So Californian, where's the money going to come from?

[Eyesa Horg]

Bingo

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

5 hours ago, bgavin said:

It is Communist ideology with the intent of currying favor (read: buying Black votes).

Your tax dollars at work.

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

What does this have to do with Communist ideology? If you're gonna speak in sound bites at least pick one that makes sense. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

39 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

What does this have to do with Communist ideology? If you're gonna speak in sound bites at least pick one that makes sense. 

 

Forced redistribution of wealth.  

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

Reparations.
How about reparations for my uncle?
He fought for the Yankee North.

He stepped off a boat from Germany and was immediately press ganged into Union blue.

My Uncle survived, if you can call it that.

He went insane from his wartime experience.

Mental health care then was not what it is now, he spent what little was left of his life, chained in the barn, a violent and raving madman.

How about reparations for him?

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

19 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Forced redistribution of wealth.  

In Communism the wealth gets redistributed to anybody that needs it, that's very different from reparations. Maybe you could say this is buying votes with somebody else's money, but that happens plenty in Capitalism too. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Forced redistribution of wealth.  

 

4 hours ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

In Communism the wealth gets redistributed to anybody that needs it, that's very different from reparations. Maybe you could say this is buying votes with somebody else's money, but that happens plenty in Capitalism too. 

Either way the guy that's actually working to support his family pays for those who aren't.

[Eyesa Horg]

35 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

 

Either way the guy that's actually working to support his family pays for those who aren't.

And I'm sick and tired of it.

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

3 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

 

Either way the guy that's actually working to support his family pays for those who aren't.

Interesting that you think anybody who would be eligible for reparations isn't working to support his family. 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

17 minutes ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

Interesting that you think anybody who would be eligible for reparations isn't working to support his family. 

Exactly who WOULD be eligible? Anybody eligible for "reparations" for slavery would be dead for well over 100 years. Any of their descendants certainly wouldn't be. The children or even grandchildren of slaves are almost certainly long gone. Any descendants from then on would have been born as free citizens. 

Any American descendants of slaves almost certainly have it better than if their ancestors hadn't been brought to THIS country. Who do you think were brought here as slaves? They were the poorest and least advancest, as a civilization, of all people of the world. People in those parts of the world are STILL the poorest of the poor. The descendants of those who weren't brought here are the ones you see on TV begging for $20 a month to keep from starving. These commercials have been on TV as long as I have been watching TV. That's at LEAST 4 generations who haven't been able to get out of the situation they are in. THEY are the people who deserve reparations, not from US, but from THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS. 

How many people who claim they "deserve" reparations DON'T drive a decent car, live in an airconditioned housing, and have a big screen TV? If they don't, it's usually because of the bad decisions they've made in their lives, not because their ancestors were removed from the squalor they were born into and brought to the best nation the world has ever seen. DESPITE the efforts of people both in and out of government who say different. 

[Crusty Knees]

Just wondering.  Does "reparations" mean that they tax everybody and give to just one group, depending on their skin color?  Or do they just tax people of one skin color to give to other skin color?   What about people of skin tones that were not involved in this at all?  What if the people chosen to pay reparations are recent immigrants to this country, or their families didn't even live here back then.   What if you're mixed race?  What if the people who are supposed to get reparations weren't in this country at the time and had never been slaves?   I'm just sceptical that all the money taxed or redistributed will actually go to someone who in some way was effected, and instead just fund a huge bureaucracy set up to somehow figure this all out, and cost more than is ever raised by the new redistribution tax.  Isn't that what happened with the "war on poverty?"  Actually giving a million dollars to everyone below the poverty level would have cost far less.   Yes, that's factual.  You can look it up.  

[Eyesa Horg]

Even Caucasians were slaves many moons ago, they called them peasants.

[bgavin]

Or Irish

[Blackwater 53393]

3 hours ago, bgavin said:

Or Irish

 
Or Italians, or Greeks, or anyone who wasn’t well off enough or educated enough to avoid “company stores” and indentured servitude and the like!!

 

Then you have to remember the orientals and others who were basically forced into bondage when they were brought here, most against their will.

[bgavin]

Irish were slaved

[watab kid]

"...Just wondering.  Does "reparations" mean that they tax everybody and give to just one group, depending on their skin color?  Or do they just tax people of one skin color to give to other skin color?   What about people of skin tones that were not involved in this at all?...." 

