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1 hour ago, Juiceharp Jen said:

On a serious note, other sports in which I’ve competed have sanctioned and nonsanctioned competitions/tournaments.  If it is sanctioned, the local event holder is required to apply the rules of the sanctioning organization, and competitors can go over the head of the local event holder for a ruling.  Does SASS work that way at all?  If so, how can you tell if the event is sanctioned?

 

I didn't see a reply to this message so here's my understanding:

 

SASS sanctioned matches that must abide all SASS Rules are:

State Championship
Regional Championship

Winter Range (US Championship)

End of Trail (World Championship)

 

Club level matches are at the discretion of the club and match directors, but encouraged to use SASS defaults to keep consistency for visiting members.

 

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And that's the key (your last statement). We should know exactly what the rule is, but if we beat up newbies, they won't come back.

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4 minutes ago, Red Eye Jim said:

...

Club level matches are at the discretion of the club and match directors, but encouraged to use SASS defaults to keep consistency for visiting members.

 

Quote

 

SASS® Affiliated Club Requirements

Conduct its matches in compliance with the SASS® Shooters handbooks
• Have a regularly scheduled shooting program
• Respect all SASS® aliases and shooter numbers
• Regularly provide SASS® with copies of club newsletters and/or bulletins
• Provide a fully completed SASS® Affiliate Club registration form and applicable fees annually
• Provide Proof of $1,000,000 public liability insurance for the coming year, naming SASS® as additionally insured (US organizations only)

 

SOURCE

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21 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Depends on how you apply the statement on pg 28...

 

I've already attempted to explain that statement in the context of the other rules in that section (back on page 4)

...and why it does NOT apply to the OP scenario.

 


 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
fix spelling

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1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

I've already attempted to explain that statement in the context of the other rules in that section (back on page 4)

...and why it does NOT apply to the OP scenario.

I think where it does and does NOT apply should be clear in the statement itself.

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I get what you’ve previously stated. But if you read the ammunition conventions and not the belts/bandoliers section, and I’m sure many have, it leads you to believe you CAN stage ammo that you’ve brought to the line. The other rules in that section deal with dropped ammo, not staged. And I think it DOES apply to the OP. He did bring the ammo to the line legally, then staged it then retrieved it safely. But I still think page 28 conflicts with page 3. And since staging ammo does not bring an advantage... allow it. Per the printed rules. 

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5 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

If you despise the handbook so much why not rewrite it in a way that makes sense to you and submit it to the ROC?

 

Otherwise stop insulting all the folks that put in a lot of their own time to give us a reasonably good set of rules.

And what percentage of likelihood would you give that they would be even slightly receptive. Same crowd that yells at junior shooters for not remaining in costume, randomly and rudely outlaws leather of disabled shooters at a major matches causing a DQ, and doesn't trust its shooters to shoot on the move. 

As far as insulting anyone, I think you're being a bit sensitive, but that's par for the course. You even put a qualifier on your own statement "reasonably" good set of rules. 

4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I already asked him to do that... Haven't seen even a rough draft yet.

 

:lol:

I'd ask you to sponsor my rough draft but nobody cares what you think either. Privately held game. I'm working on it. Slowly. Not because it's difficult, but because I'm not even close to retired and the discussion and resultant ruffled feathers is far more entertaining.

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

What's that say'n--"All hat, and no cattle"..........:lol::rolleyes:

OLG

Mysterious barks from under the porch.

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1 hour ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

And what percentage of likelihood would you give that they would be even slightly receptive. Same crowd that yells at junior shooters for not remaining in costume, randomly and rudely outlaws leather of disabled shooters at a major matches causing a DQ, and doesn't trust its shooters to shoot on the move. 

As far as insulting anyone, I think you're being a bit sensitive, but that's par for the course. You even put a qualifier on your own statement "reasonably" good set of rules. 

I'd ask you to sponsor my rough draft but nobody cares what you think either. Privately held game. I'm working on it. Slowly. Not because it's difficult, but because I'm not even close to retired and the discussion and resultant ruffled feathers is far more entertaining.

Mysterious barks from under the porch.

Ya know, it's poor form to insult folks that have been contributing to this game for many years.

 

I think the jest of the comments are motivated by folks that see nothing but criticism for you.

