Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 So I'm thinking I'd like to get a Sharps, maybe a CSharps or Pedersoli, can't justify the money for a Shiloh. 45-70 I could use smokeless if I wanted or 45-90 and just go black. I'd use it for long range cowboy shoots. I've never loaded or shot black before, but it does keep calling me. Am I going to regret the having to blow out the barrel after every shot? I know people say cleaning up after black is actually easier. Any words of wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Haha BCB, I've been craving an 1885 High Wall... yes, black. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Shiloh makes everything on their rifles, except for the wood. The wood comes from Missouri. .45-70 would be a good learning caliber. Don't go cheap on the sights. Soule type are the best. I shoot .45-70 and .45-90 Shiloh 74's I only load real BP and cast my own bullets. You should read over this forum and join up. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I say get the Shiloh. Yeah it’s a bit more, but if you’re not getting it only because it cost more, you’ll regret it and someday end up getting it anyway. This is something I know all too well. The best idea is to place that sharps order tomorrow. It’ll be a $250 deposit. Then see if you can find a fairly cheap used pedersoli or look into a csharps 1875. Use that rifle to cut your teeth with learning to develop a load. Then in 2years or so when the Shiloh is ready you can sell that rifle to someone like you looking to start and you’ll be a step ahead of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 For target work-I suggest a Shiloh #1 with SG stock. Pretty hard to beat MVA Soule sights w/Hadley eye-cup. https://shilohrifle.com/ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: For target work-I suggest a Shiloh #1 with SG stock. Pretty hard to beat MVA Soule sights w/Hadley eye-cup. https://shilohrifle.com/ OLG Don’t listen to Lumpy. Get a number 3, upgraded wood, and military stock. It’s so much prettier, and that’s what really matters haha. Can’t go wrong with the MVA sights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Don't listen to that kid in the corner..... You want the #1 for the pistol grip stock that helps in recoil-torque control and the cheek rest is oh so nice when you crank up the rear sight for long range. A #1 with a heavy 30" barrel is hard to beat on the range or in the field. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Don't listen to that kid in the corner..... You want the #1 for the pistol grip stock that helps in recoil-torque control and the cheek rest is oh so nice when you crank up the rear sight for long range. A #1 with a heavy 30" barrel is hard to beat on the range or in the field. OLG But it’s not as pretty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Don't bother listening to either of them... get a Long Range Express... Do you ever thing you might want to shoot something besides "long range" side matches at cowboy shoots. Find out about any rules that may affect the rifle specs you want to get. As shipped, my rifle came within <1 oz. of being over the weight limit for NRA BPCR. It's passed, every time I attended the Nationals... but I've held my breath when it t'was on the scale. It's a good thing I had them only build it with a 30" barrel, instead of the regular 34" that comes on the LRE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El diablo gringo Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Good morning, 45/70 is the perfect starter round for shooting longer ranges. That being said it will perform very well out to 1000 yards. You will get much more out of the round loading real BP versus smokeless. With BP you will not have to use a blow tube or clean between shots when doing cowboy long range 5 round speed side matches. Around my area most long range side matches are 5 shot sprints at 200 or 300 yards. If you have other questions feel free to pm me. Gringo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Six shots at around 300 yards at our club. Others are 100 to 150. Also fun. And a Pedersoli will do that just dandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 If you have deep pockets, go for the Shiloh, if not, a Pedersoli will fit your need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 My first Sharps was a Pedersoli in 45-70. It’s one of the few guns I regret selling, but it turned a good profit. It was a great shooter. Every bit as accurate as either of my Shilohs. 45-70 is a great cartridge for your first Sharps. Lots of data to draw from. Black powder is WAY more fun than the new dangled stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Juez Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I was in the same situation a couple years ago. Bought a new Pedersoli in 45-70 at Cabelas. It was on sale at the time, just under $1,000. Spent another $300 or so for a Lee Shaver soul sight. If money wasn't a concern I would have gone with a Shiloh. But at least for me money is a concern and the extra couple thousand dollars isn't something I could justify for a side-match rifle. I am very happy with the Pedersoli. I use black powder substitutes. Most side matches don't shoot more than 10 rounds. I don't blow down the barrel or clean between shots. I have shot matches on steel buffaloes out to 800 yards. I've placed in several, including a regional. Never had a concern that the Pedersoli wasn't good enough. Its still one of the nicest rifles I own. I would make sure you get a quality set of sights. Cleanup after is easy. I agree with what you have heard, that black powder cleanup is easier than smokeless. Luckily my wife only gets mildly annoyed when I use the bathtub to clean that long barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 And get yourself a copy of this book by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe. It will shorten your learning curve