 

i dont know of anyone that is living today that were "INVOLVED" in any of this , its al BS , and with all the recent rhetoric referencing reviving lynching by the democrats i think voters should be bailing from that party in droves 

[John Kloehr]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:49 PM, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

I hope that all of the people who leave California know that they are refugees and not missionaries.

Most do not know that. Some think they do, but most don't

 

I live in a place which still has neighborhood dogs, outdoor cats, honest people carry firearms, we actually know the people running our elections, first responders are local heroes, mufflers on vehicles are socially optional, neighbors with chickens sell their fresh flavorful eggs (to other neighbors) for way less than store prices, maybe I'll add more to this list later. I do feel like I live in the United States of America now.

 

I spent too much time open that other coast. But in less than a week in my  new home here someone tried to B&E. Well, this homie ain't playing that! Armed up the next day. Then signed up for a carry permit; we now have permit less carry. Been here a few years now, now the local dogs and cats, eat amazingly good eggs, vote while saying "Good Morning" to friends, drive a retired police car with no mufflers, donate to the schools, send Girl Scout cookies to the troops, and more.

 

I do not have time myself to be a missionary to the new arrivals, but I do think they can learn. The damage is not necessarily permanent.

[bgavin]

13 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

 I do feel like I live in the United States of America now.

For now.
There is no part of Russia that isn't communist.
No part of Cuba or China, either.

CA and AZ both fell.
So did NV, and ID is right behind.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

2 hours ago, bgavin said:

CA and AZ both fell.

Az has NOT fallen! There some crazies here, but most of us are good, tax paying gun toting folk. It just looks like we've fallen because the other side managed to cheat in this last election. But we stand strong!

[bgavin]

Sure. 

[The Shoer 27979]

5 hours ago, bgavin said:

For now.
There is no part of Russia that isn't communist.
No part of Cuba or China, either.

CA and AZ both fell.
So did NV, and ID is right behind.

That is pure bs for idaho 

[bgavin]

Look at the number of Democrat votes in ID.
Look up the number of CA drivers licenses exchanged in Ada County every year, for ID licenses.
Look up the 30% Biden vote tally in the ID panhandle.
BS.. no.
Sticking your head in the sand is BS.

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/idaho/

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

12 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Exactly who WOULD be eligible? Anybody eligible for "reparations" for slavery would be dead for well over 100 years. Any of their descendants certainly wouldn't be. The children or even grandchildren of slaves are almost certainly long gone. Any descendants from then on would have been born as free citizens. 

Any American descendants of slaves almost certainly have it better than if their ancestors hadn't been brought to THIS country. Who do you think were brought here as slaves? They were the poorest and least advancest, as a civilization, of all people of the world. People in those parts of the world are STILL the poorest of the poor. The descendants of those who weren't brought here are the ones you see on TV begging for $20 a month to keep from starving. These commercials have been on TV as long as I have been watching TV. That's at LEAST 4 generations who haven't been able to get out of the situation they are in. THEY are the people who deserve reparations, not from US, but from THEIR OWN GOVERNMENTS. 

How many people who claim they "deserve" reparations DON'T drive a decent car, live in an airconditioned housing, and have a big screen TV? If they don't, it's usually because of the bad decisions they've made in their lives, not because their ancestors were removed from the squalor they were born into and brought to the best nation the world has ever seen. DESPITE the efforts of people both in and out of government who say different. 

Two of the worst excuses you could have come up with. Oh, I guess it's too late for reparations now, so no harm no foul. And the other one, oh it's not as bad as it could have been so what's the problem? I still don't think reparations are a good solution, I don't even think there's a good way to do it and even if there was I'm sure it would be abused at least as much as the free pandemic money was. Unfortunately the real solution is the one this country still refuses to do after all this time, just treat them fairly. I know everybody likes to say they want "equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome", but anybody that thinks we have equality of opportunity is really not paying attention. Maybe that's why some people think the only thing holding anybody back is their own bad decisions.  

[watab kid]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:36 AM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I wish I could agree with you.  MOST of us leaving now are or will be refugees.  But the history of people leaving California seems to be (broad brush) a large number of well off leftists who want to move out of cesspools like San Francisco Bay Area or the Los Angeles area, so they can go somewhere less crowded and "experience nature" but with all the amenities of big city life.  Then are appalled to see that not everyone shares their delicate and sophisticated social sensibilities, and start pushing, and pushing loudly, to change the laws to conform to what they fled.   And so the cancer spreads.

