Mustang Gregg Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hello, the fire! This question is kind of a take-off from another post...And I ain't no highjacker. Let's say you are the shooter who's shooting (partway through the stage) when you hear someone holler "Stop!". You don't know if it's the TO or not. Do you cease fire or keep shooting? If it was me (and it's happened before), I'd stop moving and shooting to see what the problem was. And I'd probably stop even if it wasn't the TO. What have you done? What should you do? Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hi Gregg, If I didn't know the reason, I would stop, regardless of who yelled. It could be a case of a person in the line of fire. This has happened at a local club that has a levy as a back berm. I would really prefer that folks yell "cease fire" rather than stop. That way it is obvious what the intent is. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Fuller Bullspit Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Is this a trick question? If I hear someone yell stop when I'm on the line I stop. If it was a mistake or a situation not of my making I'll take the re-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeb Kingsford Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Very good question. Who ever said stop regardless if it was or was not the TO, I would simply stop no questions asked. If I had done nothing wrong I would want a re-shoot. Zeb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Gun For Hire Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 This happened to me. Someone yelled STOP in the middle of my rifle stage,I did, come to find out I had a squib. My hearing is not as good as it should be, so having someone yell STOP saved my bacon. Safety is 1st. in this instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kid Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 would stop shooting and Freeze. not knowing what was going on but saftey is the first order of business cobra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Stop! Halt! Alto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 You stop immediately. There's not a stage or match out there that's worth someone getting injured for! Remember the "we're all safety officers" rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 "Cease Fire!" or "Stop!" - If at any time an unsafe condition develops, the Timer Operator will immediately shout "Cease Fire!" or "Stop!" The shooter is to stop firing or moving immediately. Failure to heed this command is serious and may result in a Match Disqualification. Because the shooter cannot be expected to know WHO yelled this, if the shooter has heard the command, he must assume it was a valid command and stop firing or moving immediately. They MAY earn a Match DQ otherwise if they fail to follow this command. With "deaf" shooters - I stay close enough to put a hand on shoulder or on the gun. Then, you give the shooter a reshoot if there was no Match DQ or Stage DQ earned by the action that caused the command to be called. Any Some other "awards" the shooter has earned (Ps, MSVs) carry forward. Now, if you have pards calling Cease Fire or Stop for reasons that are not valid, have a talk with them. But don't penalize the shooter nor expect the shooter to have to guess whether they need to follow these emergency commands or not. Good luck, GJ PS - Thanks for a correction by PWB! Because - On a reshoot/restart, the competitor starts over clean, carrying only accrued safety penalties forward. (Emphasis mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Al #22045 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 If you are the shooter, and someone, ANYONE, yells STOP, the shooter should immediately stop. That is the ONLY safe thing to do. No ifs, no ands, no buts, just stop. There may well be a dangerous situation. If the stop call was not justified, then do a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Like most everyone else, I'd stop and freeze, and I don't care who yelled it. While the RO is watching my guns, someone else might be in a better position to see some other hazard. If it turns out the command was given in error, so be it, re-shoot or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny two horse Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 11 posts and everyone agrees.....is this some kind of a record? Make that 12, I agree too...STOP immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 ... Then, you give the shooter a reshoot if there was no Match DQ or Stage DQ earned by the action that caused the command to be called. Any other "awards" the shooter has earned (Ps, MSVs) carry forward. Only MSV's carry over to a RESHOOT. Now, if you have pards calling Cease Fire or Stop for reasons that are not valid, have a talk with them. Before or after DQing them from the MATCH? But don't penalize the shooter nor expect the shooter to have to guess whether they need to follow these emergency commands or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I would (and have) stopped immediately. The shooter has no idea who yelled STOP and therefore should not be penalized for stopping in the name of safety. The shooter should get a re-shoot with only applicable penalties (if any) carried over. FWIW......I've only had one shooter that did not follow the STOP command which happened at the very end of the stage. He continued shooting his last gun (pistol) for the next four shots even though I yelled STOP again. I had never seen this shooter before, not that it matters. I got him of to the side and asked him if he heard the command to stop. He said he did, but didn't see a problem so he kept shooting. I told him that it didn't matter WHAT the problem was, if the command to stop is given, you STOP......period. He started to get kind of lippy so I told him that if he couldn't abide by that, he should put his guns in his car and leave. He did and I've never seen him again. The reason for the stop command..........a dog came up over the berm from behind and trotted between the targets. No dogs were harmed during this incident. C.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hello, the fire! This question is kind of a take-off from another post...And I ain't no highjacker. Let's say you are the shooter who's shooting (partway through the stage) when you hear someone holler "Stop!". You don't know if it's the TO or not. Do you cease fire or keep shooting? If it was me (and it's happened before), I'd stop moving and shooting to see what the problem was. And I'd probably stop even if it wasn't the TO. What have you done? What should you do? Mustang Gregg I stop. It's happened twice. I didn't know what was being yelled or why, but it seemed insistent and from more than one source. Safety trumps everything. The rest we figure out or it ends up here on the Wire until we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDisaster # 45431 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I would stop immediately, because I am an experienced disciplined shooter and Instructor. I would prefer the term CEASE FIRE, Stop could be misunderstood. Meaning maybe I was moving to a scondary shooting position and was going to overstep it or something. