang safety and a rebounding Firing Pin, both problematic.  Rossi are very basic but need some TLC.  Also look to Chiappa.  Chiappa offers a rather nice '92 replica and like ALL the others, it will require some set-up for CAS.  Suggest, regardless of brand, source up Nate Kiowa Jones DVD for '92 Set-Up.

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50 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

In the past, the Winchester (Miroku Made) had a tang safety and a rebounding Firing Pin, both problematic.  Rossi are very basic but need some TLC.  Also look to Chiappa.  Chiappa offers a rather nice '92 replica and like ALL the others, it will require some set-up for CAS.  Suggest, regardless of brand, source up Nate Kiowa Jones DVD for '92 Set-Up.

I completely forgot about the rebounding hammer on the Winchester.

Well, it looks like @Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 is my Huckleberry. :D

 

I'm coming of the opinion that if I find a R92 rifle in .357 with a 20" octagon barrel that I won't hesitate this time.

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;)  HENDO -_-

 

Remember the TITANIC!!  He whom hesitates at the Lifeboat Station . . . . DROWNS  :(

 

Also.  A well set up '92 can be incredibly SMOOTH and FAST.  Nate Kiowa Jones  is in fact your Huckleberry.  His site use to have a cute video of Nate Running a '92, with ONE finger, faster than you can count the rounds coming out.  Believe it.

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i started this game with a rossi 92 and enjoyed it for years , i sorta migrated to a henry 60 for a novelty then a 73 to return to traditions and settled into a 66 as being the most comfortable for me - i still shoot the others from time to time , 

 

recently bought a marlin 94 in 38/357 for that new venture i stumbled into venturing away from my 45 colts , 

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I started with a Rossi stainless 92 in .357 marked 1 of 1000.  The factory slicked up a bit for smoother action.  I regret selling it but used the funds to buy an original 1907-made Win 1892 .32 WCF SRC.

I still have a great original Win 1892 rifle in .38 WCF.

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I had a Rossi '92 in .45 Colt. The only issue I had was trying to figure out how to reassemble it when I cleaned out all the bearing grease the previous owner had packed in it. I should have kept it.

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48 minutes ago, Cholla said:

I had a Rossi '92 in .45 Colt. The only issue I had was trying to figure out how to reassemble it when I cleaned out all the bearing grease the previous owner had packed in it. I should have kept it.

You should try the Winchester 94 for reassembly. It's fun.

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If you want a .357 1892, I would recommend a Browning B92.  Very nice guns made by Miroku without the tang safety.  They were built in the 1980s in several grades, but they show up on the gun auction sites, quite often new in the box.  A Rossi will be cheaper, but the Browning is a much nicer gun.  I have an 1886 carbine in 45-70, and an 1895 in 30-06 built by Browning around the same time and they are very well built.

Edited by Doc Coles SASS 1188

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Go with a Chiappa.  (Which I think is the one Taylor's sells.)   I have one in .44 Magnum and it is out of the box as smooth and reliable as a vintage Winchester made in New Haven.   So much better than my pre-safety Rossi or my Armi San Marco.   That latter one was really bad when I got it and was the first gun I ever had an action job done to.  There was no alternative.   My Rossi is nice, and it was only after I got the ASM fixed and obtained a couple of real Winchesters that I realized that it was slightly clunky in comparison, so I had it smoothed out a little.

But the Chiappa needs no work, and it has no stupid modern safeties.  It's as John Browning designed it.  To me, that is a huge plus.

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Browning also made some very fine 92’s in 44 and 357 years ago. They can still be found and they are faithful reproductions of the original Win 92. The only drawback is they are expensive and not common.

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Like the OP, I love how light and easy to handle my Rossi is and I often choose it over my 73 for those reasons. There is a  condition that I encounter fairly regularly that anyone considering one may be interested in. The situation is that I do not always complete the lever-open stroke 100%. There is sort of a natural stop just before the end of the lever stroke...when the hammer cocks and the bolt settles into the underside depression of the bolt. At least on my gun that "natural" stop is too soon...need another quarter to half inch of lever throw to complete the lever/bolt opening and lift the carrier/lifter with new cartridge. With out that extra nudge, the carrier does not lift a new cartridge, I close the lever  and no cartridge is chambered....so "click" and redo.  I think it is probably just a user error, but wonder if it is "correctable" or changeable/adjustable. 

I love the gun and keep trying to train myself to make the complete lever throw; of course, when I mess it up is when I'm trying to go faster. 

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55 minutes ago, Ozark Okie said:

snip >>

The situation is that I do not always complete the lever-open stroke 100%. There is sort of a natural stop just before the end of the lever stroke...when the hammer cocks and the bolt settles into the underside depression of the bolt. At least on my gun that "natural" stop is too soon...need another quarter to half inch of lever throw to complete the lever/bolt opening and lift the carrier/lifter with new cartridge. With out that extra nudge, the carrier does not lift a new cartridge, I close the lever  and no cartridge is chambered....so "click" and redo.  I think it is probably just a user error, but wonder if it is "correctable" or changeable/adjustable.

