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Turkey Flats Jack

Pan lube vs lubersizer press

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I've only ever pan lubed and truthfully I've never even seen a lubersizer in person. Any insights on the topic would be appreciated. I'm kinda tired of the mess my BP lube makes out of my seating die and considering getting a lube sizer machine if it'll make a difference.

 

Thanks,

 

T.F. Jack

 

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I use a star sizer, much faster than lubrisizer or pan lubing. Bullets size nose down and drop out bottom on each sizer stroke. 

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Tell us the ingredients of the lube you are using to pan lube and how you pan lube.  I have over 7000 BP pan lubed bullets in inventory for multiple calibers and the only BP lube on them is in the grooves.  Believe both issues are why you have excessive lube in the seating die(s)

Using a lube sizer and buying the costly H&I dies can if not used properly will put excessive lube on the bullets too

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2 minutes ago, John Boy said:

Tell us the ingredients of the lube you are using to pan lube and how you pan lube.  I have over 7000 BP pan lubed bullets in inventory for multiple calibers and the only BP lube on them is in the grooves.  Believe both issues are why you have excessive lube in the seating die(s)

Using a lube sizer and buying the costly H&I dies can if not used properly will put excessive lube on the bullets too

Arrange bullets in an old skillet spaced about .25" apart, set on a burner on low heat and add 50/50 beeswax/tallow until it fills the top lube groove. Turn burner off and let cool. Then I use a modified piece of brass as a cookie cutter. 

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Posted (edited)

I guess it'd be nice to have a Star lubesizer but they are pretty pricey.  I have an old Lyman 450 that was old when I got it.  A couple of months ago I did a repair on it that wouldn't have been necessary had I not neglected it for 20 years in bad storage.

 

 

I can't say that it's a joy lubesizing on the Lyman 450, but it gets the job done.  I have the dies and top punches and even several sticks of Javelina lube.  Brother-in-law and I would buy 12 sticks at a time and split the dozen. 

 

But I love to load coated bullets.   And load with BlackMZ with no lube or coating, 

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I can't say that it's a joy lubesizing on the Lyman 450, but it gets the job done.  I have the dies and top punches

I've been offered a Lyman 450 new in the box for $130 shipped. Seems like a fair deal but then I looked at the cost of the dies and top punches. Not sure I'm willing to spend that kind of money. I'm starting to think cleaning out my bullet seating die every few hundred rounds isn't so bad lol.

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TJ,

I have tried my hand at pan lubing and found that to be more trouble than what its worth to me. That said I found a used RCBS luberisizer not sure which model and likely bought from someone on the wire the dies and top punches too. Perhaps put something on the classifieds WTB sizing dies and top punches...Sizing and lubing is not my favorite part of the process of casting. But I still have to clean my dies time to time and ESPECIALLY if you are using a Lee fcd for a necked bullet such as 44-40. But now just because you reminded me about pan lubing just might have to try again. That's my 2 cents worth.

 

Hochbauer

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3 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

I've been offered a Lyman 450 new in the box for $130 shipped. Seems like a fair deal but then I looked at the cost of the dies and top punches. Not sure I'm willing to spend that kind of money. I'm starting to think cleaning out my bullet seating die every few hundred rounds isn't so bad lol.

 

Sounds like a good buy.  I knew these machines were high, new or used,  but I didn't realize how high.  Used dies are often offered on eBay.  

 

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37 minutes ago, Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 said:

TJ,

I have tried my hand at pan lubing and found that to be more trouble than what its worth to me. That said I found a used RCBS luberisizer not sure which model and likely bought from someone on the wire the dies and top punches too. Perhaps put something on the classifieds WTB sizing dies and top punches...Sizing and lubing is not my favorite part of the process of casting. But I still have to clean my dies time to time and ESPECIALLY if you are using a Lee fcd for a necked bullet such as 44-40. But now just because you reminded me about pan lubing just might have to try again. That's my 2 cents worth.

 

Hochbauer

 

What's your trick to clean lube from the 44-40 Lee fcd?

 

FWIW, I've been using an RCBS lubrisizer since 1977.  Never tried to pan lube.

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I can't help with the question about Lee dies, but I do a sloppy variation on pan lubing by dipping the bottom of the bullet into the melted lube and just letting it harden, so I get excess lube on the bullet that can accumulate in my seating die.  Cleaning the Dillon dies on my 550 is easy.  The core of the die can be removed from the toolhead without changing the adjustment of the die itself.  Wiping out the die with a Q-tip moistened with some solvent like case lube or alcohol or mineral spirits or whatever gets the excess lube out of the way in a minute.  Then re-insert the core of the die into the toolhead and continue reloading.  Not a big deal.  Don't even have to get out of my chair to do it!  :lol:

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Pan lubing and shooting as cast bullets. My thing is I place the pie tin of bullets in the freezer for about an hour. Push bullets out of wax and nice clean bullet with only the grease grooves filled. 50/50 bees wax and crisco with a dash of olive oil.