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 My worst fear when I started to RO was that the "Little Lady" RO would get ignored when she hollered CEASE FIRE, leading to someone getting hurt or worse. You can ignore the RO if the command is "Window" and you know you are supposed to go to the door but you can't ignore CEASE FIRE. Well, I guess you can once....... I don't like STOP much either, but if that is what gets hollered when hikers are spotted at the right side of the ridge that is our berm, it's better than nothing to get the attention of the shooter/RO and get the gun grounded. We just can't risk it with that basic a safety command, as a shooter, I would stop. I'm trusting all my pards will, too. So far, it looks like my Wire pards aren't letting me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Best course of action for the shooter is to just plain freeze until ya know what's going on and receive further instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The rules say that one must stop and obey said command from the TO. But this also means that spurious invalid utterances of "STOP" are bad behaviour. Of course the reshoot for a shooter who reacts to a spurious STOP is a MUST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 We used to have a shooter who was getting pretty old and could easily become confused etc. We let him keep shooting but really kept an eye on him. He was never unsafge Finally he decided he needed to just quit shooting. But a funny thing happened with him once. He was shooting his shotgun and I was spotting and when he would fire I couldn't see anything happen. No sign of impact on the target and no pellets hitting around the target. I was concerned that perhaps his barrel was plugged so hollered STOP! which he did. It turned out he was shooting blank 12 gauge cartridges and didn't realize it. SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Ears Wilson, SASS #77948 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The rules say that one must stop and obey said command from the TO. But this also means that spurious invalid utterances of "STOP" are bad behaviour. Of course the reshoot for a shooter who reacts to a spurious STOP is a MUST. Well said. Also, I'd rather have someone yell "Stop!" incorrectly than have folks second guess themselves and NOT call it at all. That could be the difference between alive and dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Fred SASS Life 20364 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Under the rules, and common sense, "we are all safety officers" therefore anyone who sees or hears something dangerous can yell "stop" as the TO or RO can not always see and hear everything. We are as the saying goes "our brothers keepers" when it comes to safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird 61147 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 STOP! No question. One of the problems are people watching and not just spectators that have big mouths. We have one at one of the clubs I shoot at who loves to shoot his mouth off while others are shooting. Oh yeah, he's a judge too. Not the Timer Operator? Then you would get a re-shoot. In any event, STOP means STOP . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'm headed back over to the Saloon, and getting out of this here "Twilight Zone" of agreement. This is just too spooky, all this agreement on the WIRE! And yes, I would and have stopped, regardless of who uttered the command. Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitmaster, SASS #78461 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would stop immediately and as a RO in a couple of disciplines I would expect the shooter to stop also. They would get a re-shoot. In a controversy of what was said I would go with better safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I've had this happen to me in the past and I froze instantly. For me, "stop" is one of those words that I really don't like using at a match. Been so far as to have gotten chewed out by a gal's husband for not yelling stop when she chose not to follow mine and the spotters coaching and got a procedural, but stop is one of those words that if it get's yelled, for the most part, means instant reshoot if the shooter freezes like a ceasefire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Stop and have faith in the system. If I did something wrong I'll take the heat and the time.....if it's a miss call or I'm impeded I would expect a re-shoot. Most of the calls I have seen or have been called for (including the example on the other thread) seem to work out right. I have only seen a couple that were "wrong" but in both cases the shooters were favored….maybe the if you think was carrying over there as well. But in the big picture most calls usually work out just fine...it's never a perfect world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 . I freeze, then make sure the firearm is pointing in a safe direction, then communicate! Who made the call? What is the issue? What do I need to do? Had it happen - a spotter though he heard a squib. Not the case, but I thanked him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I have only had this happen one time. A couple of kids who were there went downrange, quite a ways from where I was shooting. They were around 50 yards away from the stage I was on, and when the TO saw them he was yelling for me to "STOP". The worse part was, I didnt hear him. I guess I was zoned in and he yelled 3 times or so, before he actually put a hand on my shoulder to get my attention. As soon as he touched me, I ceased fire, I knew something was up, then...I heard him yelling at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well, I would stop, for sure. The reason I asked was: It happened to me awhile back. Someone hollered it loud enough, so I stopped. It came from behind the line where the spotters and spectators were. No one knew who yelled it. But the TO said that 'it wasn't him'. So I never got a re-shoot. Just asking for your reactions. Much obliged, MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well, I would stop, for sure. The reason I asked was: It happened to me awhile back. Someone hollered it loud enough, so I stopped. It came from behind the line where the spotters and spectators were. No one knew who yelled it. But the TO said that 'it wasn't him'. So I never got a re-shoot. Just asking for your reactions. Much obliged, MG You should have gotten a reshoot since you didn't know where it came from but it was yelled loud enough for you to hear it.I suspect the TO also heard it.You didn't know if it came from the TO or a spotter,so you did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danite SASS #27034 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Possee's that I have shot with would have been yelling to "git a rope" if the TO said he didn't yell stop so you don't get a re-shoot. If you heard it then enough people had heard it as you were the only one that counted, and if you said you had heard someone yell stop none of the people I have shot with would have doubted your word for a second. Now maybe my word, but not anyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Slick, SASS #64415 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 How many different ways are there to spell "STOP" stop means stop...."DANGER" Woah to horseys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well, I would stop, for sure. The reason I asked was: It happened to me awhile back. Someone hollered it loud enough, so I stopped. It came from behind the line where the spotters and spectators were. No one knew who yelled it. But the TO said that 'it wasn't him'. So I never got a re-shoot. Just asking for your reactions. Much obliged, MG That stinks! When wearing earplugs, it's difficult to tell who is saying what. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I go into a shooters bubble, when I engage in shooting a stage That means that, I listen for the timer operators advice, not others someone in the posse could say stop for any reason, (just in their conversations) --like-- "stop that honey!!" "lets stop for lunch when were done, billy bob" "I need to stop jacking out live rounds-dang-nabbit" some can hear better than others..... etc, mileage always varies but who will give a reshoot if a shooter stops every time they think they hear stop? we all need to use our best judgement at all times shucks, someone outside the posse walking up and down the range could yell stop,,,,,,,prank-yikes,,,,,,,,geeeeeeese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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