Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The best is the one you have in front of you I started out on a Lee Classic Turret..............now use a Hornady LNL AP.....and a Star Lubsizer Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Hornady L-N-L progressive with the Hornady BP measure in place of the smokeless measure. Works great, and don't have to take case off to put powder in the case or use dippers or any of that other jazz. Like DJ, I change to the smokeless measure for smokeless loads. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee I might have to go take a look at Tyrel's L-N-L and see if I can get along with it then. I use a RCBS Pro 2000 for BP (Goex 2F) or the occasional smokeless. Only a couple problems, APP was too dusty, it clogged the powder measure. I see on another thread that may be fixed by a new formulation of APP. And Pinnacle 2F was too coarse, it jammed in the tube, so I had to charge by hand. But even then I put a funnel on the feed-through die and charged on the press. I have wired the press to a ground rod to prevent any static build up. Everytime I see someone talking about the dangers of static when reloading BP I wonder why they don't ground the press. Seems like it wouldn't be a horrible idea for smokeless either. The important thing to take from this thread is that there are many diverse ways to successfully load black powder, the one True Powder. There's no mystery to loading black powder ammo. Just don't smoke while you do it. There are red, blue and green presses, primers from a lot of different manufacturers and a genuinely welcome selection of good black powder brands to choose from. I won't go into bullets here because I own the Big Lube®LLC business and it's considered improper to advertise my wares here. Just remember to load sober, don't smoke and minimize distractions. DD-MDA Kinda what I was starting to think. Lots of different machines listed. Common theme for the machines used as progressives though... And I don't smoke, or drink... So I should be ok there :lol: As long as I can keep the 5 year old out from under foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One of the things that always comes up is the speed with which one can load. The progressive guys point out that they can load thousands in an evening. Well, I can and do load tons of smokeless ammo on my dillon 550s. But I've never gotten comfortable with 1/2 pound of black powder, a class a explosive, a foot from my face in the powder hopper. Intuitively, I know that it is not a dangerous practice. But, I am fine with only being able to load 300 or 400 in an evening. I've developed a routine that makes loading on my turret easy. And, I relax and make a nice evening of it. I shoot a lot of black powder ammo. I shoot black powder every week, and while I shoot cap guns more often than not, I do keep a supply of .45 Schofield, .44 Russian, and .38 Special black powder rounds on hand. So, pick out the one that works for you. Time you have to reload, and money spent on the machine are definitely considerations. One thing to remember is that these machines and dies and etc. hold their value well, so no need to 2nd mortgage the house to get started. You can always upgrade and get most of your investment back. Shooting is a hobby -- ya gotta have fun! Just my 2 cents --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 One of the things that always comes up is the speed with which one can load. The progressive guys point out that they can load thousands in an evening. Well, I can and do load tons of smokeless ammo on my dillon 550s. But I've never gotten comfortable with 1/2 pound of black powder, a class a explosive, a foot from my face in the powder hopper. Intuitively, I know that it is not a dangerous practice. But, I am fine with only being able to load 300 or 400 in an evening. I've developed a routine that makes loading on my turret easy. And, I relax and make a nice evening of it. I shoot a lot of black powder ammo. I shoot black powder every week, and while I shoot cap guns more often than not, I do keep a supply of .45 Schofield, .44 Russian, and .38 Special black powder rounds on hand. So, pick out the one that works for you. Time you have to reload, and money spent on the machine are definitely considerations. One thing to remember is that these machines and dies and etc. hold their value well, so no need to 2nd mortgage the house to get started. You can always upgrade and get most of your investment back. Shooting is a hobby -- ya gotta have fun! Just my 2 cents --Dawg I travel a lot. A whole lot. So the less time spent reloading the better, for me. I'd be happy being able to set up a press, and leave it. When I have time to reload, go crank 200 rounds out in an hour and change, and be ready for a match. The simpler the process, the less likely I am to mess up something I won't be doing as often as most of y'all do. Momma is understanding, but I miss my family when I travel, so the less time I spend out in the shop the better. My son has no issue joining me out there, but it's either too hot or too cold for Momma usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidio Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just asking to be clear. Are you using real black powder or a subs? I see so many people say black powder when they are really using a substitute. I be using Goex FFF & Wolf primers with 250g RNFP bullets that are lubed in my own special mix. And I don't use an overpowder card in my bullets either, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Grounding only the press will not eliminate static discharge. The operator should wear an anti-static wrist strap with the wrist strap ground cord connected to the press. Using an XL650 with press mounted power measure I'd worry more about a priming system explosion than a static discharge igniting black powder in the hopper. For a static