Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Bro King, Blackfoot stated in his OP that it was a required shot, which help me think is where the 'P' was earned. Of course, I have been wrong a few times on things such as this. Best regards ..........Widder U R ryt, Widder.. it iz reedn compree henshun airror. KEE WURRD "REQUIRED"..... now.... let's hear what the stage instructions ACTUALLY said....because if they didn't say REQUIRED as we often find out in these here MAKE THE CALL threads then it's a miss only;. My apologies to the esteemed SASS WAHR body. I was on only 1/2 cup at the time due to too much dancin' last night.... and the dang shoot being cancelled this morning due to 8" of wet, spring snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Howdy JEDI Jefro. I'm thinking it was because OF his 'P' is the reason he also earned the Miss. The Miss can't cause the 'P' but is it possible for a 'P' to earn a Miss, as in this particular circumstance. Just wondering....... and waiting for PWB to set Half of us straight. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 WHAT....8" of snow? WOW. its sunny and nearly 70 here in E.TN this afternoon. Plus (rubbin it in) we had a good match yesterday up at Copperhead Joe's 'Ponderosa Pines'. Plus, I shot CLEAN.....which don't happen often enough for this ole GF. Here's wishin you some good spring weather...SOON! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harman Hammer, SASS #20214 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 A miss can not cause a P, but a P can cause a miss. Which in this case came first the P (shooter did not reload as per stage instructions) then the miss for the unfired round. What say ye PWB? Awww Its Sunday give the guy a day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe LaFives #5481 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 ROI page 24 "10- SECOND PENALTIES Procedural Penalties Any unintentional procedural errors caused by “brain fade,” confusion, ignorance, or mistakes (not to exceed one for any given stage). • Failure to attempt to fire a firearm. • Failure to attempt a prop or stage maneuver...." I would say a Procedural and a miss - 10+5 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 A miss can not cause a P, but a P can cause a miss. Which in this case came first the P (shooter did not reload as per stage instructions) then the miss for the unfired round. What say ye PWB? Awww Its Sunday give the guy a day off. I'm with Loco Notion on this one....P was earned first and then the miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Howdy JEDI Jefro. I'm thinking it was because OF his 'P' is the reason he also earned the Miss. The Miss can't cause the 'P' but is it possible for a 'P' to earn a Miss, as in this particular circumstance. Just wondering....... and waiting for PWB to set Half of us straight. ..........Widder Howdy Wldder, I agree, if it's a P it's also a miss. I'm still leaning to just a miss, but if the reload is considered a stage manuver then it's a P + a miss. I'd like to see the real stage instructions. Being interesting what PW says. Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy ok, now I'm leaning towards a P + miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Folks, In case you think I'm being pompous, please forgive me for posting this. In the first college class I took that made a life-long impression on me, Business Communications, the instructor told us to be brief if we want to make a point. Otherwise, the reader could lose interest and not realize the point of the discussion. So, according to that philosophy, a game should have rules that don't require us to go through a convoluted flow-chart of potential calls (thought processes) that must occur instantaneously. KISS! (Keep it simple silly ;-) ) With that in mind, I hope the call on this will be simple and easy to understand. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 P and a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.T Chambers, SASS#76185 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Folks, In case you think I'm being pompous, please forgive me for posting this. In the first college class I took that made a life-long impression on me, Business Communications, the instructor told us to be brief if we want to make a point. Otherwise, the reader could lose interest and not realize the point of the discussion. So, according to that philosophy, a game should have rules that don't require us to go through a convoluted flow-chart of potential calls (thought processes) that must occur instantaneously. KISS! (Keep it simple silly ;-) ) With that in mind, I hope the call on this will be simple and easy to understand. Regards, Allie Mo I think it pretty straightforward Ms. Allie. The shooter failed to execute the stage instructions as instructed which assesses a Procedural, and he obviously did not hit the 11th target which assesses a miss. 10+5 MTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Folks, In case you think I'm being pompous, please forgive me for posting this. In the first college class I took that made a life-long impression on me, Business Communications, the instructor told us to be brief if we want to make a point. Otherwise, the reader could lose interest and not realize the point of the discussion. So, according to that philosophy, a game should have rules that don't require us to go through a convoluted flow-chart of potential calls (thought processes) that must occur instantaneously. KISS! (Keep it simple silly ;-) ) With that in mind, I hope the call on this will be simple and easy to understand. Regards, Allie Mo What? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's a P and a Miss...come on folks. P for not reloading... The 11th target wasnt' hit... The miss did not cause the P. The P also resulted in a target not being engaged...therefore a Miss. Oy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I agree with Phantom and others. The step by step requirement was to relaod 1 round and shoot the 11th target. The reload was not done. hense the P ( the shooter railed to follow the procedure set forth in the stage requirements) the miss because the shooter failed to engage and or shoot the 11th target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Next shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I'm with Loco Notion on this one....P was earned first and then the miss. P and a miss. I agree with Phantom and others. The step by step requirement was to relaod 1 round and shoot the 11th target. The reload was not done. hense the P ( the shooter railed to follow the procedure set forth in the stage requirements) the miss because the shooter failed to engage and or shoot the 11th target. It's a P and a Miss...come on folks. P for not reloading... The 11th target wasnt' hit... The miss did not cause the P. The P also resulted in a target not being engaged...therefore a Miss. Oy! + 15 or 20 I reckon... P got him a miss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Wait...I think I've figured out how to win reeeeeeal fast and clean...other then a P. Can't get more then one P per stage....I'll shoot one round down range and then just leave the stage. Let's see...about 1 sec for the first shot...plus 10 seconds for a P...that's an 11 second stage. WOOHOO!!!!!!! I'm innnn the moneyyyyyyy!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I feel sorry for the stage writer....