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Just spitballing EOT shooter limit


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If the parking is what is limiting EOT to 500, there will be a lot of the shooters traveling together in 1 vehicle, I know of several that are 3 to a vehicle, could there be a way of getting the current waiting in the shoot. Parking passes of some type....

     There may be other issues limiting to 500 but I sure would like to see this other group get in.

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Might be a covid limit.

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Range space, parking space, covid limits, understanding and helpful neighbor's, county board of health, other county limitations. Not being in the middle of BFE....... Pick two. 

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I was asking Ruthless Ruby about it and this is the reply I received.

 

Null N Void,

 

The criteria to ensure fairness is that everything was put in the order of the time it came in where is be from an email or online!

 

Parking isn’t as much of an issue and ensuring we don’t have posse’s too big for the bays and posse stacking on up on each other. We will have plenty of parking for  folks along with camping!

 

Best,

 

Ruby Ruthless

SASS Club Administrator

Single Action Shooting Society

ruby@sassnet.com

Office:(505)-843-1320

 

I suggested that with the sun going down after 9 at that time of year, would it be possible to space the posses out so that stacking would not be an issue.   I realize it might cut into some of the evening entertainment time, but I'd rather shoot and have more shooters.

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First let me say that I am not trying to criticize the host club or SASS, just throwing an idea out, as the OP stated, "spitballing". 500 shooters. 3 flights, with 12 posse's each flight. 500/36 is 14 shooters per posse. Increase that to 700 shooters gives you 20 per posse, a very manageable number. These extra shooters would add about 4 minutes each per stage, so add about 1 1/2 hours per flight or 4 1/2 hours per day. As for posse's stacking up you avoid that by have stages that more or less will be run in the same amount of time. Of course there will always be exceptions, but those exceptions will exist whether there are 14 or 20 shooters per posse.

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1 hour ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

500 shooters. 3 flights, with 12 posse's each flight. 500/36 is 14 shooters per posse

Did you read the part where Ruby said, Bay size is a limiting factor? EOT and WR had deep wide bays. Plenty of room for 20 shooters to park carts and get around each other.

At this point ya'll need to accept what the local club and SASS have determined to be a safe and comfortable amount of shooters.

Armchair math and speculation will still leave the capacity at 500.

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Did you read the part where Ruby said, Bay size is a limiting factor? EOT and WR had deep wide bays. Plenty of room for 20 shooters to park carts and get around each other.

At this point ya'll need to accept what the local club and SASS have determined to be a safe and comfortable amount of shooters.

Armchair math and speculation will still leave the capacity at 500.

:wub:

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No one is denigrating the work that the people organizing EOT are doing.  We just don't have all the information.   The range or the state may have made a hard limit.  We don't know.  If that's the reason for a hard limit, so be it.

 

I looked at the videos of the range.  They look wide enough to me.  I wouldn't bother me to be a bit crowded if it allows shooters who would never be able to go west to shoot in the east.

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SASS, Ruby, replied to Null N. Void.  Why can't the answer be accepted? 

13 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

We just don't have all the information

The information is, SASS has set a 500 shooter limit. Why does SASS or the host range owe anyone anything other than what Ruby said? Makes it sound like there's a conspiracy to restrict shooters.

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Wow....No conspiracy theories about limiting shooters, just a simple innocent question about parking being a limiting factor, and maybe being able to squeeze in a few more shooters. Everyone is doing an outstanding job to make this happen

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People just want to shoot and they're trying to figure out a way to get more into the match.  Certainly understandable, but I will be surprised if SASS and the Paradise Pass Regulators didn't look at this from pretty much every angle before they came up with the 500 limit.  I wish there was enough daylight to run four waves.  I for one would have no problem being on a really early or really late wave if it meant we got another 160 shooters in. c

 

I hope this is a light bulb moment for SASS with respect to EOT.  In 2019, there were 565 shooters, in 2018 there were 616, in 2017 there were 600.

