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yes mccanless, i used the wrong term before.... but my RO was using it that way so thats how i wrote it... is there any style that lets you hold gun with one hand and use the off hand to thumb the hammer?

Any category that is NOT a "duelist" style category...so I'm leaving out Frontiersman, Frontier Cartridge Duelist, Duelist, Sr. Duelist, and Gunfighter. (I may be forgetting one or two). Any others (the bulk of the categories). are categorized as two-handed shooting categories. They all allow you to support the gun and shooting hand, with the non-shooting hand. In which case it is recommended that you cock the hammer with the non-shooting thumb.

 

So, Category " that lets you hold gun with one hand and use the off hand to thumb the hammer?"

 

49'er

Buckaroo

B-Western... when not shooting it Gunfighter

Senior

Silver Senior

Cattle Baron

Cowboy

Classic Cowboy

Elder Statesman

Frontier Cartridge

Wrangler

Young Guns

 

What categories were you thinking of shooting in?

 

I think there's been a confusion of terms that has led you to misunderstand some of what you've been seeing.

 

edit - that's one of the reasons for this forum. You can ask questions, for the most part we'll try to give you a good answer. Anyway, welcome to the fire, pull up a log and have a seat.

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My alias is Tracker Jack Daniels, but you can call me Tracker.

 

Two handed shooters are referred to as traditional shooters. The Traditional category went away several years ago along with the Modern category. Shooters from these categories had to move into either age based categories, B-Western, or Frontier Cartridge. If you read the descriptions for these categories they will state that the revolvers can be shot in any SASS legal manner, or either one handed or two handed.

 

Frontier Cartridge pg.15 of the Shooters Handbook, B-Western pg. 16 of the Shooters Handbook, Age based categories pg. 13 of the Shooters Handbook.

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ok teacker, where in the manual does it explain this? not being sarcastic here i really want to read it cause i been through this manual and i havent seen it. is it under a style? age group? page number would be great.

Shooters hand book page 25, number 20

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Are you sure you have not been shooting with B-Western shooters? The base dress for the category is not real fancy. You have jumped to a very big assumption here that every two hand shooter is cheating. You would benefit greatly from and ROI course. An RO course is a good place to learn about SASS, how to be safe, the rules of the game, and how to be a good posse member.

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yul lose, it says in the book it is not allowed but i see tons of shooters doing it.. and i dont know why they are letting them? off hand is coming over and thumbing back the hammer and the book says not allowed, but yet it goes on.

Maybe we're talking apples and oranges here. Using two hands to hold and fire the six shooter is perfectly legal using the offhand to thumb back the hammer is perfectly legal while holding the TRIGGER in the firing position with the strong hand is perfectly legal in every category except gunfighter, duelist and classic cowboy and frontiersman, those categories must be shot one handed no two hand grip. At every club that I shoot at if someone jumps categories by going to a two handed grip they hear about it very quickly and it's a procedural penalty.

 

Stonecoldkane could you possibly be talking about shooters doing this in the categories that allow it because something doesn't sound right in your explanation. I don't know of ANY club that would let a duelist get away with using two hands to manipulate the same gun.

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Are you referring to fanning the gun not being allowed could you post the reference or the actual paragraph that you are referring to?

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I'm still trying to figure out what Kane has a problem with. Is it the fact that the shooter is using the support hand thumb to cock the revolver or the fact that the shooter is slip hammering?

 

If it is the latter, I sure hope we never have a "slip hammer" category because I cannot tell the difference between a fast shooter who does not slip hammer and one who does.

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Hi Folks,

 

I think intent is pretty obvious when the shooter dumps something like 8 rounds on one target after earning a P and the sequence was something else, like LW or 3-2-2-3 or 2-1-2-2-1-2...

 

Regard

 

Allie

I agree.

When I started out in this game, that was a common practice where I shot often. "He's already screwed up, just dump them".

I don't really care for that kind of approach personally. I prefer to just attempt to finish correctly, rather than go to the dump. Maybe the dump would save me 1 to 1.5 seconds, maybe?? Not worth it to me for a couple of reasons.

With all that said, I've done crazy stuff during a stage after blowing up...(shooting shotgun or rifle from hip, Going gunfighter, etc.) But I do expect any appropriate penalty to apply.

Regards,

Ringer

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I agree.

When I started out in this game, that was a common practice where I shot often. "He's already screwed up, just dump them".

I don't really care for that kind of approach personally. I prefer to just attempt to finish correctly, rather than go to the dump. Maybe the dump would save me 1 to 1.5 seconds, maybe?? Not worth it to me for a couple of reasons.

With all that said, I've done crazy stuff during a stage after blowing up...(shooting shotgun or rifle from hip, Going gunfighter, etc.) But I do expect any appropriate penalty to apply.

Regards,

Ringer

+1!

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I'm still trying to figure out what Kane has a problem with. Is it the fact that the shooter is using the support hand thumb to cock the revolver or the fact that the shooter is slip hammering?

 

If it is the latter, I sure hope we never have a "slip hammer" category because I cannot tell the difference between a fast shooter who does not slip hammer and one who does.

