Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 238 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just acquired a set of ROA's. How many grains of FFFg (real black powder) do ya'll use? Thanks in advance for the information. Possum Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrel Cody 5,264 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Pictures or they don't exist I can't speak to ROA's but I've found it completely unnecessary to go mutch over 20gr FFFg in my 51's, 60s, or 1858's in .44. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I always used 20 grains FFFg. Former frontiersman World Champion Split Rail once told me he used 17 grains. A former Ohio frontiersman champion told me he used 15 grains An FBI agent who used to shoot with us always used 40 grains, as he shot guns for a living, and did not want to get used to light loads! --Dawg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 896 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 minutes ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: I always used 20 grains FFFg. Former frontiersman World Champion Split Rail once told me he used 17 grains. A former Ohio frontiersman champion told me he used 15 grains An FBI agent who used to shoot with us always used 40 grains, as he shot guns for a living, and did not want to get used to light loads! --Dawg Slix-Ram allows shooting reduced loads without a filler. I use 15 grains for fixed targets and 30 grains for knockdowns. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 238 Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Here’s a picture of them. Also got Kirst conversion cylinders with them. Thank y’all. I’ll probably go with a 20 gr spout. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 238 Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 20 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: Slix-Ram allows shooting reduced loads without a filler. I use 15 grains for fixed targets and 30 grains for knockdowns. I may have to look into these. I plan on getting a loading stand if I can figure out who sells them. Already ordered a Polish capper too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three Foot Johnson 2,618 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I'd have to go look, but whatever gives me a full stroke of the ram. No fillers to mess with, and I get uniform compression on all cylinders. No need for more than that in this game and a pound of powder lasts longer. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 27 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said: I may have to look into these. I plan on getting a loading stand if I can figure out who sells them. Already ordered a Polish capper too. Good Evening: Are you looking for a cylinder loading stand, or a loading stand to hold the gun, while loading with the cylinder still on the gun? I have a custom cylinder loading stand that I bought off the Wire Classifieds several years ago, but have never used it. If you are interested, let me know, and I'll send some pics & a shipped price -- send me your zip code too. Thanks --Dawg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 896 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 48 minutes ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said: I may have to look into these. I plan on getting a loading stand if I can figure out who sells them. Already ordered a Polish capper too. My ROA loading stand was made by Traditions. Not sure if they still make one sized for ROAs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colorado Coffinmaker 3,578 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 PLUS ONE for Tyrell Cody and Prairie Dawg I personally like 17Gr 3f APP 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rambling Grey 1 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Hey Possum Try Powder inc. Nice looking revolvers. Rambling 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 238 Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 3 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: Good Evening: Are you looking for a cylinder loading stand, or a loading stand to hold the gun, while loading with the cylinder still on the gun? I have a custom cylinder loading stand that I bought off the Wire Classifieds several years ago, but have never used it. If you are interested, let me know, and I'll send some pics & a shipped price -- send me your zip code too. Thanks --Dawg Cylinder loading stand. Yes. Pics and price please. 70653 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tequila Shooter 1,659 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 RMC OXYOKE sells a loader for all 6 chambers at once. The base has a small pin, place your cylinder on the pin, charge each chamber you want to use, then screw all 6 seaters in at once. I don’t think it’s much faster than a single stage loader, for me I can charge all the chambers on the tool and get everything seated to the same depth. YMMV. As far as load my warthog is 25gr, my normal is 20gr. See you in a couple of weeks at DD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Warden Callaway 4,826 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Why so light a load? Do you use any filler? I thought it was best to end up with the ball as close to the top as possible. I bought this pair last month. They look unfired. I've been having too much fun playing with the Pietta 1860s. I've been loading them with a flask that is supposed to throw 30 grains but comes up short - more like 27 grains. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 1,481 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I know i'm likely to be the odd man out but I use my grandad's two fixed volume measures the one for .44/45 holds 37.7 grains by weight of Goex 3f... the one for .36 Holds 22 grains of the same powder ... I have never seen the need to use anything different than what he used back in the 1870s..... Jabez Cowboy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cemetery 315 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 14 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said: I've found it completely unnecessary to go mutch over 20gr FFFg I came from the school of anything less that 40g's ain't worth getting outta bed for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 minutes ago, Cemetery said: I came from the school of anything less that 40g's ain't worth getting outta bed for. I prefer NOT to go home with aching wrists. When I was young, I was much like that too. Now this arthritic body has fun without all that damaging stuff --Dawg 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eyesa Horg 1,765 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I've been using a 25 grn. spout on my 60"s w/2F real black. Seems OK, but I only shoot them in Plainsman side matches. Don't know if that's good,bad or indifferent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 42 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I use a 1cc scoop for mine. Plenty of smoke, no problems hitting the target. ( if I do my part lol) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Rick 760 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 25 gr IIRC. But, that did require loading the cylinder out of the gun. I used a Tower of Power. I'm all for people using however light or heavy a load they want as long as it's legal and doesn't damage targets. That said, there are certain shooters that I'd hand off the timer for so as not to subject myself to concussions that I didn't feel was necessary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irish ike, SASS #43615 1,264 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I use 18 grains of FFG in my 51's, 58's and ROA's. I had to buy shortened ram rods for the ROA's so the ball would compress the powder a tad. For the distances we shoot, no sense beating your hands to death. And I use 1/2 the powder. I put the same load in my cowboy brass when I shoot my conversions. That way the recoil is consistent between the two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cemetery 315 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: I prefer NOT to go home with aching wrists. When I was young, I was much like that too. Now this arthritic body has fun without all that damaging stuff --Dawg I flunked out of that school since I have since cut my loading in half. