Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Have any of y'all ever gotten a speeding ticket in California? I've had exactly one in my half-century + of driving, and that in 1984, in my then brand-new Ford Ranger. Seems I was going sixty, when the national speed limit was 55. Paid the fine and went on about life. But I digress... So a few weeks ago, 25-year old Sassparilla Kid shows up hopping mad. Seems he'd just received his very first ever speeding ticket, and he was feeling as though he'd been unfairly dealt with. Per his explanation (remember, I was not there), he'd been driving west on the county road Avenue 12, a 2-lane road with a posted 55 mph limit. He said he was the last in a string of vehicles, matching their speed, when he saw a California Highway Patrolman about a mile away, heading east. No big deal, sees 'em all the time on that road. As the fella passed in the opposite direction, Sassparilla said he was surprised to see him hit his lights and do a U-turn. Per local custom as well as legal requirements, he dutifully pulled over so the fella could safely pass and continue his pursuit of whomever he was after. The Kid was totally shocked when the CHP officer pulled in and stopped behind him. Per the Kid, there ensued a discussion wherein the officer claimed he (the Kid) had been driving 75+ in the 55 zone. Upon request the Kid handed the officer proof of insurance and registration, followed by a discussion re the ownership of the car - "It's my Dad's" [he was driving my yellow Miata]. And the guy "did the Kid a favor" and wrote him a citation for driving 70 in a 55 zone, instead of his "observed" 75. The Kid is stunned. Doubly stunned; first off, he claims he was not driving that fast, and second with trying to pay the fine and schedule an appearance to protest it. Scheduling an appearance is apparently not such a simple thing these days, and the "fine" is somewhere in the vicinity of $400, including "processing fees" and "traffic school." (Seems a mite steep to me) Discounting the observations of myself and everyone else who knows him that the Kid drives like an old lady, Avenue 12 is a two-lane minor arterial, and is fairly heavily traveled (AADT of up to 10,000). Again, I wasn't there, but my personal opinion is that it's pretty darned hard to drive that fast on that road at that time of day - especially with a line of cars ahead of you. Anyway, the Kid gets home and notices a couple of discrepancies with the ticket. First, although the officer had the registration with my name on it, he stated that the car was registered to the Kid. Second, he wrote the location as being on Avenue 10, two miles south of the actual site. So the Kid wants to contest the ticket. Not because he thinks the two fields of incorrect information should invalidate the ticket, but because he claims he was NOT driving at that speed. Rather, his thought is that the incorrect information on the citation could support his contention that the officer not very attentive, and also likely made an error in his judgement of the Kid's speed. And for those who might think a yellow Miata is a "chick magnet," be advised it just ain't that kind of "magnet!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I think the discrepancies on the ticket are further indication that the officer "wasn't all there" and the speeding part can't be trusted either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 This is why Russians feel obligated to have dash cams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Sounds to me like the Kid has a valid reason to contest it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 He should contest the ticket based upon the discrepancies, the fact that he was last in a line of cars going the speed limit, the fact I hat the patrolman was heading in the opposite direction and shot his vehicle in a line of cars, which would appear to the radar device as one long vehicle. Not least in his argument, he should argue that from his observations the officer was impaired, since he didn't know what road he was on, filled in the kid's name as registered owner when docs and the kid stated otherwise. Further, the kid should request the officer's drug test history and demand the officer go directly from court to a hospital for a drug-test blood draw. Refuse to accept the test provider used by the police agency. The kid may want to hire an attorney net for all this. It will cost maybe 3 times (maybe less) the cost of paying the ticket. Kid should think about filing a complaint against the officer. Believe me, the Department doesn't like that and may delay or refuse giving the kid the proper form(s). He should not go alone to the Department to get the form. Don't you go with him... He should get a friend to go with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said: He should contest the ticket based upon the discrepancies, the fact that he was last in a line of cars going the speed limit, the fact I hat the patrolman was heading in the opposite direction and shot his vehicle in a line of cars, which would appear to the radar device as one long vehicle. Not least in his argument, he should argue that from his observations the officer was impaired, since he didn't know what road he was on, filled in the kid's name as registered owner when docs and the kid stated otherwise. Further, the kid should request the officer's drug test history and demand the officer go directly from court to a hospital for a drug-test blood draw. Refuse to accept the test provider used by the police agency. The kid may want to hire an attorney net for all this. It will cost maybe 3 times (maybe less) the cost of paying the