I think he is objecting to the shooter using his support hand to cock the revolver.

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At monthly match today. Pistols were 5 falling plates, then a dump target for any remain grounds after plates were down. Only plates left standing or mosses on the dump were counted as misses.

 

After joking with a pard at the loading table, I shot the 1st 4, then dumped 5 into the ground, then shot the 5 the target. It was faster, but I stood the risk if not knocking down the 5th plate. After everybody laughed, decided I should get "spirit of the Gamer" award.

 

 

I would not do this at a major match, was just giving fun at a monthly. But question is would that be a SOG?

I would have given you a "P".

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and smoke, the directors over here( who also run the state) thought the slip was illegal, and thought there was no such category as double duelist, and thought gunfighter you had to alternate shots..... so not every one who runs things at a shoot knows all the rules and is not always right.

Me thinks you need to find some other directors who know the rules. And you can slip hammer shooting duelist or two handed, or even gunfighter. Using both hands on the gun and using your offhand thumb to cock is not illegal in most categories.

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Stonecoldkane - Have you take'n any RO1 & RO2 courses yet?

I strongly suggest you do ASAP. ;) They will go a long way into you having a better understanding of this game.

The rules that are in place-Are the rules. -_-

 

OLG

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Something else to think about Stonecoldkane: a lot of thought and hard work has gone into creating our present system of rules.

 

Until you have a better understanding of what the rules are, and why they exist I suggest taking an ROI and/or ROII class and using the wire to get questions answered. Attacking the current system, and/or advocating drastic changes to it won't go over well.

 

What you're advocating in this thread goes directly against the rules, and against the way the vast majority of two handed shooters (myself included) shoot. Nothing wrong with that other than you're going to get shot down quite a bit, which may not be fun for you.

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Any category that is NOT a "duelist" style category...so I'm leaving out Frontiersman, Frontier Cartridge Duelist, Duelist, Sr. Duelist, and Gunfighter. (I may be forgetting one or two). Any others (the bulk of the categories). are categorized as two-handed shooting categories. They all allow you to support the gun and shooting hand, with the non-shooting hand. In which case it is recommended that you cock the hammer with the non-shooting thumb.

 

So, Category " that lets you hold gun with one hand and use the off hand to thumb the hammer?"

 

49'er

Buckaroo

B-Western... when not shooting it Gunfighter

Senior

Silver Senior

Cattle Baron

Cowboy

Classic Cowboy

Elder Statesman

Frontier Cartridge

Wrangler

Young Guns

 

What categories were you thinking of shooting in?

 

I think there's been a confusion of terms that has led you to misunderstand some of what you've been seeing.

 

edit - that's one of the reasons for this forum. You can ask questions, for the most part we'll try to give you a good answer. Anyway, welcome to the fire, pull up a log and have a seat.

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I would have given you a "P".

I'd argue that call!

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Then I'd consider a SOG.

Would make more sense. But I'm not sure if it's a SOG or not. I think it is nominally faster, no risk of a miss on the dump target, but there is a chance of missing on the last KD. Again, I would not attempt it at a big match, but it was kind of fun to do.

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I would have given you a "P".

+1

I know this was done in jest, however I would interpret those directions to mean dump target to ONLY be engaged after ALL plates are down thus the P...but no SOG because you were not trying to gain an advantage.

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+1

I know this was done in jest, however I would interpret those directions to mean dump target to ONLY be engaged after ALL plates are down thus the P...but no SOG because you were not trying to gain an advantage.

 

To clarify, I didn't dump on the static target, but rather into the ground, basically shooting right next to the 1 remaining KD until the last shot.

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Sounds like a no call to me. Unless you tell me you did it on purpose those rounds would look a lot like misses on the KD, which don't count.

+1. But, tellin' me you did it on purpose would be grounds for the SOG penalty.

 

Stonecoldkane, Using the support hand thumb to cock the hammer is usually the VERY first thing I'll tell a new shooter they SHOULD be doing to be even remotely competitive. As was I, when I first started back in '85, (when there were NO one-handed categories). Shooting duelist (which I personally detest, but must, because I shoot Frontiersman). I have, in the past... maybe once or twice... slip-hammered... un-intentionally for certain, but... it can be done.

 

IMO, there are usually two competitions going on at any match that awards an overall, one for overall, and one for category... any shooter that shoots in one of the one-handed categories, unless they are at the VERY top of the game, probably doesn't expect to be competitive for the overall win... same with any of the BP categories... the additional challenges in those categories are hard to overcome. My hat's off to ANY one-handed shooter who is competitive in the overall on a State, Regional or National level.

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Hoss's example stage is nothing more than ten rifle on five plate rack targets, no miss other than what is left standing. Do away with the dump target.

 

I now see this arrangement a few times each year at monthlies. When the stage writer is asked if his intent was as described above, he usually pauses, thinks and says no. We then ask him his intent and shoot it that way. That asking doesn't happen at bigger matches, or is forgotten about and you will have posses shoot it as described above.

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Hoss's example stage is nothing more than ten rifle on five plate rack targets, no miss other than what is left standing. Do away with the dump target.

