Not sure where I stand on this.

[Texas Joker]

On the one hand is a violation of law as written.

On the other I have always felt '68 GCA was unconstitutional.

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Many of us have been saying this for years. But if WE have to abide by the law, so should he.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Ust about every gun law violates the Second Amendment.  But If we have to follow the unconstitutional laws or face prison, so does he.  It will be interesting to hear how the gun-banners try to spin this.

[Texas Joker]

I agree, but the mental gymnastics!

 

And what happens if SCOTUS uses this case to remove '68?

 

CAN the dems and POTUS  argue against an outcome like that?

 

THE IRONY if a Biden causes 2a wins

[John Kloehr]

There are numerous cases challenging the 4473 question. Here is an article about one case which technically only applied to the person filing suit (an as-applied challenge):

 

https://reason.com/2023/08/11/5th-circuit-says-prosecuting-a-cannabis-consumer-for-possessing-guns-violated-the-second-amendment/

 

I read the ruling some time back, the argument comes down to history and tradition supporting disarming an inebriated individual for actual wrong-doing, and the actual wrong-doing having penalties. But firearms were returned to an individual when they sobered up.

 

No life-time ban, no disarmament with inebriation without actual wrong-doing.

[Blackwater 53393]

“The law applies to thee, but NOT to me!!”

 

Typical liberal logic!  We can’t have the unwashed be allowed to be our equals!!

[Texas Joker]

History and tradition also prove that arms were returned to ex cons but that ain't happening now either

[Rye Miles #13621]

Well supposedly he lied on the 4473 about being addicted to drugs. He said publicly that he was so ye lied on the 4473. I believe that’s a felony! Do I agree ? It’s the law and we all have to follow it. 

[Texas Joker]

But a law that abhorrent to the constitution doesn't stand when challenged 

[Subdeacon Joe]

22 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

But a law that abhorrent to the constitution doesn't stand when challenged 

 

Nice in theory, but practice doesn't support it.

[Pat Riot]

It would be a bit humorous that one left winger might accomplish something that so many conservatives have fought to do for years.  
 

Or, did they really fight for it?

[Chantry]

Lawyers are going to do lawyer stuff.

 

I kind of view it as a win/win:  Either the ruling will chip away at existing gun control laws or Biden will be a convicted criminal

[Blackwater 53393]

45 minutes ago, Chantry said:

Lawyers are going to do lawyer stuff.

 

I kind of view it as a win/win:  Either the ruling will chip away at existing gun control laws or Biden will be a convicted criminal

Maybe BOTH!!

 

 

Well? We can hope can’t we??

 

 

 

[Pb Mark]

The 4473, question #14 now gives the choice of sex as:  Male, Female. Nonbinary.  

 

Did Hunter check the wrong box?  XXX.  Gotta laugh sometimes because life is too short not to.  

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

I've always thought the question is absurd. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with it.

 

Are you a user of unlawful drugs? No. [maybe I used a couple of days ago, but I'm not a user now]

 

Are you addicted....? No. [I can quit anytime, so I'm not addicted]

 

Ridiculous. I hope he beats it.

[Blackwater 53393]

29 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I've always thought the question is absurd. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with it.

 

Are you a user of unlawful drugs? No. [maybe I used a couple of days ago, but I'm not a user now]

 

Are you addicted....? No. [I can quit anytime, so I'm not addicted]

 

Ridiculous. I hope he beats it.

Given even THAT level of rationalization, Hunter Biden has stated PUBLICLY that he was addicted to drugs at the time and that he was high when he filled out the form!!

 

SO! You’re saying that you hope he gets off when he has admitted that he’s guilty??

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

44 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Given even THAT level of rationalization, Hunter Biden has stated PUBLICLY that he was addicted to drugs at the time and that he was high when he filled out the form!!

 

SO! You’re saying that you hope he gets off when he has admitted that he’s guilty??

 

To tell the truth, I don't care about him at all and do not follow his vicissitudes, except to the extent that it is impossible to tune out. That said, I think if that's all the prosecutors have (and I don't know what they have), it's a reach.

[Eyesa Horg]

It wouldn't be a reach if it were one of us. We'd already be incarcerated and our firearms confiscated never to be seen by us again. Show me I'm wrong!

[Rye Miles #13621]

49 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

To tell the truth, I don't care about him at all and do not follow his vicissitudes, except to the extent that it is impossible to tune out. That said, I think if that's all the prosecutors have (and I don't know what they have), it's a reach.

They also have tax evasion !

[Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728]

Does the 4473 form violate the 5th Amendment about "incriminating yourself" on "are you an illegal user of" or how about the question "Are you Hispanic or not Hispanic"?   NO ONE can "make" a person on any Federal/State/Private Company etc. form say whether they are Hispanic or not Hispanic.  It's against Federal Law.   But, if you want to buy a firearm from a licensed firearm dealer you have to answer this question.

 

[Rip Snorter]

At the moment, the Constitution and Bill of Rights don't work.  Whatever the BATAFE does and their "rules" seem to overrule law and God given rights.  Of course, the system has two tracks depending on Party.  

