Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Shooting Bull

How can you shoot this?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Keystone, SASS # 47578 said:

It's no use Widder, some folks believe that 1+1+1+1 = 3.  

 

No need to get snarky.  

 

What’s ACTUALLY being said is that 3+1=4. In other words, a triple tap was performed on the center target and then the tenth round was put on the center target. Stage instructions have been fulfilled. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going against consensus on this thread it seems. Instructions say triple tap targets 1 through 3, 10th round on target 2. If the stage writer had wanted 4 on 2 then he wouldve said quad tap target 2. You cant expect a stage writer to go through everything you're not supposed to do. It'd take a week to read the instructions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Instructions say triple tap targets 1 through 3......

 

No, that’s not what the instructions said. If they did say that it would imply a sweep. Instead they simply said to engage the three targets in any order THEN put the 10th round on the center target. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate Tripple Taps ,,,,,,, I see the first shot ,, I think I See for the second Shot ,,, no hope of seeing target for the third shot ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, For at least 5 seconds with 5MPH cross wind ....

I like it written place 3 shots on two and four on one of the targets ..... Much better chance of seeing a few of the targets ....

 

Then I shoot according to wind direction , Sweeping 3 times with the last shot on the first target to become semi visible ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy ,,,, Who shoots FCD ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

The scenario said the 10th round on the center target. Triple tap the targets in any order. So P1-3,P3-3, P2-3 +1 perfectly fine.

 

I'm very new to this and the Roop County Days in Fernley, Nevada this weekend was my first "big" event. As Ike says above, we had this exact scenario...I read the instructions, I looked at what wasn't in the instructions and shot it with three triple taps P1, P3, P2 plus one on the center. I can see how the concrete sequential thinkers wouldn't like this for its lack of clarity but that's exactly what makes it interesting and a challenge. This, for me at least, allows me to explore the boundaries of the box and see where it can be expanded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

No, that’s not what the instructions said. If they did say that it would imply a sweep. Instead they simply said to engage the three targets in any order THEN put the 10th round on the center target. 

  If I'm writing a stage, I don't imply a sweep. I say sweep. 

  In this case, the shooter wouldn't HAVE to shoot a sweep to satisfy the instructions for the stage; however, he can't put his last tripple tap on target 2 because his last round is on 2. If he does, the he hasn't triple tapped it, he has quad tapped it. Thats NOT what the instructions say to do.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys know that this question has been argued before... Regardless, 4 shots in a row on the same target is not a triple tap.

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You guys know that this question has been argued before... Regardless, 4 shots in a row on the same target is not a triple tap.

 

Phantom

So logically, 3 shots consecutively on a single target is not a double tap, correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me try a different approach. How is it possible to perform a quad tap without first performing a triple tap? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shooting Bull said:

Let me try a different approach. How is it possible to perform a quad tap without first performing a triple tap? 

Ya can't. But the second you put the fourth round on there, it aint a triple tap anymore. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether you say single tap, double tap, triple tap, quad tap, or penta tap(ok, I made that one up) it says by definition the minimum and maximum that it can be engaged in a row. No more, no less

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

Let me try a different approach. How is it possible to perform a quad tap without first performing a triple tap? 

Yea... This has been used as an argument before... Logic isn't there... Sorry bud.

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

Ya can't. But the second you put the fourth round on there, it aint a triple tap anymore. 

 

This argument has been made a few dozen times. Your wording here is the first time I’ve ever been able to see and understand the other side. Crap. Gonna have to go rethink it now. I hate having to think. I’m not good at it. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yea... This has been used as an argument before... Logic isn't there... Sorry bud.

 

;)

 

Sure it is. It just might not be very good logic. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a quadruple tap is not prohibited, then it is allowed.  If you don't want one, say so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

If a quadruple tap is not prohibited, then it is allowed.  If you don't want one, say so.

Actually they did prohibit it when they didn't say to quad tap it. They also didn't come out and prohibit a double tap or a penta tap(I'm starting to like that one). They didnt come out and say not to dump everything on one target either. I'm all for leniency in the way someone can run a stage but there has to be limitations, otherwise its just a free for all. What would be the point of winning that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The moment the THIRD round hits the third target. 

At that exact moment - the triple tap requirement/ direction is satisfied and completed.

It is done. 

 

AFTER following that specific instruction; the shooter moves to the next direction. Which is place the 10th round on any plate.