 

In 2021 it looks like about 560 people signed up, or tried to within 2 hours.

 

Rotate EOT from East to West every other year!  People in both areas, knowing that EOT only occurs every other year in their area, will flock to the match.  I bet an alternating EOT would draw 750+ shooters every year, maybe more.   I wonder how many people aren't on the waiting list, but tried to get registered, another 50, another 100?  How many more would sign up between now and June if they could?

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I'll give you a reason for the capacity cap at 500. Last annual match at this location was 2019 and had 186 shooters. To go from 186 to 500 is a hell of a leap in organization, people, and expense.

That math was approximately 15 shooters per stage shooting for 12 bays and was probably shot over 2 days.

EOT is 3 days, 3 flights.

The Paradise Pass Regulators are taking on a huge responsibility trying to make this leap.

To ask them to go to 700 would be, well just wrong.

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

People just want to shoot and they're trying to figure out a way to get more into the match.  Certainly understandable, but I will be surprised if SASS and the Paradise Pass Regulators didn't look at this from pretty much every angle before they came up with the 500 limit.  I wish there was enough daylight to run four waves.  I for one would have no problem being on a really early or really late wave if it meant we got another 160 shooters in. c

 

I hope this is a light bulb moment for SASS with respect to EOT.  In 2019, there were 565 shooters, in 2018 there were 616, in 2017 there were 600.

 

In 2021 it looks like about 560 people signed up, or tried to within 2 hours.

 

Rotate EOT from East to West every other year!  People in both areas, knowing that EOT only occurs every other year in their area, will flock to the match.  I bet an alternating EOT would draw 750+ shooters every year, maybe more.   I wonder how many people aren't on the waiting list, but tried to get registered, another 50, another 100?  How many more would sign up between now and June if they could?

I like the idea of rotating a championship match from east to west. Not sure how practical that is but here is my reasoning.

Ben Avery East campground from my door in Grand Junction CO = 549 miles one way, or put another way 1,098 miles round trip. At 10mpg with a fifth wheel about 110 gallons of diesel round trip and one day drive each way.

Paradise Pass IN from my door in Grand Junction CO = 1,249 miles one way, or put another way 2,498  miles round trip. At 10 mpg with a fifth wheel about 250 gallons of diesel round trip and two day drive each way.

Now the logistics are reversed for many who have not made the trip in the past.

This is what our east coast pards have dealt with for years in deciding to come west and many have not attended SASS championships simply because of the cost and logistics. It seems fair that if we ask them to face up to these realities turnabout is fair play.

Had this been a "normal" year (no covid, lockdowns, masking, partial employment etc) I would have been on the registration line within the first second of opening. I suspect many others would have done the same. But sharing an opportunity to participate in a championship match with our east coast pards seems the fair thing to do, given how many of them have put off the trip in the past.

Best of luck to all EOT participants

Thanks Paradise Pass for taking on this huge undertaking

Congratulations in advance to all our Future World Champions

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

Edited by Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life
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I could be dead wrong, but, I believe that Deuce Stevens is a co-match director of EoT. He is also affiliated with Paradise Pass. If I am correct, that would mean that he has a very good idea of what a workable number of shooters is.

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Running a match the size of EOT is a monumental task.  There is a learning curve on running a match with 500 shooters.  Lots of planning a coordination goes on behind the scenes that most of us take for granted.  While I would love to see 700 shooters, I suspect Paradise Pass is wise not to bite off more than they can chew.  Food venders, posse sizes, stage designs, banquet, weather, volunteers, parking, awards, and the list goes on and on.  Some things may not go so smoothly the 1st time out.  It's a learning curve and few have any experience running a match this large.  I for one, am just grateful to be able to go this year.  I'll be flexible and just enjoy the ride.

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Okay, consider 500 entrants, probably at least 1/2 will have another person with them who are not shooting, plus support staff. You are talking 800+ people to herd around, feed, provide bathroom facilities etc. Good luck to all! Hope they make it a huge success!

