was col Travis really a jerk?

[Trigger Mike]

seems the Alamo paints Travis as a real royal jerk for lack of a better word in a public forum. does anyone know how he really was?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Ask 40, he's old enough to remember.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

Yes he was.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Ask 40, he's old enough to remember.

 

He (Travis) just wouldn't listen when 4-T tried to teach 'im how to behave...

[Subdeacon Joe]

Most powerful people are jerks. Kind of comes with the territory.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Not all Jerks are powerful tho.

[Trigger Mike]

so now my wife sometimes calls me a jerk face(which is an improvement). is it because I'm powerful or just a jerk?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Coming from a wife, one can never be sure.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Ask 40, he's old enough to remember.

Like Birdgun said. He knew Travis better than I did.

 

Glad we were both in Las Vegas losing our money when the Alamo fell.

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

seriously, he filed for relief from debts ( what we now call bankruptcy)

left his wife and daughter to start a new life in TX.

 

His dumb ass move of firing a cannon to answer the Mexican call for surrender

while they ( the mexicans), were under a white flag caused Santa Ana to say

they were not men of honor.....so no prisoners to be taken taken

 

Although the bulk of the Alamo defenders were taken alive they were

executed after the battle,after they again fired upon Mexican officers when a surrender

was called in the long barracks.

 

the real "siege" and battle were not what we learned as children.

But the country needed something to rally around.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

During that period of history, it was common for the whole garrison to be put to the sword if the garrison refused the offer of honorable surrender and the garrison had to be taken by storm. What Santa Ana did by putting the defenders of the Alamo to the sword was not considered dishonorable at the time.

 

Fortunately, Forty Rod and I were in Las Vegas fighting off the women. Well, I was anyway.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Yeah. I ever could figure out why anyone would fight off the women, especially when there are so many guys who couldn't catch one if they tried.

[twelve mile REB]

Well if I remember correctly there were only three of them and two of them shaved the other had a beard and all three when seen from a distance ya couldn't tell if they were walking or rolling.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Travis and Bowie had the opportunity to surrender and leave. Houston had sent an order to the Alamo telling them to destroy the fortification and and leave. But Bowie and then later Travis took that as advice and ignored it!!!. Travis expected reinforcements so he felt surrender wasn't necessary. Once he realized they weren't coming it was too late. He had told Santa Anna to go pound sand.

 

The actual siege and takeover of the Alamo lasted around 4 hours on the 13th day. It wasn't this prolonged battle. Looking at whats left of the Alamo you have to question the defenders thinking. Most of the perimeter walls were around 8' high. And some of the barracks acted as part of the walled fortification. It was intended to keep livestock in, and small bands of the local thieves out. Not to defend against an army of 1,000's.

 

The battle and the loss of the Alamo had little or no effect on the ultimate outcome of the war. But it makes for a great legend.

Ike

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

What would Hollyweed have done without it?

[Boon Doggle]

From the Texas State Historical Society:

 

http://battle of the alamo

[Utah Bob #35998]

The delay caused because Santa Ana wouldn't bypass the fort was actually pretty important to the Republic.

But, jerk or not, the stand was a brave damn thing. Anyone who has visited the Alamo would be ill advised to call any of the defenders jerks.

At least in my presence.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Well if I remember correctly there were only three of them and two of them shaved the other had a beard and all three when seen from a distance ya couldn't tell if they were walking or rolling.

Jealousy is such an ugly thing in someone like you who seems like such a nice person otherwise.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I remember Forty Rod one evening got pinned down by a blonde that was a perfect 38"- 24"- 36".

 

 

 

 

And, her other leg was exactly the same.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I've heard rumors of Forty and his night life.

 

I also heard that Birdgun was there on a Baptist Mission trip and he tried to rescue 40 from the wicked wiles of this world.

 

Just a rumor, of course.

 

 

..........Widder

[Cemetery]

Isnt Phil Collins a big time Alamo history buff?

[Noz]

As in every armed conflict, the victors write the history.

[Henry T Harrison]

As in every armed conflict, the victors write the history.

This time the losers wrote it. That is why it's so inaccurate

[G. I. Tarpicker, SASS #998]

There is an old Pennsylvania Dutch proverb which applies here, "The truth is still the truth whether you believe it or not." Different versions of a battle like the Alamo will always be with us, perhaps the exact truth will never be known. OTOH the various stories and accounts, whether true or not, are a wonderful part of the Texas legend and history. -- GIT

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I attended the SASS convention when it was in San Antonio and toured what is left of the Alamo. It gives you a different perspective on what happened.

