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sassnetguy50

Identified now. Can you name these .38 hollow points?

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Darn you, J Mark... I was gonna go with Bob and Bill and Mark...!   :rolleyes:

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Hydra-Shok...agreed. 
 

J. Mark and Hardpan Was going to say “Larry, Moe & Curly”...but. You beat me to the naming scheme. :lol:

 

 

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Well, actually, most of y'all are wrong. :) 

 

They are Hydra-Shok rounds.  I've carried them since they were introduced in 1989.  These and Winchester Black Talon were my go to rounds for years.  I'm mostly a Speer Gold Dot guy now.  

 

And they are Larry, and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl.  

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What does the case head say for maker?

OLG 

Good question.  The heads were hiding in a speed strip.

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Federal Hydro Shock.

Only duty rounds our officers were to load were Federal, this after testing at an un-named Canadian Federal police armament lab.

Practice? Anything that went Bang.

Our big switch was from a Colt Police Positive, was to the Glock 17 in 9mm and a later switch to .40 

 

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I think one of them might be Dindu Nuffin.

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1 hour ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Good question.  The heads were hiding in a speed strip.

 

Are they stuck in the speed strip??

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I've been reading about open hollow points getting clogged with heavy clothing on their journey to Perp Neutralization.
There seems to be some favor for the FTX-type tips that don't get clogged in denim.

Thoughts?

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52 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I've been reading about open hollow points getting clogged with heavy clothing on their journey to Perp Neutralization.
There seems to be some favor for the FTX-type tips that don't get clogged in denim.

Thoughts?

I use XTP for hunting.  Fur, skin, meat, bone, nothing has stopped them from opening yet.  Assuming a heavy leather coat would be similar.  

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1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 

Are they stuck in the speed strip??

No, I pulled Shirley out and she complained about being cold, so she went back in the strip without looking at the head stamp.

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

I've been reading about open hollow points getting clogged with heavy clothing on their journey to Perp Neutralization.
There seems to be some favor for the FTX-type tips that don't get clogged in denim.

Thoughts?

 

FTX bullets require sufficient velocity to expand. If you watch ballistics tests on YouTube you'll see that for example 9mm FTX bullets barely expand when fired from a 3" barrel. Out of a 4-5" barrel they expand fine.

 

Right now Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST seem to be the best rounds for defense in most calibers. Hydra-Shok is older technology but still works good. SIG's V-Crown and Hornady XTP are great as well, but only in certain calibers and loads.

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Plan B.  Federal Hydrashocks, probably 130 gr

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I currently have Hornady Critical Defense 38SP (FTX) and 44 mag handloads in 225 grain FTX.
I plan to add a box of Critical Duty (357) which are still a closed hollow point, but are full house 357 loads.

I only have one SP101 357 in 4"... everything else is 5.5" and longer.
I can run the FTX in my rifles and get good velocity.

One of my buds tells me, "the handgun is only temporary until you can reach the 12-gauge."
That does indeed pump more lead.

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18 minutes ago, bgavin said:

One of my buds tells me, "the handgun is only temporary until you can reach the 12-gauge."
That does indeed pump more lead.

 

That's a line from Clint Smith, who said "the job of a pistol is to enable you to fight your way to your rifle". I don't know what kind of gunfights he usually gets in, but for us civvies they usually last only a few seconds, so whatever you've got in your hand is what you're gonna have to use from beginning to end.

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I figure any defensive posture I have to take will be ANTIFA/BLM coming through my neighborhood and destroying cars and houses.
This will most likely occur outdoors, with sufficient time to grab the shotguns.

I was curious about how the LEOs viewed the above open nose hollow points vs closed points, specifically for penetrating heavy clothing.
As Pat notes, "throw more lead", which is why I favor buckshot.
 

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Howdy Bgavin,

 

Normally, we never hear about the successful expansion characteristics of our HP bullets but folks are quick to talk about

those few that didn't expand, for various reasons.

I have done some unscientific test over the years and can attest that A LOT of the various HP bullets will expand and a FEW don't.

But from my experience, our HP bullets give good results for their intended purposes.

 

But please note that a .355 HP bullets designed for 9mm will probably not give you good performance if you fire that same bullet

in a .357 SIG, which also uses .355 bullets.   That is why folks like Speer will make their Gold Dot bullets for 9mm and a specific bullet

for .357 SIG, because of velocity variations.

 

Personally, I think caliber and expected velocity have a lot to do with how the HP functions, or fails to function.

For 9mm, I like the Speer 124 gr. Gold Dot

For .357 SIG, I like the Speer 125 gr. Gold Dot and 125 grain Hornady XTP.   And I really like the factory Remington 125 gr Golden Sabre.