 

 

that was so well said , im not going to throw rocks as my state is also starting to get to this point , im not the only one looking to leave because of my local government , i know a good number of friends and relatives fed up with our taxes and spending [we had billions in surplus - did we get any back ? no , it got spent in the middle of the night with no explanation or tax relief , 

 

i agree that those leaving for whatever better place take the values they had when they leave , its sad but the conservative minded are not well enough off to pick up and ;leave , until we are retired and have no grandkids to hold us , im slowly finding myself in that place - i will miss this place , but not the politics or taxes - the rehtoric and attitude of our state government is offensive to both those of us that are wanting to leave and those that cant afford to move ...they just dont hear it or understand what they heard , 

[watab kid]

1 hour ago, Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680 said:

Two of the worst excuses you could have come up with. Oh, I guess it's too late for reparations now, so no harm no foul. And the other one, oh it's not as bad as it could have been so what's the problem? I still don't think reparations are a good solution, I don't even think there's a good way to do it and even if there was I'm sure it would be abused at least as much as the free pandemic money was. Unfortunately the real solution is the one this country still refuses to do after all this time, just treat them fairly. I know everybody likes to say they want "equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome", but anybody that thinks we have equality of opportunity is really not paying attention. Maybe that's why some people think the only thing holding anybody back is their own bad decisions.  

 

 

i disagree with everything you have said here , this is  one of the only places anyone can succeed on their own efforts alone , we are also offering those that come here that same opportunity - just have to work at it like the rest of us , there are far too many success stories to ignore , 

on the other hand - tell me of one story from Cuba , Venezuela , its just that its not given out freely , yet you point out the handouts we recently have seen - did these make any real difference ? 

well we have higher minimum wage - but we have rampant inflation that eats all that up , we have a national debt that our childrens children cannot repay , and we are getting increased taxes - do not even pretend the lie of only on the rich , the poor will pay them , 

 

the whole covid thing cost us - the shutdown , the payouts , the lost workforce that got used to being at home on the socialist dime , if we dont become a poor communist country it will amaze me , we that care are getting too old to fight - the young have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to all the BS of censorship and alphabet soup crap , 

 

BAD DECISIONS is what its all about .....

fair treatment has never been the question here - life is not fair , make your own way by hard work , no one owes you a damn thing , what the hell makes anyone so special ? no FREE RIDE , the rest of us lived in this system and will live out our lives here if you dont kill it for us ....but then im thinking there are a lot of us going to stand against your thinking , 

 

reparations would be nothing short of another free handout that everyone else must pay for , the war is over lest you revive it , freedom has been granted , lest you take it away by your stupidity , MOVE ON , you are not part of the solution you are the problem , 

[Chicken Rustler, SASS #26680]

8 hours ago, watab kid said:

 

 

i disagree with everything you have said here , this is  one of the only places anyone can succeed on their own efforts alone , we are also offering those that come here that same opportunity - just have to work at it like the rest of us , there are far too many success stories to ignore , 

on the other hand - tell me of one story from Cuba , Venezuela , its just that its not given out freely , yet you point out the handouts we recently have seen - did these make any real difference ? 

well we have higher minimum wage - but we have rampant inflation that eats all that up , we have a national debt that our childrens children cannot repay , and we are getting increased taxes - do not even pretend the lie of only on the rich , the poor will pay them , 

 

the whole covid thing cost us - the shutdown , the payouts , the lost workforce that got used to being at home on the socialist dime , if we dont become a poor communist country it will amaze me , we that care are getting too old to fight - the young have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to all the BS of censorship and alphabet soup crap , 

 

BAD DECISIONS is what its all about .....

fair treatment has never been the question here - life is not fair , make your own way by hard work , no one owes you a damn thing , what the hell makes anyone so special ? no FREE RIDE , the rest of us lived in this system and will live out our lives here if you dont kill it for us ....but then im thinking there are a lot of us going to stand against your thinking , 

 

reparations would be nothing short of another free handout that everyone else must pay for , the war is over lest you revive it , freedom has been granted , lest you take it away by your stupidity , MOVE ON , you are not part of the solution you are the problem , 

All I'll say is you have to ignore a lot of very true things to keep that attitude. On the other hand, keep talking because you are also saying other things that are true and need to be said. 

[Texas Joker]

Anybody remember why Liberia was founded?

 

How has affirmative action worked out?