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I agree a P and a miss. Not that a CAShooter would ever do it but there's too much possibility that a shooter might intentionally avoid the reload to gain an advantage. If the reload and engagement takes a millisecond more than 5 seconds, the shooter gets an advantage for not attempting it. There has to be an additional penalty. As pointed out earlier, intentions can't be proven so no SOG can be assigned. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Wait...I think I've figured out how to win reeeeeeal fast and clean...other then a P. Can't get more then one P per stage....I'll shoot one round down range and then just leave the stage. Let's see...about 1 sec for the first shot...plus 10 seconds for a P...that's an 11 second stage. WOOHOO!!!!!!! I'm innnn the moneyyyyyyy!!!!! Where would you like for me to deliver your new Cadillac? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hi Boon Doogle... I am still working and havent been offwhen a match occurs since last July. Miss all you guys and I ma bout to retire whether or not I can afford it or not. perhaps Julyu or August. Depends on medical thing next month. Muleshoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Where would you like for me to deliver your new Cadillac? there's no stinking caddy for late comers that OY! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I'm leaning toward the 15. Ya can't tell me the feller who is slow on the reload and games it by not doing it at all is gonna "win" by taking the miss. Brain fade can be a "P", so ya it don't matter if ya forget to put the ladle in the bucket or forget to load and engage that last target at all, ya earned yerself a "P", and in this instance, a "P" causes ya to also not get a hit, ie, to get a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I heard y'all callin' from way out on the range today! As so many have already stated: P + a Miss (for all the reasons already mentioned). I see that the "P cannot cause a miss" misquote has already been addressed as well. Thank y'all for participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Wait...I think I've figured out how to win reeeeeeal fast and clean...other then a P. Can't get more then one P per stage....I'll shoot one round down range and then just leave the stage. Let's see...about 1 sec for the first shot...plus 10 seconds for a P...that's an 11 second stage. WOOHOO!!!!!!! I'm innnn the moneyyyyyyy!!!!! What about the other 23+ "unfired rounds" scored the same as misses @ 5x each?? I'd more than likely call that a DNF...scored the same as a SDQ. Two DNFs = Not eligible for any main match awards. I don't think that's going to work out like ya planned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I heard y'all callin' from way out on the range today! As so many have already stated: P + a Miss (for all the reasons already mentioned). I see that the "P cannot cause a miss" misquote has already been addressed as well. Thank y'all for participating. See, we can come to a conclusion by our own selves. You've trained us well master. Fillmore "Grasshopper san" Coffins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 See, we can come to a conclusion by our own selves. You've trained us well master. Fillmore "Grasshopper san" Coffins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Well I stand corrected. I could see a case for both ways, but just chose the wrong one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Muleshoe Bill, Some of us old grumpy types were talking 'bout other old grumpy types that we haven't seen in a while last Thursday and your name was mentioned. 'Course by the time we got home we had all forgotten that we were gonna check and see what happened to the missing old grumpy types. It's good to know that you are still able to table and will soon be enjoying a life of leisure. Hope the med thing works out favorably and you can get out and give us a hard time. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 While we are "kinda sorta" on this subject. What is the best way to handle rifle reloads for a buckarette? We run into this from time to time, and its really a pain trying to work with my daughter to get the round loaded thru the side of that lil Henry. It never wants to go in right and I normally have to unjam it with my knife. But, as required by certain stages, we always get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 While we are "kinda sorta" on this subject. What is the best way to handle rifle reloads for a buckarette? We run into this from time to time, and its really a pain trying to work with my daughter to get the round loaded thru the side of that lil Henry. It never wants to go in right and I normally have to unjam it with my knife. But, as required by certain stages, we always get it done. Since Buckaroo/ettes are allowed to use .22LR rifles (many of which load from the FRONT end of a tubular magazine), most matches I've attended allow them to PRE-load the "bonus" round at the LT. As long as all shooters in those categories have the same option, that seems to be the SAFEST & most fair way to handle a mandatory reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My post was a Brain Fart - 10 second Procedural..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thanks Palewolf. I thought that was how it had been handled in the past. And that is the way I would let anyone handle it at one of my matches. I just wondered about the general concencus. I wouldnt want to ask at a match to do this, unless it was available for all the young ones to do it. Shes getting upset with the time it takes to get the reloads done, so I will see at the next match about doing it that way. Gotta keep her happy...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 What about the other 23+ "unfired rounds" scored the same as misses @ 5x each?? I'd more than likely call that a DNF...scored the same as a SDQ. Two DNFs = Not eligible for any main match awards. I don't think that's going to work out like ya planned! I was pokin fun at those that didn't see a Miss included in the penalty...so I was a thinkin that I could just get by with a P...no misses...ya know the saying: a miss can't cause a P... Anyway, it's a pretty obvious answer. Scares me that folks have trouble with it...being that it can affect the outcome of a match. Seriously, folks it ain't all that hard. Why is y'all having trouble figurin this out??????? OY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 A "P" was earned when the shooter put in play the next firearm without following the stage instruction (to load a round). A "miss" was earned when the stage was completed without one rifle round being fired. As the shooter could have returned to the rifle, loaded a round and engaged the target before the shooter went to the unloading table. So the "P" did not cause the miss, as the round could have been reloaded fired later in the stage. Just my view - will await PWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 A "P" was earned when the shooter put in play the next firearm without following the stage instruction (to load a round). A "miss" was earned when the stage was completed without one rifle round being fired. As the shooter could have returned to the rifle, loaded a round and engaged the target before the shooter went to the unloading table. So the "P" did not cause the miss, as the round could have been reloaded fired later in the stage. That would have been an option to negate the miss for the "unfired round" Just my view - will await PWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.