<< snip 

Yeah ... you called it ... It is the lifter. 

 

There is a plunger (with a spring behind it) sticking out of the side of the lifter. 

Near the end of the lever travel the lever has to raise the lifter (as you described). That "extra" effort is the plunger trying to get itself out of a bowl depression in the side of the receiver as the lifter starts to move. There is another "bowl like depression" to keep it in the raised position.

The little plunger (looks like a ball bearing sticking out of the side of the lifter) travels between these two spots during normal operation ... one keeps it down .. (till the lever lifts it) and the other keeps it up until the forward traveling bolt pushes it back down. 

 

The trick to smooth this out (make the transition less noticeable) is to ease the path of the plunger out of the "bowl" from the bottom position ... just make a little ramp. The thing has already marked it's path (from usage) so it is easy to see where to flatten/smooth things out a bit. 

You have to use a small pointed file as the depressions and any worn track is part of the inside wall of the receiver ...

I cheated and lightened the plunger spring a bit too ... but I don't think Steve recommends that.

 

When you get it right ... you won't notice the (starting) resistance hardly at all and you will still have enough plunger pressure to keep the lifter firmly in the up position (with a cartridge sitting on it). ^_^  

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Pete, you identified the problem area very well. I worked on the lifter plunger to smooth the path out of the bottom "bowl" area; also smoothed the plunger end and took one turn off the plunger spring. It helped....how much will be determined when I can run it at the range. Thank you.

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On 10/26/2020 at 4:38 PM, Patagonia Pete said:

Yeah ... you called it ... It is the lifter. 

 

There is a plunger (with a spring behind it) sticking out of the side of the lifter. 

Near the end of the lever travel the lever has to raise the lifter (as you described). That "extra" effort is the plunger trying to get itself out of a bowl depression in the side of the receiver as the lifter starts to move. There is another "bowl like depression" to keep it in the raised position.

The little plunger (looks like a ball bearing sticking out of the side of the lifter) travels between these two spots during normal operation ... one keeps it down .. (till the lever lifts it) and the other keeps it up until the forward traveling bolt pushes it back down. 

 

The trick to smooth this out (make the transition less noticeable) is to ease the path of the plunger out of the "bowl" from the bottom position ... just make a little ramp. The thing has already marked it's path (from usage) so it is easy to see where to flatten/smooth things out a bit. 

You have to use a small pointed file as the depressions and any worn track is part of the inside wall of the receiver ...

I cheated and lightened the plunger spring a bit too ... but I don't think Steve recommends that.

 

When you get it right ... you won't notice the (starting) resistance hardly at all and you will still have enough plunger pressure to keep the lifter firmly in the up position (with a cartridge sitting on it). ^_^  

 

Not sure what make of 92 you are referring to but all 92's made Rossi/Braztech, Chiappa, Winchester, or Miroku; have removable cartridge guides. The LH cartridge guide has the lifter detent. Why make the process of modifying it 1000 times harder by not removing it?

 

Only thing that you have to remember to do is install the cartridge stop spring correctly when reinstalling it.

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave

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92 questions and I have only 16 answers - I feel woefully inadequate ..... again ...   1f628.png

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Not sure what make of 92 you are referring to but all 92's made Rossi/Braztech, Chiappa, Winchester, or Miroku; have removable cartridge guides. The LH cartridge guide has the lifter detent. Why make the process of modifying it 1000 times harder by not removing it?

 

Only thing that you have to remember to do is install the cartridge stop spring correctly when reinstalling it.

 

 

Yes you are correct about the cartridge guides ... but we are talking about the track and indents that the plunger on the side of the lifter runs in.

 

Near the end of the stroke when opening the lever ... it pushes on the rear of the lifter arm to raise the front of it up (so the cartridge will get picked up on closing) ... That plunger ... trying to get out of it's divot/indent/bowl (whatever gunsmiths call it) ... is what causes the resistance Okie is talking about. 

 

Making it easier for the lifter to get out of that indent is what he is after. 

 

If you take the lifter out you can look up in there and see the track that plunger runs in .,, honest injun ...  s10.gif.e544f8d89fcece24cae96e85dcda26ac.gif

 

92lifter.jpg.cb87428c0e4b0b9ca1f7674715122317.jpg

 

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48 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Yes you are correct about the cartridge guides ... but we are talking about the track and indents that the plunger on the side of the lifter runs in.

 

Near the end of the stroke when opening the lever ... it pushes on the rear of the lifter arm to raise the front of it up (so the cartridge will get picked up on closing) ... That plunger ... trying to get out of it's divot/indent/bowl (whatever gunsmiths call it) ... is what causes the resistance Okie is talking about. 

 

Making it easier for the lifter to get out of that indent is what he is after. 