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I've found that you do not need to size straight walled caliber bullets. Just tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox. Very easy and quick. A Lee tech guy told me years ago, "if they'll chamber, shoot 'em". If necessary use a carbide Lee factory crimp die for straight walled cases and it will "size" the loaded bullet in the crimp stage. You gotta size 44-40 and 38-40 however. I sold my Star sizes years ago as it was too much trouble. Now I size with Lee bullet sizing dies. Much easier and faster. You can also shoot black with Liquid Alox lube. Hope that this helps.

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Just some thoughts...

 

I think a used 450 or even an older 45 model would be a great step forward for you.

 

The Ideal company (pre-Lyman) even had told of the advantages of their machines about a hundred years ago as being both cleaner & faster.

They still sold cake-cutters for those that wanted them though.

 

What diameter dies will you need?

 

 

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When I started this game, I pan lubed all my bullets. Then, one year, the Mrs decided that we needed new appliances, including a matching stove.  Along with the new stove came a new edict....No pan lubing in the new stove.

 

At the time, I had no place to put the old stove and continue using it, so I purchased a Star.

 

My only regret is that she didn't buy that new stove sooner!

 

Of course, we've moved since then, and left that stove, but I still love my Star.

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I have an oooold Lyman 45.  It is easier and more consistent than pan-lubing, for me.  It came with a flat top punch which is the only one I've needed since all the bullets I lube are flat point.

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1 hour ago, Preacherman said:

You can also shoot black with Liquid Alox lube. Hope that this helps.

 

I did not get good results with Alox and real black powder.  May I ask what powder you are using?

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3 hours ago, Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 said:

 

What diameter dies will you need?

.452, .430, and .358 should be all I'll ever need. Everything else that I load for gets smokeless powder and comes already lubed. 

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4 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Pan lubing and shooting as cast bullets. My thing is I place the pie tin of bullets in the freezer for about an hour. Push bullets out of wax and nice clean bullet with only the grease grooves filled. 50/50 bees wax and crisco with a dash of olive oil.


Ike, can you clarify; you put the pan of bullets in the freezer after you pan lube them?  Thanks 

 

Seamus

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IE Liquid Alox and black powder, oops, I'm shooting APP and it works great. They say that you don't even have to lube them. I can't speak for the real thing, Lee says that it will work fine though. Smokeless, I tumble lube everything 32, 9mm, 38, 40, 44, 45.

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43 minutes ago, Seamus McGillicuddy said:


Ike, can you clarify; you put the pan of bullets in the freezer after you pan lube them?  Thanks 

 

Seamus

I place the bullets in an empty pie tin, melt wax and pour it into tin. When it gets cool enough to handle I place it on the freezer. Once good and cold I push out the bullets. Wax stays intact. Put wax back in the tin, and now push un-lubed bullets into the empty holes. Heat pie tin. Melt was, repeat.

Ike

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Thanks, Ike.  I’ll try it. 
 

Seamus

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Posted (edited)

Star, one for BP;) and one for that other powder:unsure:. Get your dies from 'lathesmith' over at castboolits.gunloads.com. Good Luck:) 

Edited by Jefro, SASS#69420
correct
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I pan lubed for years .

Finely bought a lubersizer and did not like it at all.

Went back to pan lubbing and never looked back .

 

As they say the grass ant always greener on the other side .

 

So saith the Rooster 

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46 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I pan lubed for years .

Finely bought a lubersizer and did not like it at all.

Went back to pan lubbing and never looked back .

 

As they say the grass ant always greener on the other side .

 

So saith the Rooster 

See that's why I'm kinda hesitant on jumping right on buying a lube sizer. Especially after pricing it out. Is the minor inconvenience of not having to clean my dies every few hundred rounds worth the money? How much of a headache is lube sizing? I really don't need to size just lube what's already been sized. I pan lube about 200 bullets at a time and it really don't take long. Decisions decisions

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Posted (edited)

Jack, read Irish Ike’s post ... I pan lube mine the same with no excess lube on the bullets, only in the lube grooves.  

Change your lube too ... 40-40-20 mix of tallow, paraffin and beeswax. You need the paraffin to stiffen up the lube.  
The recipe works for black powder and smokeless reloads including in a 220 Swift at 2800 FPS with lead bullets and no leading

The recipe comes from a 1943 NRA magazine article used for factory loads, pre 1900

Edited by John Boy
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9 hours ago, Preacherman said:

I've found that you do not need to size straight walled caliber bullets. Just tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox. Very easy and quick. A Lee tech guy told me years ago, "if they'll chamber, shoot 'em". If necessary use a carbide Lee factory crimp die for straight walled cases and it will "size" the loaded bullet in the crimp stage. You gotta size 44-40 and 38-40 however. I sold my Star sizes years ago as it was too much trouble. Now I size with Lee bullet sizing dies. Much easier and faster. You can also shoot black with Liquid Alox lube. Hope that this helps.