discharge arc to ignite a grain of black powder the energy released has to heat the grain to the ignition temperature. Also, cleanliness of the press & bench is very important for safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 My version. Dillon SQD to resize, prime and bell, 500+ at a time, 38 and 44-40. Later when I'm ready to load, using a loading block, I drop 3F KIK from a Lyman 55 into 50 cases and top the powder with Cream of Wheat for revolvers or 1/16" vegetable wad for rifle, and place the bullets on the cases. Back to the SQD for seating the bullets and crimping. Results in safe production and reasonably fast speed. Just Sayin' AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Everytime I see someone talking about the dangers of static when reloading BP I wonder why they don't ground the press. Seems like it wouldn't be a horrible idea for smokeless either. Howdy Grounding the press may give peace of mind, but it accomplishes nothing. Every time you move, you develop a static charge on your body. You see it in extreme when you shuffle your feet on a rug and touch a doorknob on a dry day. You will even feel the spark. But in reality, every time you move, you are generating a static charge. Then when you touch the grounded press, the charge jumps from you to the press and then to ground. And there is a spark every single time you do it. You may not feel or see the spark, but it is there. As your hand gets close to the press, the diminishing distance between you and the press, allows the spark to overcome the insulating effect of the air and a spark jumps from you to the press every single time you touch it. Wearing a wrist strap and grounding the entire work station is the only way to totally avoid a spark. If everything is at the same potential, there is no opportunity for a charge to develop, so no spark will jump. Trust me on this, I worked in the electronics industry for many years, and static discharge is a huge concern around delicate electronic components. Personally, I try not to load BP on a really dry day, I try to do it when there is some humidity in the air, which helps drain off static charges before they build very high. Other than that, I have never felt the need to wear a wrist strap and ground the entire work station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 My press is mounted on a wooden bench and I'm on a bare concrete floor. Would that imply me and press would be on same potential? Or would I need to be connected to the press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog McGee Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Grounding only the press will not eliminate static discharge. The operator should wear an anti-static wrist strap with the wrist strap ground cord connected to the press. Using an XL650 with press mounted power measure I'd worry more about a priming system explosion than a static discharge igniting black powder in the hopper. For a static discharge arc to ignite a grain of black powder the energy released has to heat the grain to the ignition temperature. Also, cleanliness of the press & bench is very important for safety. +1 I load all my BP Goex 2f on a Dillon RL550B using the original powder measure. 2F meters fine and IF you want to use a filler ,use foam caulk backing rod. Cut it in short lengths so it will compress the powder. You just place it in the cartridge before the bullet, just don't omit or forget that step ! Best way is to load'em up so the bullet will compress the powder about 1/8 " . FIRE and SMOKE !!!! The only way to go !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 +1 I load all my BP Goex 2f on a Dillon RL550B using the original powder measure. 2F meters fine and IF you want to use a filler ,use foam caulk backing rod. Cut it in short lengths so it will compress the powder. You just place it in the cartridge before the bullet, just don't omit or forget that step ! Best way is to load'em up so the bullet will compress the powder about 1/8 " . FIRE and SMOKE !!!! The only way to go !!!!! I planned to use styrofoam , if I decide not to do full cases. Reenactors use it in place of bullets. As soon as the powder ignites it goes away, like magic. You pick up that backing rod at a construction supply outfit or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hornady L-N-L progressive with the Hornady BP measure in place of the smokeless measure. Works great, and don't have to take case off to put powder in the case or use dippers or any of that other jazz. Like DJ, I change to the smokeless measure for smokeless loads. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I planned to use styrofoam , if I decide not to do full cases. Reenactors use it in place of bullets. As soon as the powder ignites it goes away, like magic. You pick up that backing rod at a construction supply outfit or? Any building supply outlet. I buy mine at Home Deport or Lowes. I'm frugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaquero Muskadeuro Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I use a Dillon 650, but I break the loading down. I size/deprime, prime/bell the top, and then pull the case and set it to the side. Once I've rolled out 50 or 100 I'll add powder and filler. The last step is to set it back in the press, seat the bullet, and then crimp. Sort of semi-progressive. BS I have followed Barry Sloe with a few exception on a Dillon 650, in station one sizing/ depriming die, in station 2 I use a Lee Precision Flow Through Powder die and attach a 24 inch drop tube. Drop your BP then filler. Station 3 empty and then bullet seating die station 4, crimp die station 5. You can progress through your machine without pulling shell and setting them aside then replacing them. The idea is not mine, I came across it on You Tube and adapted to fit my machine. Duelist1954, Mike Beliveau does excellent video of all manners of old west/civil war firearms, etc. One more thing, do not let the shell plate just spring to the next station while pulling the handle or you will have filler and/or BP thrown everywhere. Place a finger lightly on the shell plate as it rotate and gently let it lock in the next position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tame Bill #30699 Life Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Dillon 1050 for 38 S&W Special & 38 Long Colt using Goex Olde Enysford 3fg Dillon SL900 for 12 gauge shot shells using Goex 2fg Dillon 650 for 45-70 using Goex Olde Enysford 2fg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayrock, SASS #64093 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Maryann long term. Ginger short term! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Does ANYONE actually know first hand of anyone having black powder go off from static electricity...I didn't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gran'pa Jef Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I use a 550 but drop powder seperate. I do the same because Dillon powder measurer are not static electricity proof, and that's dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'm the oddball. I load on a lee Turret. I scoop out the powder with lee dippers. I save my dillons for smokeless. Like I said, I'm the oddball. --Dawg Ditto. I guess there's two oddballs. Well, three if you count him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidio Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Here's a link to some test done with static electricity. Judge fer yerownself.... ...... http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidio Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Utah, thar be more'n of us than you be a reckonin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Ditto. I guess there's two oddballs. Well, three if you count him.. "Woof woof!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 What's the general consensus on a "best machine" for reloading BP? There is no "best" For efficiency and speed: * Dillon 550B with separate chargers for black and smokeless * Lee Perfect Powder Measure or old Lyman #5 for large caliber BPCR reloads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Does ANYONE actually know first hand of anyone having black powder go off from static electricity...I didn't think so... I can only testify that City Slicker (former SASS member from way back ) was supposed to have been injured loading BP in a Dillon (around 2003 timeframe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I've loaded and shoot nothing but the real BP. I don't use fillers but did load some 44wcf with the backing rod and then opened them up after 2 months to find the rod almost gone from a chemical reaction. There are some things that I would like to tell those who use the Lyman BP measures. I owned both the Lyman and RCBS BP measures. They both work well. I liked the way the RCBS comes with a meter rod that lets you know about the level of powder in the reservoir. I drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the Lyman lid and inserted a 1/4 inch wooden dowel rod with a heavy fender washer attached to the bottom with JB Weld. It rides on top of the powder and tells me how much powder is left. Another Idea for those who use the Lee Turret to reload BP as I do. I use a Dillon 450 Powder Die on stage two with my RCBS BP measure attached. It requires the use of the 450 powder die and the adapter sold by Dillon. This set up requires you also purchase the case mouth expander for your caliber. It's fast and easy as you just keep the cartridge on the press from start to finish. The 450 powder die is number K95-20308 for $21.95 and the adapter is K95-20029 for $22.95 This also requires you use the caliber expander. Once you have these parts you can use your BP measure set up on any press you use. Later David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone Tex Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I've seen a bunch of people say that you need to compress the powder 1/8 when you seat the bullet. Exactly how does one measure that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Tombstone Tex, on 18 Mar 2015 - 9:28 PM, said: I've seen a bunch of people say that you need to compress the powder 1/8 when you seat the bullet. Exactly how does one measure that? Measure how much of your bullet is inside the case when seated. Now transfer this measurment to a wooden dowel. Subtract the ammount of compression from this mark and make a new one. In your case the second mark would be 1/8 in closer to the end of the dowel than the first mark. Now fill the case with powder a little at a time. Each time insert the dowel until it rests on top of the powder. Keep adding powder and rechecking the height until the mark on the dowel is even with the top of the case. In this case it is the mark closest to the end of the dowel Now seat the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sarge Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Ditto. I guess there's two oddballs. Well, three if you count him.. UB - Are you the one in the fez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I've seen a bunch of people say that you need to compress the powder 1/8 when you seat the bullet. Exactly how does one measure that? Howdy Tex, look here at DJs' Photo Illustration. Good Luck http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,18257.0.html Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Here's a link to some test done with static electricity. Judge fer yerownself.... ...... http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html That was an interesting article, checked the updates as well. Appears we need to make a considerable effort to blow up our ownselves while loading-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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