ticket. Kid should think about filing a complaint against the officer. Believe me, the Department doesn't like that and may delay or refuse giving the kid the proper form(s). He should not go alone to the Department to get the form. Don't you go with him... He should get a friend to go with him. Anti police bias much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grass Range #51406 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Fight it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said: Anti police bias much? No police bias on my part. I'd stay out of this one...... Based upon what was said, it seems to me that AT LEAST, the officer MAY be a substance abuser. Given that he should be tested immediately with an escort, otherwise, he won't go and the court will have no way to punish him. it also seems to me that he may have overextended the abilities of his equipment to provide reliable data. Anyway, I believe that the kid should think hard about this one and not just pay the ticket. If I were the judge, I'd dismiss this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Sounds like 'quota tagging' to me. Contest it. Hardpan used the work "observed" Back here in E.TN, if the tall Johnson grass ain't leaning over close to the ground, the speed isn't exceeding 60 mph... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The last time I got stopped for speeding--- I was on a road that had a speed limit 10 MPG different depending on which direction you were traveling. Anyway when I received the "Blue Light Special", the nice Officer told me to plead NOT GUILTY and take it to court where he would further discuss the ticket. In most places if the Officer doesn't show in court, the case is dropped. When I explained myself to the court (without a shark), the Judge and Officer lowered the fine significantly and removed the points on my license. Even with "court fees" the cost was less and I still have "Clean" license. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said: No police bias on my part. I'd stay out of this one...... Based upon what was said, it seems to me that AT LEAST, the officer MAY be a substance abuser. Given that he should be tested immediately with an escort, otherwise, he won't go and the court will have no way to punish him. it also seems to me that he may have overextended the abilities of his equipment to provide reliable data. Anyway, I believe that the kid should think hard about this one and not just pay the ticket. If I were the judge, I'd dismiss this one. Stay out of this? I only spent 38 years as a police officer I guess I don't know anything about the subject. Did you ever think that maybe the officer was exhausted. I spent a whole lot of shifts with damn little sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I would contest it. Have the kid take pictures of where he was really stopped(include any signage if possible)and then pictures of where the citation says the stop was made. Also ask the officer how the speed was determined. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Henry, you have a point very much worthy of consideration. Beyond the ticket, the kid has absolutely no personal animosity toward the officer. And he definitely has no anti-police bias... he's surprisingly conservative for his age, and often laments not being able be a LEO himself - not qualified due to color blindness. But he is kinda peeved about the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Also-IF the kid has a clean driving record for many years. Have the kid go to DMV and ask for a H6 printout. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Good ideas, Lumpy! For what it's worth, the Kid's a downright boring driver ~ speed ain't his thing, and he won't even pull out into traffic unless he has at least a half mile clear of traffic. He's used to - and quite happy with - driving his 43-year old Mercedes diesel. Benz is down - engine hydrolocked, so he's borrowed the Miata. WHICH he grouses about and drives like the 43-year old Mercedes diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 15 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Henry, you have a point very much worthy of consideration. Beyond the ticket, the kid has absolutely no personal animosity toward the officer. And he definitely has no anti-police bias... he's surprisingly conservative for his age, and often laments not being able be a LEO himself - not qualified due to color blindness. But he is kinda peeved about the ticket. Ask for a hearing and let the officer prove his case. Do everything Lumpy suggested. Be confident and courteous and not confrontational. In this area the judge will more than likely offer a plea to 5 mph which carries a minimum fine and no points. BTW my kid is also stone color blind his favorite color is yellow because he can see it. For years he thought his grey truck was green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I have never received a speeding ticket in 60 years of driving, BUT that isn't saying I have never been cited. Many years ago I was making a left hand turn across traffic in a left turn lane on a divided hwy. Lots of traffic. I was turning onto a side street near a signal. Traffic was backed up, at a complete stop. The 2 lanes opposite me going the other way left room and gave me the right of way to turn. I turned and was hit my someone illegally passing on the right of the stopped traffic. Cops came and cited me for making an illegal left turn and not yielding right of way. I decided to fight the ticket. Went to the local library and looked up the violation in the motor vehicle laws book. It said that when one or more lanes of traffic yielded