 

If you take the lifter out you can look up in there and see the track that plunger runs in .,, honest injun ...  s10.gif.e544f8d89fcece24cae96e85dcda26ac.gif

 

92lifter.jpg.cb87428c0e4b0b9ca1f7674715122317.jpg

 

 

Pulled out my books and for the Rossi the detent for the lifter plunger is part of the LH cartridge guide. Seems that the 92 Winchester has this detent milled into the receiver. Learned something.

 

Rossi LH cartridge guide You can see the wear marks from the lifter plunger top center

image.png.ed0a717f4344a2e93b62aa79b9490540.png

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Pulled out my books and for the Rossi the detent for the lifter plunger is part of the LH cartridge guide. Seems that the 92 Winchester has this detent milled into the receiver. Learned something.

 

Rossi LH cartridge guide You can see the wear marks from the lifter plunger top center

image.png.ed0a717f4344a2e93b62aa79b9490540.png

 

My Rossi is a 45 and it is part of the receiver ... that is a picture of one from a 38/357 ... so that's an advantage for the smaller caliber ... darn ... A very good thing to know.

I'm w/ Okie ... I remember often short stroking when feeling that resistance ... 

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It was asked if someone could compare the Winchester, to the Rossi to the Taylor's.  I did some checking, and I was able to to confirm that the Taylor's is made by Chiappa.  I have guns by all three makers, so here goes...

 

Winchester:  Now, when I say Winchester, I mean a rifle made in New Haven, Connecticut back in the day.  I have two of these.

One is a .32-20 carbine and the other is one that started life as a .38-40 rifle that has been rebarreled to .44 Magnum and has a "John Wayne" style large loop on it.   The short barrels on these two guns make them very quick handling guns.  Actions are smooth and slick, and they work without any flaws.  Of course, they are exclusively on the used market now, and they can command premium prices.   They can still be had for a reasonable price if you look hard enough.  The only calibers they are in is .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40  These are the guns I compare the others to.

 

Rossi:  There are basically two versions of this gun, the pre-safety model, and the current production ones with that goofy looking safety on top of the bolt.  Overall, I would say that they are "not as good" as the Winchesters, but are still pretty decent.   My first Rossi is a pre-safety model in .44 Magnum.  It was my first SASS type gun, and I never thought there as anything wrong with it until I got my real Winchesters.   It was then that I noticed that it was slightly "clunky" in comparison.  I eventually had a simple action job done to it, and now it runs as nicely as a Winchester.   The other Rossi I have access to is a current production model, with the safety, that belongs to my brother in .357 magnum.  The action was not as nice as the pre-safety model.  It was not unusable, but it was noticeably clunky.   My brother had an action job done right away, and it is much better.   One thing that was very noticeable with this gun that did not seem to exist on the older model is that there seemed to be a "stop" in the action at about 90% of the lever throw.  You really had to push hard on it to get that last 10% of movement.  I have read that others have experienced this phenomenon.   Rossi guns are available in .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .45 Colt and .44-40.  If they are in other calibers, I have not personally seen them.   Note that mine tended to not work quite right with. 44 Specials, but with low power magnums it worked just fine.   My brother's .357 has a similar problem with .38 specials.    You can't go wrong with a Rossi, it'll work okay out of the box, but you'll probably want to have some work done to it.  If you are willing to go used, find a pre-safety model.

 

Chiappa:  I can't say enough good things about this one.  Mine is a take down model, .44 Magnum, in Mare's leg configuration.   The thing is as smooth as a real Winchester and functions flawlessly.  If you want a new 92, I feel this is the way to go.  (I have not tried to run .44 Specials in it.)  These are very well made guns, and that is reflected in the price.   You're gonna pay more for one of these, but you won't have to have any work done.  No dumb safeties either.   I feel these are worth the extra cost.  If I was gonna get another 92 and wanted a new one, this is where I would go.

 

Armi San Marco:  This model was not asked about, but since I have one, I'll mention it anyway.   The company is gone, so it's gonna be used if you want one.  My recommendation is that you pass.  Mine is a .45 Colt rifle.  The action seemed nice in the store, but as soon as you loaded ammunition into the magazine, it became a nightmare.  One pard said was "painful" to watch me try to use this gun.  It was the first gun I ever had any action work done to. and it was purely out of mandatory need.   It now runs as smooth as a real Winchester, but I would say it's not worth the irritation.   For all intents and purposes, unusable as it comes out of the box.

 

So those are my comparisons of the different makes of model 92's.   I still think it's a great rifle, and people will argue over if it is outclassed by the 73.   I like both rifles, and just have fun, so I don't worry about that.   I have also seen some top shooters who do just fine with this gun, so don't think it's not competitive.   If you want a 92, it all comes down to how much do you want to spend, how much work will you have to have done to it, if any, and are you willing to go used.   Once you figure that out, you can go for it.

All of the above is based on my personal experience with guns that I own and shoot.   The experiences of others may be different.  :)

 

I have no experience with the Miroku guns that are made in Japan and labeled "Winchester" or the now rare Browning 92s.

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