For 10 mm, I like the 150 Nosler, 165 Sierra V-Crown.  I don't think I've tested the XTP in 10mm.

For the .460 Rowland (which is .45 caliber), I like the 185 Hornady XTP, 185 Gold Dot, 185 Sierra JHP and the 200 Sierra V-Crown.

For my hot .45 Colt loads, I basically stick with 250 Hornady XTP and 300 Hornady XTP/Mag.

 

I load my .357 SIG, 10mm, .460 Rowland and .45 Colt loads rather warm to hot, for top performance.

Based on the caliber and the velocities that I use for these bullets, they all perform very well.

 

If you get on You Tube, you can find info and charts that others have posted that show velocity ranges, penetration and expansion averages of

5 shots for many of our HP bullets.  

 

..........Widder

 

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Clint Smith might use his handgun to fight his way to the rifle,

but ole Widder uses his handguns to keep the Perps from reaching their rifle.

;)

 

..........Widder

 

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7 hours ago, bgavin said:

I've been reading about open hollow points getting clogged with heavy clothing on their journey to Perp Neutralization.
There seems to be some favor for the FTX-type tips that don't get clogged in denim.

Thoughts?

 

6 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

I use XTP for hunting.  Fur, skin, meat, bone, nothing has stopped them from opening yet.  Assuming a heavy leather coat would be similar.  

Tanned (cured) leather is different from skin.

6 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

FTX bullets require sufficient velocity to expand. If you watch ballistics tests on YouTube you'll see that for example 9mm FTX bullets barely expand when fired from a 3" barrel. Out of a 4-5" barrel they expand fine.

 

Right now Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST seem to be the best rounds for defense in most calibers. Hydra-Shok is older technology but still works good. SIG's V-Crown and Hornady XTP are great as well, but only in certain calibers and loads.

I carry 9mm Hornady Critical Defense in my P938 (3" barrel) and Critical Duty in my Sig SP2022 (4-1/4" barrel).

 

Per the Hornady web site, for 9mm FTX, a 4" barrel is the dividing line. Critical Duty is not expected to perform well in a mouse gun.

 

Both 9mm FTX rounds are standard pressure, but they use different powders tuned for barrel length. Choose based on gun (barrel length), don't compare then in the same gun.

 

For Hornady .45ACP, the story is different. First, you want a 4" barrel minimum. Critical Defense in this caliber is standard pressure, Critical Duty is +P. Critical Duty also meets the standards for the FBI (LE) use. And it is marketed as such. Unlike the 9mm version, it is not specified by barrel length!

 

In my .45ACP Range Officer (4"), I carry Hornady Critical Defense. I did try Critical Duty, 3 rounds, off hand unsupported... Painful but I could handle it. But I don't really feel the need to penetrate a wall or a car door and still get at least 12" of penetration in my target; I do want to get a second shot off quickly if needed.

 

I have not researched the distinctions for the other Hornady FTX calibers, really responding to make the point that how Hornady markets each caliber and the distinctions between them varies by caliber and pressure.

 

FTX does do better in terms of clogging compared to open hollow points, and the FBI specification only considers penetration, not whether the bullet turns into a flower.

 

I have no objection to any round or bullet design commonly used or based on or even formerly used by LE. I did choose Hornady FTX as my carry round which is why I know a bit more than average.

 

Whatever you choose, just make sure your gun eats it happily without hiccups or jams. If any carry gun I get in the future does not like Hornady, I will pick something else in a heartbeat.

 

Also, I compete with my carry guns and have found Blazer Brass has similar recoil to Hornady SP rounds; No, I am not as fast as I could be with that hot of a round but I do know how fast I might be in a defense situation.

 

For CAS, I'll be loading for speed which might mean a lot softer shooting cartridges... Which brings up another consideration... I have no reason to doubt that my future soft-shooting BP propelled LRNFP rounds exiting my 1873 revolvers or lever rifle will be any less dangerous to an assailant than my modern guns and ammo.

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14 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

Well, actually, most of y'all are wrong. :) 

 

They are Hydra-Shok rounds.  I've carried them since they were introduced in 1989.  These and Winchester Black Talon were my go to rounds for years.  I'm mostly a Speer Gold Dot guy now.  

 

And they are Larry, and his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl.  

I’ve got a couple boxes of the Black Talon put away in cling wrap as collectors items

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I thought they were named Jesus, Joseph, and Mary.

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19 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Can you name these .38 hollow points?
 

joseph, James and John.

I was thinking MARK, MATTHEW AND JOHN.  lUKE IS NOT SO HOT. 

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