right of way ...all subsequent lane must also yield. I also took pictures of the unmarked lane used by the vehicle that hit me. At court I cited the law and president and was found not guilty. I had to actually go to court and plead not guilty, pay the fine/bind and them appear at the actual trial date. Do a little research about the violation, take pictures and go explain it to the judge/commissioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 HArdpan, Tell him to appear in court on the designated date and plea "not guilty". A court date will be set. The officer must appear in court. If he doesn't the charges will be dropped. If he does have your son ask how he determined the speed he was driving. If he says "radar" have him tell the officer to produce the calibration certificate for the radar unit and prove that the unit serial number matches the certification. Tell him to tell the judge about the circumstances that occurred for the officer to award the ticket and "nicely" point out the ticket discrepancies. Also, if the officer claims he didn't use radar and used his cruiser's speedo to determine speed by California law he must track the car that is speeding for at least a quarter mile to determine an accurate speed. Have him look up the penal codes for these issues on line. They will line out the requirements for an officer to ticket someone for speeding. Have him search for: Use of radar Calibration of radar Speed determination by speedometer Maybe he will get off without the fine or the black mark on his driving record. Everything I mentioned above is a "right" in the court of law in CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird 61147 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Henry I agree with you 100%. Especially the comment from the "moderator". DId it for 42years. Nothing gets people going like a ticket. They all say they support the police etc, but when it comes down to it they really don't. I've had tickets people found things out of order and these Perry Mason's think they have a case. The fact is, they usually lose. Bottom line; you did it, be a man and pay it. Everyone screws up once in a while. No big deal. Just don't say you "back the badge etc." We know your full of B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee Stud Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yeah... but I did not live in Cali. Goin' up I-5 on a rented Harley 750 motorcycle... I got a ticket.. above Sacarmento. I gave the officer my license... and he kept the dang thang. Gave me a friggin' piece of paper that said somethin' on it. Let me go. Later, flew back to Tennessee... and reported to THP that my license was missin'. AHHH-HA!!.. what a shock!! Wonder who took it? (wink... nod) TN gave me a copy of the original license. Apparently, I still have an "outstandin'" warrant over in CA. Well... at this point in my life... come and get me. I would love the free health-care. ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 F'Bird, are you serious? Did you read the other posts. BTW, how do you know the driver IS guilty as you post claims he is? BTW#2: I am a former LEO and this is not my first day in court. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Free Bird... are you speaking in generalized terms, or are you referring specifically to the Kid...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Nothing gets people going like a ticket they didn't deserve. I know, firsthand. It still eats at me 15 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Howdy, One other thing is to check and see if the officer had just given a ticket for the same speed. The radar can hold a reading or so Im told. I was once given a similar ticket. Crusing along on a two lane with too much traffic to pass. Cited for 70 in a 55. No way I was going a bit over 55. But guilty of driving a sporty car. SOME cops are just way jealous. Im totally convinced of that. Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassparilla Kid SASS #8968L Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Since I'm the one who got the ticket I'll add a few more details to the story. One of the first things I noticed was the officer seemed unusually jittery (every other time I've talked to anybody in law enforcement they have always seemed rather cool and collected), and when he spoke it was about a mile a minute. Secondly, when I was looking through the papers in the glove box for the registration I noticed one of the papers had been an old registration from the previous owner that somehow was still in there, and when the officer saw the DMV logo told me to give him the paper, and when I told him it wasn't current he was extremely insistent that I hand him the paper immediately. Upon noticing the name on the (old) registration was not the same as the one on my license, he took a step back, put his hand on his gun, and started very authoritatively asking me "WHO'S CAR IS THIS!?? HOW DID YOU GET IT!??" and then got irritated when I again explained to him that the registration I handed him wasn't current, and if he had waited another second I could have given him the correct one. Then when he came back from his patrol car and told me I needed to sign the ticket (he said some other stuff I couldn't understand because he was talking so fast, and I couldn't understand him the second time after I asked him to repeat himself), so when he handed me the clipboard to sign the ticket I told him I would sign it after I read it. At this point he started insisting I sign the ticket immediately, and again I told him I would sign it after I read what I was signing, and he repeatedly insisted I sign it immediately and he