 

Phil Collins did own a bunch of certified Alamo relics. He has since donated them to the historical society.

 

There also was a thing about Crocket being captured and taken to Mexico. It was based on some obscure sentence in a letter.

 

G.I. Tarpicker is right. Who knows what was said or what actions actually happened. We do know the Texan's stood their ground and sacrificed their lives for the cause they believed in.

[Trigger Mike]

being as i was born in Texas i can vouch that Texans have a habit of standing their ground even when faced with insurmountable odds. Discretion may be the better part of valor but Texans are not known for discretion, just the valor part.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

So TM, in your original post you said that "the Alamo paints Travis as a real royal jerk..."

 

Was that one of the Alamo movies? A particular book or set of books? General lore...?

 

I've wondered about the man myownself... but having grown up in Texas, I do believe that if I'd ever said such as a kid I woulda gotten beat up.

[Trigger Mike]

i watched the John Wayne Alamo movie again this week and the movie really paints him as an arrogant jerk for starters. in the movie Bowie wants to cut and run which in handset would make more sense that defending a short walled mission. the movie also paints bowie as indecisive and crocket as along for the ride. for years i enjoyed that movie., i don't know why i suddenly decided to evaluate it in detail

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Why would someone of Davy Crockett's reputation, experience, etc..... ever succumb to such a task unless he truly believed in the cause with a lot of respect for the man in charge...Travis.

 

Crockett and his fellow Tennesseans knew what was going on. And they must have had some respect for Travis to 'bet their lives' on his decision to make a stand at the Alamo.

 

My uneducated guess is that Travis must have been one heck of a man who displayed leadership with authority, yet also deserving of respect of those who stood with him at the Alamo.

 

Doesn't sound like a jerk to me.

 

Besides, when I watched the movie and he fired that cannon during the white flag episode, I was already thinking the same thing as I would have done. I would have induced more of a 'guerrilla' fighting tactics against the Mexican army, but ya still got to admire that tactic of defiance.

 

 

..........Widder

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

Crockett was there because he was promised a role in the new government of the republic,, he was seeking a fresh start after things in Tenn soured for him.

As to his heroic stand, in reality he and his men (what was left), ran into the mission and sought "sanctuary" not to be critical I would have too........

the Mexican soldiers dragged them out and Crockett was presented to Santa Ana who ordered him immediately executed.

he was run thru by one of the Mexican officers.

 

as to the men knowing what was going on, they were until the Mexicans were over the wall convinced Fannon then later Houston himself was coming with

a relief force.

 

PS anyone firing a weapon any weapon let alone a cannon while under a white flag is no soldier, and deserves no praise

Edited January 6, 2017 by Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Crockett was there because he was promised a role in the new government of the republic,, he was seeking a fresh start after things in Tenn soured for him.

As to his heroic stand, in reality he and his men (what was left), ran into the mission and sought "sanctuary" not to be critical I would have too........

the Mexican soldiers dragged them out and Crockett was presented to Santa Ana who ordered him immediately executed.

he was run thru by one of the Mexican officers.

 

as to the men knowing what was going on, they were until the Mexicans were over the wall convinced Fannon then later Houston himself was coming with

a relief force.

 

PS anyone firing a weapon any weapon let alone a cannon while under a white flag is no soldier, and deserves no praise

 

Praise or not, if it actually occurred, I don't think Travis was looking for praise or admiration.

Heck, I was just commenting on the movie.

 

Anyhow, the story of the Alamo has been told in a handful of ways. So how do we know the real details of what we see from Hollywood. As mentioned above, there are stories of Davy Crockett's death in various manners, even taken back to Mexico.

 

Do we really know if Crockett pulled out his fiddle and played one evening that helped detour a cannon barrage? Hollywood sure made it look nice.

 

 

..........Widder

Edited January 7, 2017 by Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

but Texans are not known for discretion, just the valor part.

[Tinpan McGurk]

The Travis Letter

Commandancy of the The Alamo

Bejar, Feby. 24th. 1836

To the People of Texas & All Americans in the World—

Fellow Citizens & compatriots—

I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna — I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man — The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch — The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country — Victory or Death.

 

P. S. The Lord is on our side — When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn — We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels and got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

William Barrett Travis.

Lt. Col. comdt.

 

 

The letter is in the collection of the Texas State Library and Archives......

 

 

Tinpan McGurk Sass 82891

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Using Hollyweed as a foundation for your belief in anything, is a rather dangerous idea.

 

These are the people that gave us flying cars, twelve shot six shooters, and Harry Potter.

[Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943]

"Three Roads to the Alamo" is a good read that puts Travis, Bowie and Crockett in the proper perspective.