 

Nothing personal...

 

Phantom

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Reading through the Ammunition Conventions:

  • Any ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of reloading any firearm during a stage or ejected from any firearm or alternately, must be replaced from the shooters person or other area as allowed by stage description.  (There has been no mention of stage instructions allowing the staging of ammo).
  • Dropped rounds or rounds safely placed onto a prop from their original loading area may be recovered and used. In any case of recovery of a dropped or safely placed round must be performed carefully as to not create a loss of muzzle control. (Again - There has been no mention of stage instructions allowing the staging of ammo).
  • Illegally acquired ammunition is any ammunition not carried to the line and/or staged by the shooter in an approved manner.  (There has been no mention of stage instructions allowing the staging of ammo).

So, if extra ammo being staged is not specifically written into the stage instructions, then the reload must come off of the shooters person. A jacket hanging over to the side is not on my person.  He gets a miss for each target hit with the ammo acquired from the jacket.

 

That's my thoughts,

Barry Sloe

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Barry Sloe said:

 

 

Edited by Tennessee williams
Yep, Im a dummy.

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Barry Sloe thats exactly right. Them's the rules and all shooters need to play by them. Now if the shooter was a newbie, you give him the penalty but you take him aside and explain why the penalty was applied. And offer to go over the rule books with them and maybe attend an RO class.

What the weather is, or if it didn't provide an advantage to the shooter is meaningless. The shooter leaves the local range and goes to a "HIGHER" authority match, and gets dinged for something he wasn't dinged for at home.

And IMHO its a miss and a P.  Illegally acquired ammo is a "P".

IKe

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615

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1 minute ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Barry Sloe thats exactly right. Them's the rules and all shooters need to play by them. Now if the shooter was a newbie, you give him the penalty but you take him aside and explain why the penalty was applied. And offer to go over the rule books with them and maybe attend an RO class.

What the weather is, or if it didn't provide an advantage to the shooter is meaningless. The shooter leaves the local range and goes to a "HIGHER" authority match, and gets dinged for something he wasn't dinged for at home.

IKe

You want consistency :lol::lol:

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59 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Barry Sloe thats exactly right. Them's the rules and all shooters need to play by them. Now if the shooter was a newbie, you give him the penalty but you take him aside and explain why the penalty was applied. And offer to go over the rule books with them and maybe attend an RO class.

What the weather is, or if it didn't provide an advantage to the shooter is meaningless. The shooter leaves the local range and goes to a "HIGHER" authority match, and gets dinged for something he wasn't dinged for at home.

IKe

Oh please.

 

If it's a cold-ass winter monthly and a few folks are braving it, ya tell the shooter that he's got penalties but yer waving them.

 

Phantom

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Irish Ike - I agree with you.  When we make mistakes we have to suck up the penalties, but hopefully learn from them also.  That's in life and shooting.

Phantom - I'll be shooting in Texas in a few months and since I'll be new to Texas I hope that you'll waive any penalties that may be thrown my direction.

 

BS

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26 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

And what percentage of likelihood would you give that they would be even slightly receptive. Same crowd that yells at junior shooters for not remaining in costume, randomly and rudely outlaws leather of disabled shooters at a major matches causing a DQ, and doesn't trust its shooters to shoot on the move. 

As far as insulting anyone, I think you're being a bit sensitive, but that's par for the course. You even put a qualifier on your own statement "reasonably" good set of rules. 

I'd ask you to sponsor my rough draft but nobody cares what you think either. Privately held game. I'm working on it. Slowly. Not because it's difficult, but because I'm not even close to retired and the discussion and resultant ruffled feathers is far more entertaining.

Mysterious barks from under the porch.

Sounds like an awful crowd, I can't imagine why you associate with such rude ignorant people.  :huh:

 

I'm sure they don't know how lucky they are to have the benefit of your wisdom and the pleasure of your company. <_<

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15 minutes ago, Barry Sloe said:

 

Sorry Barry. Misread your statement.

 

Edited by Tennessee williams
Im a dummy, and cant read.

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1 hour ago, Barry Sloe said:

Irish Ike - I agree with you.  When we make mistakes we have to suck up the penalties, but hopefully learn from them also.  That's in life and shooting.