was getting louder and angrier so I just signed it and gave it back to him. Then when he left he accidentally dropped his copy of the ticket in the car and returned to his car, I saw the ticket sitting on the seat (he had approached from the passenger side), then saw him in the mirror sprinting back to the car, I put my hands on the wheel in plain sight (I thought he was gonna shoot me at this point) and when he got back to the car reached in, pushed some of my stuff around, grabbed the ticket, and then left. I went home and spent the rest of the day working on my IH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, Sassparilla Kid SASS #8968L said: Since I'm the one who got the ticket I'll add a few more details to the story. One of the first things I noticed was the officer seemed unusually jittery (every other time I've talked to anybody in law enforcement they have always seemed rather cool and collected), and when he spoke it was about a mile a minute. Secondly, when I was looking through the papers in the glove box for the registration I noticed one of the papers had been an old registration from the previous owner that somehow was still in there, and when the officer saw the DMV logo told me to give him the paper, and when I told him it wasn't current he was extremely insistent that I hand him the paper immediately. Upon noticing the name on the (old) registration was not the same as the one on my license, he took a step back, put his hand on his gun, and started very authoritatively asking me "WHO'S CAR IS THIS!?? HOW DID YOU GET IT!??" and then got irritated when I again explained to him that the registration I handed him wasn't current, and if he had waited another second I could have given him the correct one. Then when he came back from his patrol car and told me I needed to sign the ticket (he said some other stuff I couldn't understand because he was talking so fast, and I couldn't understand him the second time after I asked him to repeat himself), so when he handed me the clipboard to sign the ticket I told him I would sign it after I read it. At this point he started insisting I sign the ticket immediately, and again I told him I would sign it after I read what I was signing, and he repeatedly insisted I sign it immediately and he was getting louder and angrier so I just signed it and gave it back to him. Then when he left he accidentally dropped his copy of the ticket in the car and returned to his car, I saw the ticket sitting on the seat (he had approached from the passenger side), then saw him in the mirror sprinting back to the car, I put my hands on the wheel in plain sight (I thought he was gonna shoot me at this point) and when he got back to the car reached in, pushed some of my stuff around, grabbed the ticket, and then left. I went home and spent the rest of the day working on my IH You might want to give his Chief or shift commander a call. Be polite and courteous and let them know what happened it sounds like something they might need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Free Bird 61147 said: Henry I agree with you 100%. Especially the comment from the "moderator". DId it for 42years. Nothing gets people going like a ticket. They all say they support the police etc, but when it comes down to it they really don't. I've had tickets people found things out of order and these Perry Mason's think they have a case. The fact is, they usually lose. Bottom line; you did it, be a man and pay it. Everyone screws up once in a while. No big deal. Just don't say you "back the badge etc." We know your full of B.S. So you think police officers (notice I did not say cops!) are right all the time? Everyone make mistakes. Fact was in the case I cited, I didn't lose. I did my homework and found the officer made a mistake and the judge agreed with me. Has absolutely nothing to do with "backing the badge". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Wow! What an ordeal. Keep us posted. I feel like I know you and wish you well. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Kid-Do as Henry sez..... Might not hurt to take with you to that meeting an H6 printout from DMV to prove your point, on your driving history. That citation can be voided. Good luck & keep us posted. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Trail Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I received a speeding ticket in Scotland in 2014. I was thankful they only got me once. Received it in the mail after we returned to the U.S. I paid without complaint. $65 for 65mph in a 55mph zone and could have been multiples of that so I was fine with it. If you have just cause and proof to fight it, have at it and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeBagodonuts Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Fight it. Show up at the hearing. In MANY cases, the police officer will not be there to offer testimony and the case will be dismissed. In others, the police officer will informally offer you a deal to take 2 mph over the limit (no points) and you both walk away. In the last case, the police officer is there. After reading your jittery comment, after he recites his speech (he'll have a standard testimony such as "I observed, through use of a xyz radar device mounted in my vehicle, a yellow miata being driven by the defendant going 74 miles per hour.), you'll want to grill him on the specifics of the ticket. Did he recall getting a registration card in someone else's name than yours? If so, what was it? (he won't remember the name of the prior owner, or that the car is registered to your father). When he blows the answer, offer the owner's card as evidence. Ask him