TFJ

I was going to message you and tell you to contact Preacherman.

We have had extended conversations on the road about Lee Liquid Alox.

This is what I would do in your position.

It is the easiest and cheapest to try so if it doesn't suit you then you haven't lost much.

 

Waimea

 

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1 hour ago, Waimea said:

TFJ

I was going to message you and tell you to contact Preacherman.

We have had extended conversations on the road about Lee Liquid Alox.

This is what I would do in your position.

It is the easiest and cheapest to try so if it doesn't suit you then you haven't lost much.

 

Waimea

 

I'll have to look into it but I'm not thinking alox is gonna work to well with real black powder. I've no need to lube bullets for smokeless as yours comes ready to go for that. Some day I'll remember to ask for non lubed from you and save myself the trouble of removing it lol.

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14 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

I'll have to look into it but I'm not thinking alox is gonna work to well with real black powder. I've no need to lube bullets for smokeless as yours comes ready to go for that. Some day I'll remember to ask for non lubed from you and save myself the trouble of removing it lol.

I might remember to ask.

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On 5/31/2020 at 2:04 PM, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

I did not get good results with Alox and real black powder.  May I ask what powder you are using?

As I don't use real Black, I'm curious why it did not work well. I'd give it a try as it's cheap and easy. See what happens. The attached is from Lee's Second Edition "Modern Reloading" which has an extensive chapter on casting, etc. Hope that this helps.

Lee Alox.jpg

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Magma Star Lube-sizer

It's expensive but it is the Cadillac.

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I got my star sizer in a lot I bought off Facebook marketplace that included the star sizer a functional mec 600 shotshell press, 2 1/2 bags of wads, and a trash bag full of once fired hulls, all for a grand total of $60usd! I almost felt bad as I handed him three twenties and loaded my haul into the back of my truck.  I did buy a lathe smith die so my total investment is about $100, but that still includes the other stuff. No more lee alox for this cowpoke...

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2 hours ago, Preacherman said:

As I don't use real Black, I'm curious why it did not work well.

 

I can't explain the chemistry, but it took a lot more scrubbing to get the barrel clean after shooting Alox lubed bullets with real BP.  Alox can be diluted nicely with mineral spirits, so it must not be an aqueous mixture.  And it's water that keeps real BP fouling soft.

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If I only needed 200 bullets I wouldn't have bought a Star either. But I load for 4 people in my family, so the Star is the fastest and still does a great job. My rule of thumb is ,if you load on a progressive press you probably need a Star, or at least an RCBS or Lyman. If you use a single stage press, pan lubing is probably fine for you. But if you are sizing already with a LEE or something and THEN pan lubing, that is really wasting time. A lubrisizer can do both at the same time

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15 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

If I only needed 200 bullets I wouldn't have bought a Star either. But I load for 4 people in my family, so the Star is the fastest and still does a great job. My rule of thumb is ,if you load on a progressive press you probably need a Star, or at least an RCBS or Lyman. If you use a single stage press, pan lubing is probably fine for you. But if you are sizing already with a LEE or something and THEN pan lubing, that is really wasting time. A lubrisizer can do both at the same time

I pretty much load just for myself. I'm loading on a progressive press. The projectiles I use are already sized I just have to put BP lube on them. I lube 200 at a time because that's about all that will fit in the skillet that I use. I generally keep 500-1000 ready to be loaded at any given time. I'm thinking I'll keep pan lubing for now. I'll try a couple other lube recipes that's been mentioned and see how I like them. 

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On 5/31/2020 at 8:22 PM, Turkey Flats Jack said:

See that's why I'm kinda hesitant on jumping right on buying a lube sizer. Especially after pricing it out. Is the minor inconvenience of not having to clean my dies every few hundred rounds worth the money? How much of a headache is lube sizing? I really don't need to size just lube what's already been sized. I pan lube about 200 bullets at a time and it really don't take long. Decisions decisions

The best part about pan lubbing is after the first batch .

It's very simple. 

Just stick the bullets in the same hole and put the pan on top of your double boiler and walk away .

Come back a hour later. 

Unplug the crockpot and go do something else .

A few hours or days later go pull out the bullets real quick. 

The next time you decide to lube .

Fill the holes with bullets and start over again .

Can really get much simpler. 

IMHO.

So saith the Rooster. 

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