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cemetery 315 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said: Also got Kirst conversion cylinders with them. I got Kirsts a few years ago. Started using Cowboy 45 Special's with them. 18ish grains of APP and a 230g 45acp roundnose works well for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three Foot Johnson 2,618 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Those o' ya'll that are saying your XX grain measure/spout only throws XX grains, how do you know?? Are there check measures available? Are you measuring the diameter, taper, length, and doing the math, or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Warden Callaway 4,826 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 11 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Those o' ya'll that are saying your XX grain measure/spout only throws XX grains, how do you know?? Are there check measures available? Are you measuring the diameter, taper, length, and doing the math, or what? I have a couple of separate volume measures that I check against. https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/77950 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three Foot Johnson 2,618 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Without doing the math, how do you know which one is right? Actually, with black powder, a couple grains one way or the other doesn't matter one whit anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eyesa Horg 1,765 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 23 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Those o' ya'll that are saying your XX grain measure/spout only throws XX grains, how do you know?? Are there check measures available? Are you measuring the diameter, taper, length, and doing the math, or what? I have 2 of the adjustable measures for muzzleloader. I pour a few charges in each one and then adjust to see how much is in there. Both measures are of a different brand and age and measure the same. It's the easiest way to compare I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 29 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Those o' ya'll that are saying your XX grain measure/spout only throws XX grains, how do you know?? Are there check measures available? Are you measuring the diameter, taper, length, and doing the math, or what? The same way I measure charges out of my Dillon powder measure. I measure 10 spouts full of the powder into a container on my reloading scale, and see what the average is for that spout. Black powder weight in grains corresponds pretty well to it's volume in grains. And, as Three Foot Johnson pointed out, with BP, a few grains either way does not matter for the kind of shooting we do. There is an excellent article all BP shooters should read, called Unmasking the Blackpowder “Volumetric Grain” of Doom By Randy Wakeman Here is a link to the article https://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_volumetric.htm --Dawg 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three Foot Johnson 2,618 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Volume vs weight might be close with some brands of black or subs, but there is a LOT of variation between the extremes. These are all 9 grains by weight in 9mm cases, but danged if I remember what the powders were. Probably Swiss on the right - it's pretty dense. The grayish stuff in the middle... APP? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) BP weight & volume are reasonably close, but not for subs -- that's why you always measure subs by volume. An excerpt from the above-referenced article.... Ian McMurchy published actual weight of 100 gr. volumetric Goex FFg as 101.3 grains, 100 gr. volumetric Goex FFFg as 101.6 grains. (Page 81, Modern Muzzleloading For Today's Whitetails.) Mr. McMurchy didn’t stop there; Pyrodex Select (which is a very large granulation size) weighs in at 63.9 grains, Pyrodex RS at 72.5, Pryrodex P at 73.0, Pyrodex pellets at 74.2, Arco at 94.7, Clean Shot at 85.1, and Quick Shots at 65.5 grains of actual weight. The “Arco” cited is the old “Black Mag 2.” Moisture content & grain size are two factors that will affect the volume/weight near-equivalency, even when you are comparing BP from the same manufacturer. Again, CAS shooting, does not require much precision with the amount of BP. BP silhouettes do, so they probably measure powder charges by weight (I've never shot it, so I'm not really sure) The good news is that you can't overload when using black powder, because the pressures are low. Just make sure that your projectile is seated on the powder (no gap). This is true for both muzzleloaders & cartridge guns, as long as the gun is in good repair. It also matters not if you use Fg, FFg or FFFg. The velocity of the projectile will vary some, and you might need to adjust your sights, but no worries about safety. --Dawg Edited January 17 by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Wheeler 1,551 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 17 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said: I plan on getting a loading stand if I can figure out who sells them. Loading stands are great to use with C&B, and they really aren't that difficult to fabricate yourself... 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Warden Callaway 4,826 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) Here is the one that I knocked together out of a piece of eastern red cedar 2"x6" and two deck screws. Crude but works. Edited January 18 by Warden Callaway 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tequila Shooter 1,659 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 49 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Volume vs weight might be close with some brands of black or subs, but there is a LOT of variation between the extremes. These are all 9 grains by weight in 9mm cases, but danged if I remember what the powders were. Probably Swiss on the right - it's pretty dense. The grayish stuff in the middle... APP? I hope that this chart that Curt Rich put out can help you and others. BP CONVERSION SHEET And another one he has Revised Conversion Sheet 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 1,786 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 18 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Here is the one that I knocked together out of a piece of eastern read cedar 2"x6" and two deck screws. Crude but works. Hey Warden -- My old one is more crude than yours!! I made this years ago, when I first started out. Replaced it after a coupla years with a Powder Inc cylinder loader, and have never looked back. Now it's a "loaner" that I let newbies use when they need it. --Dawg 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J-BAR #18287 6,381 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I use a spout marked “18” (it throws 19 grains of 2F real bp by actual weight) most of the time in my ROAs. If I want to make a statement on a particular stage, difficult knockdowns, etc., I just throw 2 spouts of powder into each chamber. It’s nice to have options sometimes. ps: PS, beautiful revolvers, you’re gonna have fun!! Edited January 17 by J-BAR #18287 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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