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On 2/13/2021 at 11:37 PM, DeaconKC said:

Okay, consider 500 entrants, probably at least 1/2 will have another person with them who are not shooting, plus support staff. You are talking 800+ people to herd around, feed, provide bathroom facilities etc. Good luck to all! Hope they make it a huge success!

 

Plus you have to add in all the vendors and the space they take up. This is going to be a EOT production. EOT takes up allot of space. I have heard that they are even bringing in the Longhorn Bar.

If a similar situation comes up in the future, with all the second guessing and complaining that's going on around this shoot, other clubs will probably say it's not worth the hassle and let the World Championships be cancelled again.

Luckily for me, and with allot of panic trying to register, I got in. This will be my first EOT whether it was in NM or IN. I'm so excited I'm gonna bust.

 

So thank you Misty, Ruby & Angela, Paradise Pass Regulators and the crew, Deuce & Lassiter for making this happen. 

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14 minutes ago, Ya Big Tree said:

 

Plus you have to add in all the vendors and the space they take up. This is going to be a EOT production. EOT takes up allot of space. I have heard that they are even bringing in the Longhorn Bar.

If a similar situation comes up in the future, with all the second guessing and complaining that's going on around this shoot, other clubs will probably say it's not worth the hassle and let the World Championships be cancelled again.

Luckily for me, and with allot of panic trying to register, I got in. This will be my first EOT whether it was in NM or IN. I'm so excited I'm gonna bust.

 

So thank you Misty, Ruby & Angela, Paradise Pass Regulators and the crew, Deuce & Lassiter for making this happen. 

Takes a lot of planning, work, volunteers, space, volunteers, target choices, volunteers, infrastructure around the venue (IE: hotel, RV, food, airport, gas stations, grocery/ect)

Soooo much to think about!!!

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33 minutes ago, Ya Big Tree said:

complaining that's going on around this shoot

Please point out the complaining on this thread on any other on the SASS wire.

 

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Howdy All,

 

Let me shed some light on the decisions made.

With the current status of restrictions in New Mexico, it was not practical to invest in non-refundable deposits and contracts to

start planning EOT this year at FR since it was almost imposable that the state would allow it to take place.

 Misty decided to host EOT at Paradise Pass in Indiana because;

Our restrictions appear to be much lighter

Our Governor is very pro business and is working hard to balance this with the virus restrictions

We are a privately owned property so there is no "board" or governing body to restrict the event

We are 35+ acres mainly dedicated to SASS shooting

 

This is not an issue of number we can handle, we have the parking and the stage layout to facilitate more. 

But, at 500 shooters we are;

Staying within bounds of an increased virus level if it went back the other way in the next couple months (unless it went to complete shutdown)

500 shooters is the perfect comfort number for our range, and we would rather give 500 people a perfect event then 800 a "just ok event"

We have a full time business ( Two Bear Arms Gun Shop) on the property and have to accommodate for all of our customers to still be coming 

into the shop.

So with 500 shooters,+ guests, +vendors, +their guests,+ spectators and +volunteers we will be seeing 800-1,100 people per day in and out of here.

 

EOT was likely not going to happen this year and I applaud Misty for taking a leap of faith and  finding a solution that allows it to happen.

This will be a historic event, one that we (Paradise Pass) are honored to host under the direction of SASS.

We (the amazing Paradise Pass Crew)will do everything in our power to put on an excellent event.

 

Thank you to everyone for your support of SASS and our club as we work to put together a memorable event.

 

 

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On behalf of the Arizona Territorial Company of Rough Riders:

 

Thank you C.C.  Those that have not put on a match of this magnitude will never understand what all goes into such an undertaking. You are all to be commended and admired for your courage and your effort to tackle such an event given the circumstances and the short notice. 

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CC Top is on top of it ;) Reckon all at SASS thought this out in great detail. Hard work it must be. Kudos to all the planners and movers.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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