 

Two separate instructions. 

And two separate actions

 

There is no QUAD tap; 

After the triple tap; that instruction ceases to apply and the shooter proceeds to the next required action.

Shooter has fulfilled the instruction to the letter.

Three triple taps. 

Followed by a single tap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love it!!!

 

4 shots in a row on the same target and it's not a quad tap.

 

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold on a minute!  I need to get more chips and another beer!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously, 4 shots on a target is a triple-tap plus 1 or a quad. 

 

And I do not read that it is prohibited in the instructions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fail to see the difficulty in following simple instructions.

 

How do I get to the store? Pick anyone of these three roads and drive three miles.

When you get to mile number three; you will see a sign for the store. 

After that; continue on the road for ONE more mile.

 

The instruction is not go FOUR miles.

It is very specifically two separate instructions; with a distinct "and then"  break in the instruction.

Go THREE miles; AND THEN go one more.

No one expects you to stop your car or take a break between miles three and four.

 

The shooting instruction is triple tap the plates. 

Place the 10th round on any plate.

Two specifically different and separate instructions.

 

As long as both instructions are satisfied; it has been done correctly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I fail to see the difficulty in following simple instructions.

 

How do I get to the store? Pick anyone of these three roads and drive three miles.

When you get to mile number three; you will see a sign for the store. 

After that; continue on the road for ONE more mile.

 

The instruction is not go FOUR miles.

It is very specifically two separate instructions; with a distinct "and then"  break in the instruction.

Go THREE miles; AND THEN go one more.

No one expects you to stop your car or take a break between miles three and four.

 

The shooting instruction is triple tap the plates. 

Place the 10th round on any plate.

Two specifically different and separate instructions.

 

As long as both instructions are satisfied; it has been done correctly.

 

 

Me too. 

Define double tap

Define triple tap

Define quad tap

Which one means shoot the target 3 times? Triple tap

If you shoot a target 1 time and then once more, what have you performed? -Double tap

If you shoot the target 2 times plus 1 more what have you performed? Triple tap

If you shoot the target 3 times plus 1 more, what have you performed?

QUAD TAP.

If that is not the case? How do you perform a quad tap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

 

Me too. 

Define double tap

Define triple tap

Define quad tap

Which one means shoot the target 3 times? Triple tap

If you shoot a target 1 time and then once more, what have you performed? -Double tap

If you shoot the target 2 times plus 1 more what have you performed? Triple tap

If you shoot the target 3 times plus 1 more, what have you performed?

QUAD TAP.

If that is not the case? How do you perform a quad tap?

On a stage that calls for no double taps, would you allow a triple tap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

On a stage that calls for no double taps, would you allow a triple tap?

No, because that means shoot the target 1 time. You cant shoot it 3 times without first shooting it 2 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

No, because that means shoot the target 1 time. You cant shoot it 3 times without first shooting it 2 times.

So, in order to triple tap, you first have to double tap?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

So, in order to triple tap, you first have to double tap?

No. By definition to triple tap, you have to hit it 3 times with no other target engagements between. If you hit it 2 times and did nothing else, it would be a double tap. If you hit it 2 times and hit it again, you have hit it 3 times which is a triple tap. 

Hits are cumulative. The tap sequence is named after its engagement. You wouldnt hear someone say hit the first target with 2 double taps. They would say hit the first target with a quad tap. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consistency is important here. If we determine that a triple tap violates a no double tap rule for the purpose of assessing a penalty, we really should apply the same logic to wether it satisfies stage instructions as well. If we contort logic depending on the situation, I think we are doing everyone a disservice and making things unnecessarily difficult to understand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree people are making this a lot more difficult than it needs to be. We all learned to count a long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for those who think you can’t do it that way:

 

shooter shoots 3 rounds on the left target, then 3 on the right target, then 3 on the center. They jack out the 10th round and don’t have a reload so they move on to the shotgun. How would you call that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love it...

 

The same old arguments and logic.

 

Yes, you must first perform a single tap before you can perform a double tap... And a triple tap is always preceded by a double tap... Etc, etc.

 

But the last shot on the same target defines what it was. 4 in a Row on the same target means that target was quad taped.

 

Keep on screwing with the game folks... Keep on coming up with silly analogies...

