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Time to edumigate an old dog.


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First of all, let me say that I know very little about AR type rifles, and their construction.

Secondly I know very little about the fascination with the 9 mm chambering.

So just out of curiosity, let me ask a question for my own edification. 

 

Why would not a .357 Magnum be a more favorable choice?

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Rimmed cartridges do not feed very well in a box magazine. They have to go in on a slant, so that the rim of the second cartridge is in front of the rim of the first cartridge, and the rim of the third cartridge is in front of the rim of the second cartridge, etc. If you don't do this, the rims lock and you have a jam. That's why 22 pistol magazines are slanted.

 

You can, possibly, do about five rounds in a straight magazine. But longer than that you have to slant it. Or you have to curve it.

 

Smith & Wesson used to make a target pistol chambered in 38 Special wadcutter. The magazine only held five rounds. That was the most they could get in it and have it feed reliably. If you want to have a box magazine that holds 30 or more cartridges and feeds reliably, you need rimless.

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Pretty much everything is chambered in 9mm these days because it's so cheap and available (relatively speaking). Most 1911s sold these days are 9mm, for example. There was a day when anyone who bought a 1911 in 9mm was laughed at. People love 9mm ARs because they  can be shot at the local indoor range as well. Plus you can shoot steel with them.

 

Personally I think the .357 Magnum is a better cartridge for most uses, but it's not cheap and you're not going to find it in a long gun unless it's a lever-action.

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Just a thought…

 

If you are debating on a 9mm “AR-15” based gun I highly recommend that you consider a Ruger PC Carbine. AR based pistol caliber carbines can be troublesome. 
 

I wish there was a .357 Magnum semiauto carbine as well. But like @Alpo said, the rimmed cartridges throw a wrench in the works. 

 


 

 

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1 hour ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

First of all, let me say that I know very little about AR type rifles, and their construction.

Secondly I know very little about the fascination with the 9 mm chambering.

So just out of curiosity, let me ask a question for my own edification. 

 

Why would not a .357 Magnum be a more favorable choice?

 

Because 9 mm was cheap and there was/is a lot of competitive shooting where a pistol caliber carbine is required.  A lot of the 9mm AR-15's use UZI magazines because they are reliable, easily found and fairly cheap.

 

For "serious" purposes I would pick the 10 mm for a pistol caliber carbine.  However if I had to carry the AR-15 for all around "serious" purposes I'd leave it in it's original chambering.  If you going to carry a rifle, use a rifle caliber.

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1 hour ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Pretty much everything is chambered in 9mm these days because it's so cheap and available (relatively speaking). Most 1911s sold these days are 9mm, for example. There was a day when anyone who bought a 1911 in 9mm was laughed at. People love 9mm ARs because they  can be shot at the local indoor range as well. Plus you can shoot steel with them.

 

Personally I think the .357 Magnum is a better cartridge for most uses, but it's not cheap and you're not going to find it in a long gun unless it's a lever-action.

Really?  In my entire life I've only seen a couple of dozen 1911s in 9m, and even fewer are in  .39 Super auto (comparable to .357).  Most I've seen, and still do see, are .45 acp....and that suits me just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Forty Rod SASS 3935
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49 minutes ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Really?  In my entire life I've only seen a couple of dozen 1911s in 9m, and even fewer are in  .39 Super auto (comparable to .357).  Most I've seen, and still do see, are .45 acp....and that suits me just fine.

 

Yes it's true. I forget where I read it (I *think* Wilson Combat's YT channel), but sales of 9mm 1911s are now ahead of the .45 versions. I don't see many 1911s in gun shops nowadays, at least not around here, but when I do I always have to check to see it's actually a .45 and not a 9mm. I never had to do that in the past.

 

Again, we are now living in a 9mm and 5.56 world. They are by far the cheapest calibers to shoot (aside from .22LR), thanks to all the production over-runs from government contracts. As a matter of fact I watched another YT channel that said that for the next year or so the ammo manufacturers are going to concentrate on NATO-standard calibers and push the oddballs aside in the meantime. So probably no .44 Special or .38 Long Colt for the foreseeable future.

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2 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

The 357 was designed for a revolver platform. The 9mm for a semi-auto. 
 

After that the debate becomes quite emotional. 
 

But why would I rather have a date with MaryAnne vs Ginger?

 

MaryAnne ......... 'cause she could cook  :wub:

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Could she really? Most of what I recall her serving was either banana cream or coconut cream pie. Not really cooking.

 

I would still pick her over Ginger. She's nice. Ginger is snooty.

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3 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

First of all, let me say that I know very little about AR type rifles, and their construction.

Secondly I know very little about the fascination with the 9 mm chambering.

So just out of curiosity, let me ask a question for my own edification. 