drastically. https://www.buffaloarms.com/black-powder-cartridge-reloading-primer-bokbpcrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeb Gray, #36839 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Glad to hear you are getting hooked on long range, Bob. Jackpine said to be on the lookout for a rifle for you. A Pedersoli or C. Sharps would suffice. Also a Highwall or Rolling Block will work if you're not totally sold on the Sharps style. I shoot black powder & have gone to wiping the bore after each shot. Wiping is more consistent than the blow tube. Temperature, humidity & your breath can vary where a wet patch doesn't. I run two Ballistol/water mix patches through the bore after each shot, retaining the second for the first wipe next shot. Fouling is kept soft & to a minimum. Cleanup is a snap with a vinegar Windex/water solution. Dry & lube the bore - done. Also, there is nothing wrong with the less expensive Pedersoli Soule tang or Lyman Globe front sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Long Range Cowboy shoots is sort of an oxymoron. The majority are 100 yard speed rifle shoots due to range limitations. Scored most hits in the least amount of time. I've been shooting a 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps for 12 years. If I do my job it will shoot as good or better than any Shiloh, C-Sharps etc. Pretty wood, bluing, engraving and the action have no affect on the accuracy of the gun. The barrel does. And Pedersoli uses high quality barrels. 45-70 offers up the best selection of bullets, brass, dies etc. And recoil is more acceptable. They will shoot out to whatever you have sights for. I shoot real BP and have never tried smokeless so I have nothing to offer there. Other than those that shoot both do say the recoil is less with BP. Invest in good sights and make sure you get the longest/tallest one the vendor makes. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Thanks for all the responses, I'm not new to cowboy long range, I've got a Highwall in 38-55 and a 94 Winchester in the same and I've done pretty well with them, using smokeless, just have an itch for a Sharps. When Quiqley Down Under came out I bought an IAB because I didn't know any better. We typically shoot out to 300 yds at most of the clubs/ranges, but shoot 500 meters at Winter Range , 575 yds at Enderlin and some unknown distance + or - 775 at Hell On Wheels and shoot 10 shots at all except HOW. I never thought about NRA BPCR, but that would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Long Range Cowboy shoots is sort of an oxymoron. The majority are 100 yard speed rifle shoots due to range limitations. Scored most hits in the least amount of time. I've been shooting a 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps for 12 years. If I do my job it will shoot as good or better than any Shiloh, C-Sharps etc. Pretty wood, bluing, engraving and the action have no affect on the accuracy of the gun. The barrel does. And Pedersoli uses high quality barrels. 45-70 offers up the best selection of bullets, brass, dies etc. And recoil is more acceptable. They will shoot out to whatever you have sights for. I shoot real BP and have never tried smokeless so I have nothing to offer there. Other than those that shoot both do say the recoil is less with BP. Invest in good sights and make sure you get the longest/tallest one the vendor makes. Ike I completely disagree with that statement. Everyone knows pretty guns shoot much better. If it weren't true, then everyone would have the exact same guns and not spend money on grips, engraving, wood upgrades, case coloring or nickel finishes, etc. That's my story and I am sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I'm enjoying m Shiloh Sharps 45-70. MVA sights. So far have only shot smokeless (5744 powder) but figure to try BP at some point. I gt lucky and bought a 2nd hand but never fired 2002 model for less than a new Pedersoli would have cost. Very nice rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: Haha BCB, I've been craving an 1885 High Wall... yes, black. lol They are very nice…From the 70 to the 120….And one in the middle… Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hooker Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said: So I'm thinking I'd like to get a Sharps, maybe a CSharps or Pedersoli, can't justify the money for a Shiloh. 45-70 I could use smokeless if I wanted or 45-90 and just go black. I'd use it for long range cowboy shoots. I've never loaded or shot black before, but it does keep calling me. Am I going to regret the having to blow out the barrel after every shot? I know people say cleaning up after black is actually easier. Any words of wisdom? See the remarks, esp. by Driftwood Johnson, in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 If you don't mind the recoil get the 45-70. I have a Shilo #1 in 45-70. Love the Rifle. The older I get the more recoil sensitive it seems I am getting. If you are going to use it for target shooting only I would get a 40-65 . It will do everything the 45-70 will do. A lot less shoulder pain. My 45-70 load is 73 grs of Swiss 1 1/2 with a .060 vegetable wad with a 500 gr Bullet. Its a thumper very accurate thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: If you don't mind the recoil get the 45-70. I have a Shilo #1 in 45-70. Love the Rifle. The older I get the more recoil sensitive it seems I am getting. If you are going to use it for target shooting only I would get a 40-65 . It will do everything the 45-70 will do. A lot less shoulder pain. My 45-70 load is 73 grs of Swiss 1 1/2 with a .060 vegetable wad with a 500 gr Bullet. Its a thumper very accurate thou. You should give one of these a try. They really work...... http://www.shootersfriend.com/ I do not feel the .40-65 is a good choice for a newbie BPCR shooter. I have seen them to be very load picky....... .45-70 is far more forgiving in the learning curve. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: You should give one of these a try. They really work...... http://www.shootersfriend.com/ I do not feel the .40-65 is a good choice for a newbie BPCR shooter. I have seen them to be very load picky....... .45-70 is far more forgiving in the learning curve. OLG Again, what is up with you and making your Shiloh ugly? By the way, do you have the pink one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said: Again, what is up with you and making your Shiloh ugly? By the way, do you have the pink one? It's a slip on recoil pad-and YES, I do use the pink one. That way, no one wants to borrow it........ You really don't want to see the case we carry our Sharps in either.............. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 When I talked to Shiloh awhile back, they recommended getting a 30 in barrel that was half round to stay under weight. Is that recommended? Going to order my rifle soon. How can you make sure you are under weight with a 45-70? Thanks BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said: When I talked to Shiloh awhile back, they recommended getting a 30 in barrel that was half round to stay under weight. Is that recommended? Going to order my rifle soon. How can you make sure you are under weight with a 45-70? Thanks BB Mine is full octagon 30” barrel and plenty of weight to spare. When you order, let them know the weight is a priority, they’ll make it happen. There are other ways to make weight, in particular with different wood density. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 7 hours ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said: When I talked to Shiloh awhile back, they recommended getting a 30 in barrel that was half round to stay under weight. Is that recommended? Going to order my rifle soon. How can you make sure you are under weight with a 45-70? Thanks BB Listen to Shiloh. When you call, ask for Kirk or Lucinda. https://shilohrifle.com/ Call and ask for a catalog.......... The catalog has lots of tips to make sure the rifle will make weight. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Mine is a full octagon, but in a 40 caliber... leaves a bit more metal in the barrel that a .45. I also got XXXFancy Walnut... a little more weight there. But... I bought my rifle for hunting, not for competition, I just lucked in the 1 oz below max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 The NRA rules limit you to under 15 lbs, are your guns that heavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said: The NRA rules limit you to under 15 lbs, are your guns that heavy? NRA BPCR Silhouette only allows: Quote 3.4 Black Powder Cartridge Rifle - A hunting or military style rifle, single shot, originally made for black powder cartridges, of United States manufacture prior to 1896 and being typical of the era. Replicas thereof, regardless of origin of manufacture, are permitted. Hammer must be exposed. If replacement barrels, stocks, or other parts are used, they must be as original. No Schuetzen-style rifles permitted. One rifle will be used during all phases of the match. Examples of permissible rifles are: Ballard, Buck, Bullard, Cole, Farrow, Maynard, Peabody, Redfield, Remington Hepburn, Remington Rolling Block, Sharps, Springfield Trapdoor, Stevens Tip-up, Stevens No. 44, Wesson Falling Block, Wesson (hinged barrel), Whitney Phoenix, Whitney Rolling Block, Winchester 1885, and Wurfflein. While the following single shot actions may not conform to the exact criteria of Rule 3.4, they are allowed because they conform to the spirit of the competition in form and function, provided the firearms conform to all other configurations of Rule 3.4: Browning Model 1878, Browning Model 1885, C. Sharps ‘75, Falling Block Works, Stevens 44 1/2 and Wickliff ‘76. Replicas other than exact reproductions of pre-1896 Black Powder actions as described above and shooting equipment as described herein, must be passed by the Silhouette Committee with the advice of the Black Powder Committee. It shall be the competitor’s responsibility to provide any documentation which may be required to establish that all Black Powder Cartridge Rifle equipment conforms to these rules.(a) Maximum weight 12 pounds, 2 ounces. Emphasis added. NRA Black Powder "Target" rifles are a whole 'nuther animal. Doesn't require breechoading rifles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Well I have two .38-55s and a .45-70 ,,, but for 95% of my longrange use I choose my .40-65 Uberti Highwall .... My .40-65 likes to have well made bullets, properly cast with-out voids or damaged bases ,,,, but as to loads it seems to like about ANY suitable powder just fine ... I use a 370 grain spritzer ( Bullet Barn ) or cast my own from a "Lyman " mould that casts a 420 grain RNFP. Bullet ... I have used this rifle out past the 1,300 yard mark .... When I get serious about reaching out a touching things away out there I default to the .40-65 .... For fun shooting out to 300 + yards , and introducing kids and Ladies to longrange I have a lowwall in .38-40... 6 ladies and a 10, 11 and 13 kid fired 3 rounds each at 300 yards with this rifle with only one miss ...in total ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Griff said: NRA BPCR Silhouette only allows: Emphasis added. NRA Black Powder "Target" rifles are a whole 'nuther animal. Doesn't require breechoading rifles... AH! My bad, this what I saw in a quick search. Thanks. (b) The rifl e, including all attachments such as, but not limited to slings and sights, shall not weigh more than 15 pounds unloaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 47 minutes ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said: AH! My bad, this what I saw in a quick search. Thanks. (b) The rifl e, including all attachments such as, but not limited to slings and sights, shall not weigh more than 15 pounds unloaded Yep, that's the rule for Black Powder "Target" rifle competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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