 

I now see this arrangement a few times each year at monthlies. When the stage writer is asked if his intent was as described above, he usually pauses, thinks and says no. We then ask him his intent and shoot it that way. That asking doesn't happen at bigger matches, or is forgotten about and you will have posses shoot it as described above.

. The first thing I always cover on posse marshal walk through a is that my intent should never be called into question. Either I wrote it in a way which allows you to do something, or I didn't. I always tell them that if it is safe, legal within the rules, and fits within the language I used in the stage instructions, the answer is yes. My stages have lots of options and this really reduces questions and ultimately disagreements.
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Would make more sense. But I'm not sure if it's a SOG or not. I think it is nominally faster, no risk of a miss on the dump target, but there is a chance of missing on the last KD. Again, I would not attempt it at a big match, but it was kind of fun to do.

One year at WR they had the set you identified. You could not believe how many shooters missed the last knockdown 4 or 5 times before hitting it, not needing to hit the dump target.

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One year at WR they had the set you identified. You could not believe how many shooters missed the last knockdown 4 or 5 times before hitting it, not needing to hit the dump target.

I have never seen some one miss the last plate rack target 4-5 times in a row before hitting it. I suspect it was intentional, gaming it, but full filled the scenario .

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I may have top set up a timer and see how much (if any) difference there is. shoot it 10 times each way to get a big enough sample size to see if it really matters.

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I may have top set up a timer and see how much (if any) difference there is. shoot it 10 times each way to get a big enough sample size to see if it really matters.

Every hundredth of a second, which could equal one rank point matters.

 

People spend hundreds of dollars in equipment modifications to reduce tenths of a second for a stage and even for the entire match.

 

People spend countless hours of dry firing and practice time & ammo to reduce their times by tenths.

 

If a person is satisfied with being within a few tenths or seconds for a stage, then it doesn't matter.

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. The first thing I always cover on posse marshal walk through a is that my intent should never be called into question. Either I wrote it in a way which allows you to do something, or I didn't. I always tell them that if it is safe, legal within the rules, and fits within the language I used in the stage instructions, the answer is yes. My stages have lots of options and this really reduces questions and ultimately disagreements.

+1

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Bisley Joe rides again??

:ph34r:

 

:P

 

 

BTW - Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl categories require the revolvers to be shot DUELIST (or Double Duelist) style.

"Slip-hammering" (legal) is NOT the same as FANNING (SDQ)

(both of these are covered in the rulebooks)

 

I can tell you that the first SOG penalty awarded to a shooter at EoT was well-deserved, with NO DOUBT as to the shooter's intent.

 

...and I would recommend that some of y'all take SHB/RO1/RO2 refreshers before posting on this forum.

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I'm curious: if someone legitimately forgets a particular shooting sequence, how can they earn a SOG for shooting any sequence?

 

The shooter has already earned theirowndangself a 'P' so where would the 'competitive advantage' be determined?

 

 

..........Widder

 

Is there an accepted thing to do when you mess up a shooting sequence? I have read through this thread a couple of times and the answers vary.

 

I'm a shooter returning to CAS after a several year layoff. I am pretty likely to mess up a sequence or two in the coming months :) So it sounds like dumping the remaining rounds on one target could possibly bring a SOG penalty with some TO's. So what should a shooter do when you just realized........oops......I did that wrong.......?

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Hi SJS,

 

I hope our paths cross again!

 

About the only thing you can do and not risk a SOG P is to "muddle through" with something close to the scenario.

 

PWB mentioned a SOG at EOT. He's told that story many times to explain SOG. The shooter got a P, dumped, then admitted doing it to negate the effects of the P

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Is there an accepted thing to do when you mess up a shooting sequence? I have read through this thread a couple of times and the answers vary.

 

I'm a shooter returning to CAS after a several year layoff. I am pretty likely to mess up a sequence or two in the coming months :) So it sounds like dumping the remaining rounds on one target could possibly bring a SOG penalty with some TO's. So what should a shooter do when you just realized........oops......I did that wrong.......?

 

 

I've had to just stop and say to TO - what is this sequence anyway? If he/she says double-tap sweep, I restart where I left off and do as best I can, double tapping what's left.

 

If TO isn't responsive, I just shoot a continuous Nevada sweep. If that's not enough target changes in what I'm shooting, then go ahead and SOG me. :P

 

Good luck, GJ

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Is there an accepted thing to do when you mess up a shooting sequence? I have read through this thread a couple of times and the answers vary.

 

I'm a shooter returning to CAS after a several year layoff. I am pretty likely to mess up a sequence or two in the coming months :) So it sounds like dumping the remaining rounds on one target could possibly bring a SOG penalty with some TO's. So what should a shooter do when you just realized........oops......I did that wrong.......?

I try to follow the instructions as best I can. If I get so fouled up in my head that I don't know which way is up, I gust go to a Nevada sweep. I think juast dumping on 1 target (unless scenario calls for a dump) would warrant an SOG if it was done to make up the time for the P. Hard to judge intent, so if yo stay with Nevada sweep you will be OK.

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