 

Are some people racist? Yes they are. There's bigots in every colored skin, but by and large folks is folks. We want to raise our family's do our jobs and be left in peace.

 

If it means a ONE time go and we all get to shut up about how life is not fair and and something that happened to your ancestors that was corrected on the national level that we all agree was wrong. If in 20 years we aren't all doing this again. I might be convinced to participate. Not holding my breath

 

But if the elites lose their victim class who will they convince to feel downtrodden by others? If black vs white isn't a wedge what will be. 

 

Economic class, education, background, race, sex, disability are all things you can use an an excuse or motivator. Culture matters. 

 

 

 

 

[Black Angus McPherson]

2 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

Anybody remember why Liberia was founded?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.  Enlighten me.

[Alpo]

If my rememberer is working correctly, good old Honest Abe came up with this idea of taking all the freed slaves and sending them back to Africa. They would form their own country - Liberia. You know because, Liberty.

[Gracos Kid]

My Great X3 Grandmother was a Cherokee Indian, daughter of then Chief.    If anyone deserves reparations of any sort, what about all of the Cherokees who were forced from their lands and moved, many dying along the Trail of Tears.   

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Gracos Kid said:

My Great X3 Grandmother was a Cherokee Indian, daughter of then Chief.    If anyone deserves reparations of any sort, what about all of the Cherokees who were forced from their lands and moved, many dying along the Trail of Tears.   

Not disagreeing that they were treated badly, but IMHO, their descendants wouldn't have any more claim than the descendants of slaves. 

[Blackwater 53393]

1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Not disagreeing that they were treated badly, but IMHO, their descendants wouldn't have any more claim than the descendants of slaves. 

 

They should certainly have no less claim! They were forced to give up property, homes, farms, and businesses. They were herded like cattle, (or worse) and deprived of their freedom!! Many had frame houses with glass windows and locking doors that white families subsequently moved into! 
 

This was not just “allowed” by our government!  It was actually “instituted, enforced, and carried out” by that government!!

 

They were productive inhabitants with towns, organized local government, and even schools!!  
 

Not only that, they were at peace with their neighbors and posed little threat to the several states and the nation as a whole!!

 

It would be ridiculous to argue that their descendants are not more entitled to reparations than the descendants of slaves, given these facts!!

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

35 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

They should certainly have no less claim! They were forced to give up property, homes, farms, and businesses. They were herded like cattle, (or worse) and deprived of their freedom!! Many had frame houses with glass windows and locking doors that white families subsequently moved into! 
 

This was not just “allowed” by our government!  It was actually “instituted, enforced, and carried out” by that government!!

 

They were productive inhabitants with towns, organized local government, and even schools!!  
 

Not only that, they were at peace with their neighbors and posed little threat to the several states and the nation as a whole!!

 

It would be ridiculous to argue that their descendants are not more entitled to reparations than the descendants of slaves, given these facts!!

Again, I agree that they were treated badly. That being said, their descendents today were not, any more than the descendents of slaves were owned by plantation owners.

If anything, American Indians today  are already getting reparations. Tribal lands are NOT considered part of the United States, and so are not taxed. They receive money from the Government, they have casinos on their land, the proceeds of which every single member of the tribe receives a cut. 

Unfortunately, many of them lead unhealthy lifestyles which is never a good thing. But the unhealthy lifestyle goes back to the poor decisions I mentioned earlier. I'm not saying that they all do, but many do. 

My next door neighbors are Indians. Pasqui Yakis I believe. They have a decent house, they work to provide for themselves, just like I do. By their lifestyle, I don't think that they need reparations. 

"It would be ridiculous to argue that their descendants are not more entitled to reparations than the descendants of slaves, given these facts!!"

Again, I maintain that the descendants of slaves are NOT entitled to reparations.

[Eyesa Horg]

If Casinos are sharing with the whole tribe, it's minimal. I've worked in the Mashantucket Pequot Casino neighborhoods, it's just any other ghetto. Cars upside down, no grass, buildings in disrepair, etc.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

30 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

If Casinos are sharing with the whole tribe, it's minimal. I've worked in the Mashantucket Pequot Casino neighborhoods, it's just any other ghetto. Cars upside down, no grass, buildings in disrepair, etc.

A lot of that around here too. It may once again be a result of those bad decisions I mentioned. I may well be deeper than that. But I still don't think that giving them a handout will change anything, except to lighten the wallets of those who paid for it.