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

It wouldn't be a reach if it were one of us. We'd already be incarcerated and our firearms confiscated never to be seen by us again. Show me I'm wrong!

 

First I'd need a drug addict to volunteer!

 

Still would be hard to prove...

[John Kloehr]

45 minutes ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

... "are you an illegal user of"

or addicted to? (not a violation of law or admission) One could be addicted but abstaining therefore still law-abiding.

 

How about "Are you Catholic"?

 

From: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/history-of-gun-control-17-18-centuries/#:~:text=In 1756%2C Maryland introduced a,in his House or Houses.”

 

"In 1756, Maryland introduced a law that restricted Catholics from owning guns. The law ordered the confiscation of 'all Arms Gunpowder and Ammunition of what kind soever any Papist or reputed Papist within this Providence hath or shall have in his House or Houses.'"

 

The Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, and the Maryland law does pre-date even the Constitution by 20 years, the 14th by far more. Today, such a law would be facially unconstitutional. And especially the "reputed Papist" language is offensive. Like charging someone is a reputed witch, or a reputed Jew.

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

The English Bill of Rights, which arose out of the Glorious Revolution of 1688, first established in writing the right to keep and bear arms. It was the direct inspiration for our second amendment. But it also restricted the right to Protestants.

 

There were of course certain historical reasons why this was so.

 

It's also useful to understand, in the context of the development of political rights, that in En gland 'rights' were held against the King. Liberties were embodied in Parliament; the concept of rights held against Parliament too was unknown, and would have been rejected. That's why Parliment could, and did, change the 'Bill of Rights' as it pleased. 

[Pb Mark]

Not a Hunter fan, but glad as a human being, he is looking better, has admitted his problem(s), hoping the media stress does not send him down that road again.  Wish that for any human being.

 

At least he did not use healthcare insurance to OD on Ozempic.   

[watab kid]

if they dont prosecute , find him guilty and give him the same sentence any of us would get they better get rid of the laws and stop the violations of our second amendment entirely , these law dont just apply to us taxpaying voters , they also apply to those e;lites that think themselves above the law [the constitution has a few things to say about that as well] 

[J-BAR #18287]

I no longer play the game.  In the past I have written checks to every 2nd Amendment support organization.  No more.  I'm old, cranky, and my joints hurt.  Either the Bill of Rights works or it doesn't.  
 

Politicians and organizations who abuse support for basic constitutional rights (saying they support the 2nd Amendment and then not repealing gun control laws) are just in it for money.

 

From now on they get no money from me.  I'm tired of the crap.

 

Find another issue.  You can no longer scare me with threats of gun confiscation.  Try it.   See what happens.

[Pb Mark]

20 minutes ago, watab kid said:

if they dont prosecute , find him guilty and give him the same sentence any of us would get they better get rid of the laws and stop the violations of our second amendment entirely , these law dont just apply to us taxpaying voters , they also apply to those e;lites that think themselves above the law [the constitution has a few things to say about that as well] 

In a perfect world, agree.

 

This is a messed-up world though.  Judges are the new politicians.  Media are the propagandists.  Politicians are the new used car salesmen.  Unelected bureaucrats are the new lawmakers.  Bitcoin is listed on the stock exchanges.  Could go on and on. 

 

Tell Elon Musk to shut it down due to public smoking of pot on TV....  Same sort of thing.  Good luck with that.

 

What I'm saying is time to be patient.  Political gamesmanship designed to divide the country is ongoing nonstop.  Not a fight to get involved in because it is a waste of good energy.  Watch, wait, learn, listen.  Cannot influence anything that is going on about this situation anyway.  

 

Here is how it would go anyway.  Hunter convicted big time.  Dad either gets reelected or not.  If not, pardon prior to leaving.  If so, pardon after reelection because he will not be running again.  Media has a heyday and create more political discourse. They sell more commercials. Pretty simple to me.  All in all, just another media driven topic to divide the country.  

 

Turn the channel to a better soap opera.  

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

59 minutes ago, Pb Mark said:

Here is how it would go anyway.  Hunter convicted big time.  Dad either gets reelected or not.  If not, pardon prior to leaving.  If so, pardon after reelection because he will not be running again.  Media has a heyday and create more political discourse. They sell more commercials. Pretty simple to me.  All in all, just another media driven topic to divide the country.  

You forgot the part where they blame Trump.

[watab kid]

1 hour ago, Pb Mark said:

In a perfect world, agree.

 

This is a messed-up world though.  Judges are the new politicians.  Media are the propagandists.  Politicians are the new used car salesmen.  Unelected bureaucrats are the new lawmakers.  Bitcoin is listed on the stock exchanges.  Could go on and on. 

 

Tell Elon Musk to shut it down due to public smoking of pot on TV....  Same sort of thing.  Good luck with that.

 

What I'm saying is time to be patient.  Political gamesmanship designed to divide the country is ongoing nonstop.  Not a fight to get involved in because it is a waste of good energy.  Watch, wait, learn, listen.  Cannot influence anything that is going on about this situation anyway.  

