Military Camo Shortage ?????

[Dusty Devil Dale]

News reports the Marine Corps is unable to procure woodland pattern  camouflage uniforms due to a manufacturer supply problem projected to last until fall, 2024.

 

That sure seems to me like a national security issue to be solved by a temporary Federal takeover of production lines,  like they did for Covid masks, etc.  It sure is hard to understand the decisions being made nowadays. 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

You really think the Corps can’t adapt, improvise, overcome?

[Rip Snorter]

Someone will know more details, but my recollection is that the last BDU uniform change was a very expensive disaster.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

14 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Someone will know more details, but my recollection is that the last BDU uniform change was a very expensive disaster.

Just FYI, the Army wears BDUs. The Marine Corps wears a Camouflage Utility Uniform. Also known as "Cammies". (At least we used to.) 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

18 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Just FYI, the Army wears BDUs. The Marine Corps wears a Camouflage Utility Uniform. Also known as "Cammies". (At least we used to.) 

…and the Navy now wears blue camo so they blend in better with their surroundings…

[Alpo]

Woodland camo? I thought they did away with woodland more than 20 years ago. Like tiger stripe - it is not used no more.

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Alpo said:

Woodland camo? I thought they did away with woodland more than 20 years ago. Like tiger stripe - it is not used no more.

 

Its technical name is Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform (MCCUU) in Woodland MARPAT.

 

 

This is the Desert pattern

 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

2 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

…and the Navy now wears blue camo so they blend in better with their surroundings…

Navy did away with the blueberries.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

39 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Navy did away with the blueberries.

Really, when? Did common sense overwhelm the hierarchy, or was it plain embarrassment?

[Rip Snorter]

My recollection is that the blueberries made man overboard rescue difficult and a couple of guys died.  Not certain.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Apparently 2017 onward.

 

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/navy-announces-end-of-blue-camouflage-uniform-1.422513

[watab kid]

i got lots of cammo gear - not sure it meets current military standards but it did once 

[Sawhorse Kid]

It's right there in front of them.....can't they see it.   

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Word is that they are working on the next generation “Invisigear”.

[Texas Jack Black]

10 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

My recollection is that the blueberries made man overboard rescue difficult and a couple of guys died.  Not certain.

 So they went to blue camo. I do not think so.

[DocWard]

14 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Just FYI, the Army wears BDUs. The Marine Corps wears a Camouflage Utility Uniform. Also known as "Cammies". (At least we used to.) 

The Army hasn’t worn BDUs for a long time. It is now the ACU (Army Combat Uniform).

 

https://www.military.com/equipment/army-combat-uniform-acu

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

3 hours ago, DocWard said:

The Army hasn’t worn BDUs for a long time. It is now the ACU (Army Combat Uniform).

 

https://www.military.com/equipment/army-combat-uniform-acu

Rip Snorter mentioned BDUs. 

[Rip Snorter]

Dated term, then, I'm old.  Simply read an article that stated that the last set of combat utilities, a new design, were a disaster for a variety of reasons and had been a very expensive effort with expensive replacement needed. There were a variety of issues, one being their effectiveness as camouflage, particularly in respect to night vision.  

[PowderRiverCowboy]

4 hours ago, DocWard said:

The Army hasn’t worn BDUs for a long time. It is now the ACU (Army Combat Uniform).

 

https://www.military.com/equipment/army-combat-uniform-acu

They ditched the  actual ACU pattern and well good riddance thee FR ACU (fire resistant ) was garbage I went through a pair of trousers in exactly one day . The current  pattern is OCP Operational Camouflage Pattern 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

42 minutes ago, Rip Snorter said:

Dated term, then, I'm old.  

Me too.

[Pat Riot]

All they need to do is go online and order from Bass Pro / Cabela’s and a couple other hunter’s supply chains. They’ll all be outfitted in no time. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

Just now, Pat Riot said:

All they need to do is go online and order from Bass Pro / Cabela’s and a couple other hunter’s supply chains. They’ll all be outfitted in no time. 

Bass Pro / Cabela’s aren't the lowest bidder. 

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Correct me if I'm wrong,  but didn't the Army have a similar issue during one of the recent uniform changes? 

 

Living near Benning, I see Army personnel daily and, during uniform changes,  it's not unusual to see both types out and about in town for months with the older ones gradually fading away.

 

Seems to me that the answer woud be to issue the old style to trainees and extend the end date of the full change over.  Basically,  slow the change until the logistics chain can support it fully.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

5 minutes ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Seems to me that the answer would be to issue the old style to trainees and extend the end date of the full change over.  Basically,  slow the change until the logistics chain can support it fully.

That's how it was in The Corps when Cammies were first being issued. When I went to Boot Camp in '77, we were issued 2 sets of Cammies, and 2 sets of Sateens. Sateens were available and used until about 1980 when they were finally phased out. Personally I always liked Sateens. I found them more comfortable than Cammies.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

On a side note, I like the look of the new retro WW2 uniforms that replaced that blue and white waiter's uniform with the black beret- which replaced the old green polyester Class A's.  Solid khaki has to be more comfortable in a Georgia summer than either of those two.

[Chief Rick]

16 hours ago, Rip Snorter said:

My recollection is that the blueberries made man overboard rescue difficult and a couple of guys died.  Not certain.

Truth be told, a man overboard doesn't really matter what they are wearing.

 

Before the blue camouflage, we wore blue coveralls or blue denim pants and blue cotton shirts.

 

Unless someone watches them go overboard and can keep an eye on them, they're hard to find.

 

We run drills using a mannequin dressed in orange. In sea state 2, the waves can be just over 1.5 ft.  The mannequin is wearing a large orange life jacket and regularly goes completely out of sight.  Now imagine a real person with just a head bobbing out of the water, or higher sea states.