Phantom - I'll be shooting in Texas in a few months and since I'll be new to Texas I hope that you'll waive any penalties that may be thrown my direction.

 

BS

What is wrong with you guys????

 

If it's a bitterly cold miserable day with just a few brave soles and you need to pull a SG round out of a stage jacket, I won't call it <_<

 

PS: I'm primarily in Colorado...

 

Good Lord...

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Afternoon Phantom

Nothing in the OP was said about a "cold miserable day" or "few shooters". Colder temps with shooters wearing coats.

What OP didn't say was show they handled it. Did they make the shooter aware of the error or just let him slide without at least having him understand what he did was wrong!

Was it a learning moment or we just don't want to be hard asses?

Ike

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4 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Blast Masterson

My point is, anyone who makes a discretionary decision to not follow a rule effects the outcome for everyone.

2018 EOT top 5 shooters 180, 192, 194, 195, 196. Any lack of enforcement of a rule would have changed the outcome. A 10 second procedural, as should be applied here, would drop anyone out of contention for the top spots. If you don't enforce it for one, even tough they have no chance in hell of winning anything, you still do a disservice to everyone.

And by not notifying a shooter of an error you are effecting his understanding of the rules and the game.

Rules are made to be applied, not arbitrarily applied.

Ike

My point was: A 10 second P ain't close to the time to run around collecting shells from your coat in icy conditions in a monthly match. And AGAIN, this ain't EOT.

 

And, I am almost sure the shooter in question was well aware he was being non-complaint, but hell, it's cold outside...

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Afternoon Phantom

Nothing in the OP was said about a "cold miserable day" or "few shooters". Colder temps with shooters wearing coats.

What OP didn't say was show they handled it. Did they make the shooter aware of the error or just let him slide without at least having him understand what he did was wrong!

Was it a learning moment or we just don't want to be hard asses?

Ike

Seems irrelevant at this point in your argument...

 

Phantom

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He was PROBABLY doing it to be funny, but we have a hard time with humor, huh?

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1 minute ago, Blast Masterson said:

My point was: A 10 second P ain't close to the time to run around collecting shells from your coat in icy conditions in a monthly match. And AGAIN, this ain't EOT.

 

And, I am almost sure the shooter in question was well aware he was being non-complaint, but hell, it's cold outside...

And again it was a rule violation.

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I f you follow the letter of the book (and fix page 28), yes, it was. Beat em into submission!

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

And again it was a rule violation.

See what I mean?

 

;)

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4 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

And again it was a rule violation.

Prove it... Monthly match where everyone (except you) could care less...

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47 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

And what percentage of likelihood would you give that they would be even slightly receptive. 

 

I think if you went to them with a modicum of respect and gratitude for what they have given us then they might be receptive. If you go with the attitude that you have right now and tell them how much their current handbook sucks; well they'll likely tell you where to stick it.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

As far as insulting anyone, I think you're being a bit sensitive, but that's par for the course. You even put a qualifier on your own statement "reasonably" good set of rules. 

 

When you diminish and criticize the work that others do so that you may participate in something with a common set of rules, yes this IS insulting.

 

Reasonably good, yes. Is it perfect, no and the writers know that. Am I telling them it sucks, no.

 

 

 

If you're serious about a rewrite why not reach out to them and ask if you can form a committee to do that.  The committee that would communicate via Google Hangouts or something similar. Include some new shooters, some experienced shooters and a representative from the ROC. 

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Prove what. We all know it was "illegally acquired ammo". The discussion here is around cutting someone some slack even though they committed a rules infraction.

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3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Prove what. We all know it was "illegally acquired ammo". The discussion here is around cutting someone some slack even though they committed a rules infraction.

Are you talking EOT again or the monthly match in question?

 

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3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Prove what. We all know it was "illegally acquired ammo". The discussion here is around cutting someone some slack even though they committed a rules infraction.

 

Was it illegally acquired?

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4 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Prove what. We all know it was "illegally acquired ammo". The discussion here is around cutting someone some slack even though they committed a rules infraction.

No, we don't all know that.

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This or any match.  To paraphrase, 'all ammo must come from the body' not something you wore to the stage and then took off. The stage instructions did not say you could stage ammo. 1 miss and P.

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This thing has gone way off the rails...

 

(are we on page 8 yet??)

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