 

Why would not a .357 Magnum be a more favorable choice?

Their called M1 carbines!;)

 

IMG_20210608_202220120.jpg

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4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Just a thought…

 

If you are debating on a 9mm “AR-15” based gun I highly recommend that you consider a Ruger PC Carbine. AR based pistol caliber carbines can be troublesome. 
 

I wish there was a .357 Magnum semiauto carbine as well. But like @Alpo said, the rimmed cartridges throw a wrench in the works. 

 


 

 

Uses Ruger or Glock magazines, easy to clean, accurate enough out to 200 yards with my cheap red dot (strike fire), no recoil to speak of, sort of adaptable to left handers as far as controls go. I use one in our Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) matches and it is a hoot.

When I bought mine there was supposed to be a 45ACP version in the pipeline but have never seen one.

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

Edited by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life
flags ran together arggggg!
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Okay, first off the AR platform is wonderfully easy and pleasant to shoot in 223. Light, handy and no recoil. Extremely LOUD in the shorter barreled versions, even with ear protection, it will rattle your fillings firing one indoors. I put a linear comp on mine, doesn't affect the [non-existent] recoil but does direct the blast downrange making you much more popular on the range. Easy, peasy to maintain and work on. Most do not like steel cased ammo. The 9mm ones are easy to shoot with almost zero recoil and you do get some more velocity with some ammunition, but not all, as most 9 is designed to work best in a 5" or less barrel. At ranges under 50 yards the 357 or 44 will deliver more energy than a 223 due to the heavier bullets.

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My PCC is  a Beretta CX4 in .45 ACP.  It's light, easy to handle, and very accurate.  It was also made in 9 mm, but for what purpose I don't know. ;)

 

Also, unlike an AR, it's legal to sell in MA

 

LL

 

 

download.jpg

Edited by Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438
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One of the ugliest guns made today, but flat out works is the Hi Point 45 carbine. Those things eat anything, run forever and would make a great house gun.

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While I trained with the M16 A1 and A2, and currently own a S&W M+P Sport AR, I don't get trying to make it work in pistol calibers.

But let's not forget the cheapest thing out there, Hi Point.

Despite being cheap, they seem to work. They're available in 9mm and .45ACP. They have hi cap aftermarket magazines available, as well as other aftermarket options.

The Ruger PC can use several different types of magazines, (Ruger, Glock), but Hi Point magazines seem cheap enough, too. I recently saw a youtube video where somebody was testing aftermarket magazines for his Hi Point, and they worked flawlessly.

If I were really looking for a PC Carbine, I would definitely check them out.

 

(DeaconCK added his response while I was doing the same).:D

Edited by Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770
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I like my .45acp hi point carbine, doesn't the PMR30 use a box mag with 30 rounds of 22wmr alternating rim space?

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3 hours ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Uses Ruger or Glock magazines, easy to clean, accurate enough out to 200 yards with my cheap red dot (strike fire), no recoil to speak of, sort of adaptable to left handers as far as controls go. I use one in our Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) matches and it is a hoot.

When I bought mine there was supposed to be a 45ACP version in the pipeline but have never seen one.

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

I put an Odin Works “Atlas 9” compensator on mine (shown in the photo above). It reduces muzzle rise and does reduce recoil a bit. You can’t  do much about that tungsten block slamming back and forth but an MCARBO buffer pad helps as well. ;)

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2 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

My PCC is  a Beretta CX4 in .45 ACP.  It's light, easy to handle, and very accurate.  It was also made in 9 mm, but for what purpose I don't know. ;)

 

Also, unlike an AR, it's legal to sell in MA

 

LL

 

 

download.jpg

Reminds me of the guns in Planet of the Apes. :D

Does that buttstock have a storage compartment?

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5 hours ago, Michigan Slim said:

I would like an AR.45ACP though. 

CMMG makes an AR in 45ACP.  Their patented bolt design, "Radial Delayed Blowback" results in a lighter recoil spring.  Other pistol caliber AR's are blowback actions which uses bolt mass & heavy recoil spring to delay bolt opening until chamber pressure has dropped to a safe level.  CMMG are high end AR's.

5 hours ago, Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 said:

 Mr. Thompson already did the .45ACP version .......   :)

VERY HEAVY & expensive.

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Should our rights be restored and I don't have to beg permission and pay the equivalent of a poll tax, the Kris. 45 acp subgun is a very hot little number I would love to put in my range bag.

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If you're going to go pistol caliber carbine then do it right!  :P

 

ATF approved semi auto conversion of the Suomi M-31 Finnish sub-machine gun.   Takes 70 round drums or 36 round stick magazines, very reliable, more accurate than I expected.  A tad heavy at about 15 pounds with a full drum, but it kicks like a .22 LR.

28135085_2.jpg

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