again where he saw you driving at the stated speed. If he blows the answer, ask him if it couldn't have been in another place (such as 12th or 13th street)? Ask him how he knew he was at 10th street? Is there a sign? Distinctive building? Ask him what the weather was like? Ask him if the top on the car was up or down? Ask him how long he'd been on duty? Ask him whether there were other cars on the road? Ask him how fast he was going? Does the radar equipment connect to his car's speedometer to read the speed of the car, or is it done by some other means? Ask about the calibration of the equipment, both his own speedometer and the radar gun. Ask how long ago the calibration was done, and when the calibration equipment was last calibrated. Ask for calibration certificates. Ask him if he had been trained in the use of the specific radar gun, and by whom? Ask if there is a certification by the manufacturer that the gun can be used in the way he used it (I'd be suspect that the gun could determine a doppler shift with him moving at 55mph and you moving at 55mph in a very small car with a low emissitivity due to the compound curves on the side of the car). Ask him about his use of prescription and non-prescription medication? Ask when the last time he was randomly drug tested? After a few minutes, he'll get angry or overly nervous (both not good). Offer your own testimony. You'll want to sum up your testimony by stating the obvious mistakes on the ticket, the failure of the equipment to register an accurate speed in a line of traffic on a low profile car, and anything else that comes up in testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Goodnight Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Sounds like he was out on a Revenue Generation Patrol or it maybe it was Yellow Car Day. It may sound like a bad joke but shenanigans like these really do go on in police agencies, even big ones like Phoenix PD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 hours ago, JudgeBagodonuts said: Fight it. Show up at the hearing. In MANY cases, the police officer will not be there to offer testimony and the case will be dismissed. In others, the police officer will informally offer you a deal to take 2 mph over the limit (no points) and you both walk away. In the last case, the police officer is there. After reading your jittery comment, after he recites his speech (he'll have a standard testimony such as "I observed, through use of a xyz radar device mounted in my vehicle, a yellow miata being driven by the defendant going 74 miles per hour.), you'll want to grill him on the specifics of the ticket. Did he recall getting a registration card in someone else's name than yours? If so, what was it? (he won't remember the name of the prior owner, or that the car is registered to your father). When he blows the answer, offer the owner's card as evidence. Ask him again where he saw you driving at the stated speed. If he blows the answer, ask him if it couldn't have been in another place (such as 12th or 13th street)? Ask him how he knew he was at 10th street? Is there a sign? Distinctive building? Ask him what the weather was like? Ask him if the top on the car was up or down? Ask him how long he'd been on duty? Ask him whether there were other cars on the road? Ask him how fast he was going? Does the radar equipment connect to his car's speedometer to read the speed of the car, or is it done by some other means? Ask about the calibration of the equipment, both his own speedometer and the radar gun. Ask how long ago the calibration was done, and when the calibration equipment was last calibrated. Ask for calibration certificates. Ask him if he had been trained in the use of the specific radar gun, and by whom? Ask if there is a certification by the manufacturer that the gun can be used in the way he used it (I'd be suspect that the gun could determine a doppler shift with him moving at 55mph and you moving at 55mph in a very small car with a low emissitivity due to the compound curves on the side of the car). Ask him about his use of prescription and non-prescription medication? Ask when the last time he was randomly drug tested? After a few minutes, he'll get angry or overly nervous (both not good). Offer your own testimony. You'll want to sum up your testimony by stating the obvious mistakes on the ticket, the failure of the equipment to register an accurate speed in a line of traffic on a low profile car, and anything else that comes up in testimony. And you will have successfully p***ed off the judge guaranteeing a guilty verdict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Augustus Goodnight said: Sounds like he was out on a Revenue Generation Patrol or it maybe it was Yellow Car Day. It may sound like a bad joke but shenanigans like these really do go on in police agencies, even big ones like Phoenix PD. I don't know where this happened but here in Pa. the municipality gets 25% of the fine excluding the costs of court fees. This means that out of $100 fine the municipality gets $25. Figure out the cost of the officers court pay, parking and mileage and every ticket written costs the agency money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 First of all, reading the situation as stated above does make me feel a little suspicious about the LEO's activity in giving the ticket. BUT, if I were the Judge, I would ask the Kid... "What made you look in your rearview mirror to see the Officer make a U-Turn and turn his lights on"? Your best argument might be: "My fathers Miata won't go 70 miles an hour"..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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