 

Here is how it would go anyway.  Hunter convicted big time.  Dad either gets reelected or not.  If not, pardon prior to leaving.  If so, pardon after reelection because he will not be running again.  Media has a heyday and create more political discourse. They sell more commercials. Pretty simple to me.  All in all, just another media driven topic to divide the country.  

 

Turn the channel to a better soap opera.  

 

i wont disagree with you on most everything you said , i must point out that the judges and lawyers have been the politicians' for decades  - yes they are the used car salesmen as we knew them , the media is the cheerleading squad or the hatchet squad , i wont turn the channel as i hate the soaps in general

 

my state has produced a lot of that crap lately and my home town has a 7+million dollar theft of public funds that ill guarantee you got sent to somali terrorists overseas that will not get proper prosecution but they will slap someone's wrist and release them to reoffend ,  ill also point out that my legislature just said drugs are good so i wont be missing out on seeing someone smoking pot anytime soon , 

 

i can guarantee you there will be illegals voting here this election , we just passed a new law that issues them drivers licences [citizens have to have insurance - ill bet none of them do] and we have a motor/voter law that lets you register to vote with your drivers license , 

my wife is an election judge here - in spite of the laws that state you must be a citizen , you must be able to read and write english , they get to vote cause we are forbidden at the pols to require ID and proof of citizenship or refuse those that cant speak or read [they get to have an interpretur-i read that as COACH] so dont tell me our southern boarder is not a problem , 

 

i dont care if "good old joe" pardons his kid - he needs to be prosecuted and convicted under the laws the libs passed or those laws need to be repealed , if it takes hunter biden to get that done so be it , but it has toi be equal protection and equal prosecution under these laws they have passed , if this SUCKS GOOD OLD JOE DOWN so be it , trump had nothing to do with this - he is fighting off the prosecution of the bannana republic current regime ...he didnt have anything to do with GOOD OLD JOES doings or hunters , 

 

bottom line is we the people need to know and we the people need justice for both hunter and ourselves - if you free him , you free us OR ELSE you senence him to prison as you would us .......get rid of these laws or throw him in prison , if jue pardons him we all will know and remember , 

[Pb Mark]

9 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

You forgot the part where they blame Trump.

On the same day media releases that the beloved "star" Mathew Perry drowned in his pool from the effects of Ketamine, while the Rudy Guiliani civil trial orders him to pay $148 million dollars to those he slandered....  Best soap opera in many years.  I'll give Hunter Biden a pass.  Has admitted his previous addictions, paid back his back taxes, owned up to his corrupt business dealings, seems to be trying to get his life back on track.  Not denying wrongdoings and an attempt to correct those actions goes far with me, no matter who.

 

Heck, my favorite president, Ronald Reagan banned a favorite battle rifle, the HK91 (G3).  While at it, banned the FNFAL and AK47.  Gave him a pass on something that actually impacted my gun collecting.  Could care less about Hunter.  His story is a nothingburger and his life is a nothingburger to the general public.  His story will have zero impact on gun legislation. His story reminds me of Billy Carter's.  Hunter selling lousy paintings, Billy and his beer, George Santos' Cameo superstardom after getting booted from congress......  What did they put into our water???  

 

How many armed, dangerous doped up drug dealers or murderers are wondering around out on bail living in your neck of the woods?  Those are the type people that need concentrated upon when it comes to gun crimes.  

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

all of this is a smokescreen , to hide the dirty backroom deals , they do NOT want to come to light 

 

  Chickasaw Bill 

 

  and it seems to be working 

[Blackwater 53393]

51 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

all of this is a smokescreen , to hide the dirty backroom deals , they do NOT want to come to light 

 

  Chickasaw Bill 

 

  and it seems to be working 

 

Hunter Biden is one tip of the iceberg of dirty back room deals.  This needs to be chipped off and then we might see what else floats to the surface!!

 

He and his ilk seem to think that they are entitled to a pass on this kind of shenanigans!! He’s only one of many that need to be made examples of so that this crap put to a stop!!

[Gungadin]

The left will argue that nobody gets punished for that minor violation of the gun form BUT I have seen a lawyer go thru the normal punishments even noting a double minority that got a significant punishment.

 

'..............with liberty and justice for all.'

 

Then we have the 'its only political' statement.  Really?  Is it political that he got paid obscene sums for something that he is not qualified to do by his own admission?  Or is it political that 'Justice' tried to run out the clock?  Sure it is political.  Other governments were buying influence because Pops was VP and P.

 

Legally what is treason?  How much $ can a politician take from the Chinese government before it is treason?  Yea, I know the $ came from a chinese company...not the Government....ha, ha.

 

And it would seem Trump was right about Hunters deal in Eastern Europe?

 

I'm thinking that the Bidens aren't as good at this as the Clintons?  How is that Clinton Foundation doing these days?

 

You say a Republican did the same?  Fine let's put that guy and both Bidens away and then work on the next two and then the next two.  Banana Republic