 

Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Question for those who think you can’t do it that way:

 

shooter shoots 3 rounds on the left target, then 3 on the right target, then 3 on the center. They jack out the 10th round and don’t have a reload so they move on to the shotgun. How would you call that?

 

 

1 miss:  for unfired round..... SHB pg. 21

 

Miss cannot cause a Procedural:    ROI Manual pg. 64

 

..........Widder

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the exact way the instructions read,  Creeker explained it well.

 

After the first 9 rounds, assuming you triple tapped, the triple tap part of the instructions are done.  Over.  Finished.   I'm totally with everyone on the difference between a triple and quad tap.  I get it.

 

But we are following the instructions in order like building furniture.

 

Step 1) triple tap each target.

Step 2) place 10th round on middle target.

 

Once you've finished Step 1 it doesn't matter where the last shot was.  It's over.  Next instruction.  You can't violate it with a quad tap because that instruction is fulfilled and has ceased to exist.  You are on the next step.  Starting over with the counting.  Put the last round on the middle target.  That's all that matters here.

 

No different than if the final target was a completely separate piece of steel from the others.

 

Same concept as to why we allow dirty sweeps much of the time.  What do we do when the instructions very obviously don't specify which end to start each sweep? 

If the stage instructions tell a shooter: "sweep the 5 targets, with second 5 rounds repeat instruction."... how is that usually handled today?  We usually say the dirty sweep is ok because the instructions are to:

1) sweep

2) sweep again. 

Doesn't say how.  So once the first instruction is fulfilled it's treated as completed and no longer exists.  You are then free to begin your next sweep from the other end on the target you just shot already.  Sound familiar?  It should.  This is the EXACT same stage writing situation with a different number of shots involved.  The final target of the first sweep was double tapped to begin the next sweep.

 

So does that also make the dirty sweep a P when there is that open of a description on which end to start each sweep?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fast Enuff said:

Based on the exact way the instructions read,  Creeker explained it well.

 

After the first 9 rounds, assuming you triple tapped, the triple tap part of the instructions are done.  Over.  Finished.   I'm totally with everyone on the difference between a triple and quad tap.  I get it.

 

But we are following the instructions in order like building furniture.

 

Step 1) triple tap each target.

Step 2) place 10th round on middle target.

 

Once you've finished Step 1 it doesn't matter where the last shot was.  It's over.  Next instruction.  You can't violate it with a quad tap because that instruction is fulfilled and has ceased to exist.  You are on the next step.  Starting over with the counting.  Put the last round on the middle target.  That's all that matters here.

 

No different than if the final target was a completely separate piece of steel from the others.    

 

This is not building furniture, and its not giving location directions(and if someone told me to go 3 miles and then go 1 more I'd better find someone else to ask). It's simple counting. 4 hits on a target is a QUAD tap. It is a simple definition. Doesn't matter if it takes .5 second for all 4 or if you take .5 seconds for the first 3 and wait 5 minutes til you shoot the 4th. Its still a QUAD tap.

 

 

1 hour ago, Fast Enuff said:
1 hour ago, Fast Enuff said:

 

Same concept as to why we allow dirty sweeps much of the time.  What do we do when the instructions very obviously don't specify which end to start each sweep? 

If the stage instructions tell a shooter: "sweep the 5 targets, with second 5 rounds repeat instruction."... how is that usually handled today?  We usually say the dirty sweep is ok because the instructions are to:

1) sweep

2) sweep again. 

Doesn't say how.  So once the first instruction is fulfilled it's treated as completed and no longer exists.  You are then free to begin your next sweep from the other end on the target you just shot already.  Sound familiar?  It should.  This is the EXACT same stage writing situation with a different number of shots involved.  The final target of the first sweep was double tapped to begin the next sweep.

 

So does that also make the dirty sweep a P when there is that open of a description on which end to start each sweep?

 

   I'm glad you bring this up. This is one of those times you will hear "NO DOUBLE TAPS". Also, goes without saying no triple taps or ya P on it. 

    Why is there a need to say no double taps? To keep you from doing the DIRTY sweep. Why do they call it the dirty sweep? Cause if you dont specify, people(including me) will sweep it that way. The definition of a triple tap means you dont have to tell the shooter every little thing they cant do in the other case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with the 'yes 'side in this  stand off''..stage instructions  quite clearly allowed the shooter to finish with 4 on the center target.

Iffin' you want it shot different then  write it that way !!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.