 

The Navy now wears digital green or sand camo, I don't know the proper terminology for it.  I don't pretend to understand why every branch needs their own pattern of camo or they're own uniform style/cut.

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

The Navy now wears digital green or sand camo, I don't know the proper terminology for it.  I don't pretend to understand why every branch needs their own pattern of camo or they're own uniform style/cut.

 

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

There was a time when camo was rarely seen. Growing up in the Navy, I never saw camo except on Marines. And they were dressed for battle.
 

Never understood why it’s considered office attire or necessary for turning a wrench on a ship or in a hangar. 

 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

22 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

There was a time when camo was rarely seen. Growing up in the Navy, I never saw camo except on Marines. And they were dressed for battle.
 

Never understood why it’s considered office attire or necessary for turning a wrench on a ship or in a hangar. 

 

As I stated, I am a Marine. I can understand the Army and Marines wearing Camouflage, but don't see why the Navy or Air Force need it. Maybe they just want to feel like they are part of the Cool Kids. No disrespect meant, (well a little to the Navy). As for wearing in an office environment, there are two reasons I know of, (One) Unit cohesion. That's why it's called a uniform. (Two), It's just easier to stay looking professional. If you even look hard at a khaki uniform shirt, it gets dirty. Far easier to wear Cammies. When I was in the Air Wing, the only time I wore Cammies was Weekly Inspection. Otherwise it was mechanics coveralls. I wore Civvies to and from the Base and changed there. At the time, it was against Regs to wear Cammies out in public. You didn't stop at a store, gas station, or restaurant in them, EVER. When we flew commercial as a unit, it was Dress Uniform, too.

[Pat Riot]

6 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

Truth be told, a man overboard doesn't really matter what they are wearing.

 

Before the blue camouflage, we wore blue coveralls or blue denim pants and blue cotton shirts.

 

Unless someone watches them go overboard and can keep an eye on them, they're hard to find.

 

We run drills using a mannequin dressed in orange. In sea state 2, the waves can be just over 1.5 ft.  The mannequin is wearing a large orange life jacket and regularly goes completely out of sight.  Now imagine a real person with just a head bobbing out of the water, or higher sea states.

 

The Navy now wears digital green or sand camo, I don't know the proper terminology for it.  I don't pretend to understand why every branch needs their own pattern of camo or they're own uniform style/cut.

I liked the old dungarees with the blue denim and the light blue cotton shirts for work uniforms. When I saw the blue BDUs and now the green I thought they looked ridiculous. The only benefit I saw was now the women wouldn’t complain about guys checking them out. 
 

Been in some of those Very High seas. What a ride! 
And you’re right about someone going over the side. They are really hard to see, even the test dummies in orange can be hard to track. 
I was the Gunners Mate that manned the motor whaleboat when we were on Life Guard Patrol for the Carrier “Ike” CVN-69 in the Atlantic and Med. Several times sailors went overboard on the Ike. We never found them. A couple were rescued by helicopter, but there were a couple that were lost. We never launched the whaleboat as we couldn’t see them. What a sick feeling that was. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

43 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

As I stated, I am a Marine. I can understand the Army and Marines wearing Camouflage, but don't see why the Navy or Air Force need it. Maybe they just want to feel like they are part of the Cool Kids. No disrespect meant, (well a little to the Navy).

Bingo. When I first read of the blue camo, that was the behind the lines justification, but it was sold under the guise of “cohesion among the service branches.” Nobody asked Navy personnel, it was just something cooked up by some flag officer and PR office. 
 

It’s a long service tradition, which includes people like Ernest J.  King and George S. Patton who have directed boneheaded uniforms. 

[Eyesa Horg]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:08 PM, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

…and the Navy now wears blue camo so they blend in better with their surroundings…

Yeh, you'd never noticed the boat

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Blueberries make as much sense as the faded looking tiger stripes the Air Force chose.

 

I still ain't figured out why every branch has to have their own distinctive camo pattern.  The ground don't care what branch you're in. Neither does the enemy.

 

Choose the camo based on the terrain that the troops are operating in (and stick EVERYBODY in theater in that camo), not because 3 or 4 somebodies in the Pentagon needs to prove that their jobs are vital.  After all the money wasted on new uniforms for the sake of new uniforms, the military could have a half a dozen distinctive patterns sitting on in the warehouse to match a wide variety of potential areas of operation.

[DocWard]

10 hours ago, PowderRiverCowboy said:

They ditched the  actual ACU pattern and well good riddance thee FR ACU (fire resistant ) was garbage I went through a pair of trousers in exactly one day . The current  pattern is OCP Operational Camouflage Pattern 

 

It is still, as the above right shows, the Army Combat Uniform. It is only the pattern that has changed, which is noted in my link.

[Pat Riot]

Squids don’t need camo. A sailor serving on land in a war zone, yes. At sea on a ship? No!

I can tell you that when I was in the Navy we were issued the “Raison” dungarees and the “Ice Cream Man” dress blues. The traditional blue denim dungarees had been newly approved as well as “Cracker Jacks”. Every payday I divided up my money for booze, cigarettes, gedunk and new uniforms so I could have a full sea bag of “Sailor’s” uniforms, not that Zumwalt era monkey suit and those gawd-awful ugly canvas dungarees. The pants were like black Sears Toughskins. The shirts were dark blue and hotter than hell in the sun.

I bought some surplus Forest Camo BDUs years ago for CA deer hunting in the mountains. Wore them once and gave them to some paint ballers. Hot, uncomfortable and just plain weird to wear. I guess if I had to wear them I would get used to them, but since I didn’t HAVE TO wear them I got rid of them.